6GB HD under WB 3.1

manicx · 27 January 2004, 16:22

Which is the best way to see the >4GB partitions under WB3.1? I want to install SFS too. I knew that SFS cures the problem but I found that after a specific version it doesn't work and you need either OS3.9 with the boing ball patches or IDEFix... Any suggestions?

whiteb · 04 February 2004, 05:47

Quote:

Originally posted by manicx
Which is the best way to see the >4GB partitions under WB3.1? I want to install SFS too. I knew that SFS cures the problem but I found that after a specific version it doesn't work and you need either OS3.9 with the boing ball patches or IDEFix... Any suggestions?

Boing ball ?

HAHAHAHAHA /me rolls on the floor laughing.

boing bag.

jmmijo · 04 February 2004, 07:22

Quote:

Originally posted by whiteb

boing bag.

Well the first part was correct

Thing is this really should just be called an OS patch, that's what it is you know

Enverex · 04 February 2004, 10:34

Is SFS faster than FFS?

thomas · 04 February 2004, 12:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Enverex
Is SFS faster than FFS?

Certainly. SFS is much faster than FFS.

manicx · 12 July 2004, 09:58

So, I spend my while weekend trying to install the 6GB hard disk on a bog standard 3.1 Amiga.

I tried SFS 1.84 at first that is supposed to regognise HDs>4GB... Indeed I saw the full 6GBs in HDToolbox. I succesfully partitioned the Drive and made three partitions. The first was 100Mb, the second was 2 GBs and the third was the remaining one (<4GB). I formatted dh0, dh1 and everything was okay. After formatting dh2, the HD was messed up. Formatting the 3rd partition always caused me troubles.

Then I decided to use the latest release of SFS. As people said, it doesn't see a HD larger than 6GB. Well, you see it in HDToolbox, but if you set your HD to use all 6GB, the last partition that is in the +4GB area doesn't appear in the WB. Move the slider down and leave 2 GBs of unpartitioned space and there you are.

I then decided again to use 1.84 and leave 2GB of unpartitioned space. It works, the HD is formatted succesfully but you are missing the 2GBs... I wanted to try AFS, but I couldn't locate the documentation and didn't know the damn identifier... Hope to find it and try with it as well...

It seems to me that on a bog standard 3.1 A1200, I can't see HD > 4GB. I don't want to install OS3.9 + Boing Bags 1+ 2 since the Amiga only has 2 MBs of RAM and I don't want to end up with 800Kb of free memory. Well, even 4GBs are okay considering that I got this HD for free

!

ant512 · 12 July 2004, 10:47

You either need to install a patched scsi.device or enable "direct SCSI" in SFS in order to use large drives.

Patched SCSI devices are included with IDEFix and the EIDE'99 package. Direct SCSI only works in old versions of SFS (you might have the correct version, but can't be using the direct SCSI version). Alternatively, you can get the patched version of FFS from the Aminet, which has a direct SCSI option (search for "TD64").

At the moment, although the filesystem will happily use large drives, the SCSI driver is causing data from the end of the drive to get written over the start of the drive. The heirarchy looks like this:

Drive -> SCSI.device -> Filesystem -> HDToolBox

thomas · 12 July 2004, 11:05

You don't need any patches. Just use quick format. There is no need to use full format on a HDD, no matter if it is bigger than 4GB or not.

The Format program cannot look past the 4GB barrier, so you must not use full format for partitions above the 4GB limit. The same is true for other programs accessing the HDD directly, without DOS: DiskSalv, ReOrg, ShapeShifter, PC-Task etc. Never use one of these programs on a partition which has parts of it behind the 4GB limit.

Quote:

Drive -> SCSI.device -> Filesystem -> HDToolBox

No, the correct way is:

Drive -> scsi.device -> FileSystem -> DOS -> Application

and

Drive -> scsi.device -> HDToolbox
Drive -> scsi.device -> Format
Drive -> scsi.device -> DiskSalv etc.

The problem is the interface of scsi.device. The standard interface uses 32bit commands which can address up to 4GB. So if you need another interface to access the area above 4GB, all the programs have to be exchanged by version which use this interface. (Note that HDToolbox does not *access* the partitions. It just asks the drive how big it is and writes this information into the first few blocks of the drive. So it is safe to use HDToolbox on any drive, even if it reports wrong sizes.)

The only alternate interface the standard scsi.device offers is SCSI-Direct. This is used by SFS up to version 1.84, but not by any other program. So don't use them.

manicx · 12 July 2004, 16:15

So Thomas (hey I was actually expecting you to pop in

), you say that if I use the SFS 1.84 with Quick format, it will work? That full format thing killed the other partitions and I had to repartition again...

thomas · 12 July 2004, 16:26

Yes.

But you should always double check which program to let act on the last (<4GB) partition. Everything writing to it with 32bit commands will give you a similar result as your format attempt. This will not change with IDEfix or OS3.9. Every program which does low-level write accesses to the HDD and does not check if the result of multiplying two 32bit numbers still fit into 32 bits might cause harm to the data in the first 4GB of your HDD.

ant512 · 12 July 2004, 16:30

Thanks for the corrections, Thomas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

The only alternate interface the standard scsi.device offers is SCSI-Direct. This is used by SFS up to version 1.84, but not by any other program. So don't use them.

Don't forget TD64, the 64-bit version of FFS - that uses SCSI-Direct, too.

manicx · 12 July 2004, 20:03

Just a final question to you guys. Thomas, you said that this will not change with IDEFix or OS3.9. You mean that it will not change ie it won't do anything for the problem or exactly the opposite that will solve the problem. I am basically fully registered with IDEFix so I need to know... Of course, I am not using a buffered IDE interface, just the standard A1200 IDE....

thomas · 12 July 2004, 20:34

IDEfix provides both TD64 and NSD functionality and fixes SCSI-Direct, so you can choose from a variety of filesystems providing large hdd support, e.g. PFS3, SFS, FastFileSystem V43+. But providing functionality does not fix pograms which do not use these functions, so you still must not use full format, ReOrg, DiskSalv, AmibackTools, QuarterbackTools, DynamiCache, ShapeShifter, PC-Task, PCx and probably many more on partitions beyond the 4GB border.

manicx · 13 July 2004, 09:22

Okay guys, thanks a million for your valuable help...

27 January 2004, 16:22	#1
manicx Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 962	6GB HD under WB 3.1 Which is the best way to see the >4GB partitions under WB3.1? I want to install SFS too. I knew that SFS cures the problem but I found that after a specific version it doesn't work and you need either OS3.9 with the boing ball patches or IDEFix... Any suggestions?

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04 February 2004, 10:34	#4
Enverex Fantasy Man! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,322	Is SFS faster than FFS?

12 July 2004, 09:58	#6
manicx Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 962	So, I spend my while weekend trying to install the 6GB hard disk on a bog standard 3.1 Amiga. I tried SFS 1.84 at first that is supposed to regognise HDs>4GB... Indeed I saw the full 6GBs in HDToolbox. I succesfully partitioned the Drive and made three partitions. The first was 100Mb, the second was 2 GBs and the third was the remaining one (<4GB). I formatted dh0, dh1 and everything was okay. After formatting dh2, the HD was messed up. Formatting the 3rd partition always caused me troubles. Then I decided to use the latest release of SFS. As people said, it doesn't see a HD larger than 6GB. Well, you see it in HDToolbox, but if you set your HD to use all 6GB, the last partition that is in the +4GB area doesn't appear in the WB. Move the slider down and leave 2 GBs of unpartitioned space and there you are. I then decided again to use 1.84 and leave 2GB of unpartitioned space. It works, the HD is formatted succesfully but you are missing the 2GBs... I wanted to try AFS, but I couldn't locate the documentation and didn't know the damn identifier... Hope to find it and try with it as well... It seems to me that on a bog standard 3.1 A1200, I can't see HD > 4GB. I don't want to install OS3.9 + Boing Bags 1+ 2 since the Amiga only has 2 MBs of RAM and I don't want to end up with 800Kb of free memory. Well, even 4GBs are okay considering that I got this HD for free !

12 July 2004, 10:47	#7
ant512 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 943	You either need to install a patched scsi.device or enable "direct SCSI" in SFS in order to use large drives. Patched SCSI devices are included with IDEFix and the EIDE'99 package. Direct SCSI only works in old versions of SFS (you might have the correct version, but can't be using the direct SCSI version). Alternatively, you can get the patched version of FFS from the Aminet, which has a direct SCSI option (search for "TD64"). At the moment, although the filesystem will happily use large drives, the SCSI driver is causing data from the end of the drive to get written over the start of the drive. The heirarchy looks like this: Drive -> SCSI.device -> Filesystem -> HDToolBox

12 July 2004, 16:15	#9
manicx Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 962	So Thomas (hey I was actually expecting you to pop in ), you say that if I use the SFS 1.84 with Quick format, it will work? That full format thing killed the other partitions and I had to repartition again...

12 July 2004, 16:26	#10
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 5,613	Yes. But you should always double check which program to let act on the last (<4GB) partition. Everything writing to it with 32bit commands will give you a similar result as your format attempt. This will not change with IDEfix or OS3.9. Every program which does low-level write accesses to the HDD and does not check if the result of multiplying two 32bit numbers still fit into 32 bits might cause harm to the data in the first 4GB of your HDD.

12 July 2004, 20:03	#12
manicx Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 962	Just a final question to you guys. Thomas, you said that this will not change with IDEFix or OS3.9. You mean that it will not change ie it won't do anything for the problem or exactly the opposite that will solve the problem. I am basically fully registered with IDEFix so I need to know... Of course, I am not using a buffered IDE interface, just the standard A1200 IDE....

12 July 2004, 20:34	#13
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 5,613	IDEfix provides both TD64 and NSD functionality and fixes SCSI-Direct, so you can choose from a variety of filesystems providing large hdd support, e.g. PFS3, SFS, FastFileSystem V43+. But providing functionality does not fix pograms which do not use these functions, so you still must not use full format, ReOrg, DiskSalv, AmibackTools, QuarterbackTools, DynamiCache, ShapeShifter, PC-Task, PCx and probably many more on partitions beyond the 4GB border.

13 July 2004, 09:22	#14
manicx Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 962	Okay guys, thanks a million for your valuable help...

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