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Old 21 January 2004, 18:26   #41
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Originally posted by fiath
But I meant the whole thing. As above. What does the OS have to do with the classic Amiga? I'd like to know. All I can see so far is a company buying the Amiga name and making a computer (okay, it seems actually not) using the same philosophy, look & feel etc. Is it any more than that?

Don't get me wrong, that's fine. It caters for all though people that don't want Windows/MacOS/Linux but something they are used to. Its just for me, I don't see anything Amiga about the new Amiga. It is a machine in its own right that happens to share the name.
That's exactly how I feel. It's only an Amiga in name. Otherwise it's just an overpriced PPC box. Maybe if OS4 is ever released it will change my mind. However, they really need to bring the cost down, and the specs up, or at least make it as cheap as the Pegasos.
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Old 21 January 2004, 19:43   #42
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What the heck will you do with the thing, that your PC, Mac, WinUAE, or the like can't?
It's not about doing things that other systems can't do. Some people prefer to use Macs for their daily computing experience, some people use Linux, some people Beos. They don't do any "magical" stuff with their machines that Windows can't handle - they just prefer to use a different tool for the job.

I use AmigaOS, because I'm controlling the OS - not the other way round. I prefer AmigaOS over other solutions, because I know it inside out. I prefer using AmigaOS software, because it's slim, comes with well documented message ports (I'm heavily using ARexx to automate processes) and because I can send a mail to the developer and I'm guaranteed to get a helpful and friendly response.

Apart from developing, I'm just browsing the net, write letters, listen to MP3s and play the occasional game. I could do that on any platform out there but my platform of choice is AmigaOS.

@fiath:

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OS? What does the A1 OS have to do with the classic Amiga's OS? Don't get me wrong, that is a serious question. Severin?

AFAIK it was built from scratch (which is a very good thing) and so other than the Amiga name coming with it, as far as I can see, it has as much to do with the classic Amiga as MorphOS. Would that be correct? I guess both are "modelled" after it - or just insipred by it.
That's not entirely correct. (Big) parts of AmigaOS had to be rewritten, because they were written in Assembly - or bringing them up to today's standards would have been more work then recreating them from scratch (dos.library would be an example). Other parts were expanded and recompiled.

That's just the way a(ny) product evolves. It certainly has a lot more in common with earlier versions than just the name - but that's not important to me anyway.

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I assumed Amiga Inc. were directing the effort. So is Amiga Inc. just a middle man? Hmmm....
Amiga Inc. own the trademarks and the intellectual property. They licensed that stuff to the guys doing the actual work (Eyetech and Hyperion). That's all.

@adolescent:

Quote:
That's exactly how I feel. It's only an Amiga in name. Otherwise it's just an overpriced PPC box. Maybe if OS4 is ever released it will change my mind. However, they really need to bring the cost down, and the specs up, or at least make it as cheap as the Pegasos.
The current price of the A1 matches the current costs. If Eyetech drop the price, they're going to loose money with it. They could do that, in the hope that sales might increase soon - but they're not willing to risk that. The A1 *will* get cheaper as soon as it will be produced in higher quantities. I'm confident this will happen this year.

Genesi (the makers of the "Pegasos") are following a different approach - they don't make money right now, and they're giving away free boards constantly to promote the platform and attract developers. According to their CEO, they would need to sell 25.000 boards per month to cover the costs of running the company. They sold less than 1000 boards in the last 12 months. Genesi have financial difficulties right now (they're not paying their employees for example).

Personally, I'm glad Eyetech follow a more conservative approach.

Last edited by Korodny; 21 January 2004 at 21:07.
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Old 21 January 2004, 19:47   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by fiath
OS? What does the A1 OS have to do with the classic Amiga's OS? Don't get me wrong, that is a serious question. Severin?

AFAIK it was built from scratch (which is a very good thing) and so other than the Amiga name coming with it, as far as I can see, it has as much to do with the classic Amiga as MorphOS. Would that be correct? I guess both are "modelled" after it - or just insipred by it.

Ultimately, if you use an Amiga now, and want to upgrade it. *Then* I can see a reason to get an A1. I have a good friend who is the same. His (pretty impressive!) Amiga is his sole computer, and so therefore an A1 is a viable upgrade route for him - just as long as he can dual-boot with Linux for the things he can't use the A1 for...

I was just a little surprised because I thought it was "just" to support the community. Which makes no sense to me. I'm glad that isn't the case!
Well, I think Severin answered the OS question, so I won't go into that.

Anyhoo, I have a pile of PCs which I use for most of my current needs, the Amigas I mostly use to cure my frequent nostalgia attacks.

There is an Ariadne NIC in the A4000, but I think it's dead, because I can't seem to get it working. If it had worked I could at least have made an attempt at surfing the Internet with the A4000, but without a graphics card it would mainly have been usable for most stuff except web stuff. Surfing the web in 256 colours isn't really much fun.

Personally, I don't see a problem with purchasing something "just to support it", but I guess that's a matter of perspective. And while I think the A1 is a perfectly good machine, my main soft spot is for the classic Amigas. So perhaps I'll just stick with them for the time being.
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Old 21 January 2004, 20:14   #44
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Genesi (the makers of the "Pegasos") are following a different approach - they don't make money right now, and they're giving away free boards constantly to promote the platform and attract developers. According to their CEO, they would need to sell 25.000 boards per month to cover the costs of running the company. They sold less than 1000 boards in the last 12 months. Genesi have financial difficulties right now (they're not paying their employees for example).

Personnay, I'm glad Eyetech follow a more conservative approach. [/B]
25,000 boards a month? What the hell were they thinking?
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Old 21 January 2004, 21:03   #45
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@unknown:

Well, they had a problem: Their solution is not "official". To many people "the name" is quite important, that's why they're still waiting for AmigaOS4. Genesi were unable to agree with Amiga Inc. about licensing conditions, so they had to follow their own way.

Genesi's only chance was to hit the market as soon as possible (i.e. both their hardware and the OS were not really "finished" or suitable for joe user when they got released 1.5 years ago) and be as cheap as possible (compared to the official solution) - as soon as OS4 will be available, Genesi chances to gain a significant market share are pretty much non-existant ("market" is not the right word, it's more about attracting enthusiastic developers, web site maintainers and people that do the "mouth to mouth propaganda thing" than selling computers to a few fanatics).

It worked somehow - everybody is complaining about the high price of the A1 ("it should be priced like the Pegasos"). But it wasn't enough to make more people abandon the official path.

Small correction: I'm not sure if the sold "less than 1000 machines", might be 1500 or sth. like that. Doesn't make much of a difference though.

Edit:

Forgot to mention that Bill Buck (Genesi CEO) was (according to rumours) able to pump money into Genesi, because he had other companies generating a lot of revenue. But his cash cow "Pretory SA" - a french subsidiary of "Pretory USA" which is owned by Buck - recently got into massive legal and financial problems: the CEO of Pretory SA is charged by the french authorities, Pretory SA is bankrupt. There are rumours that Pretory SA's problems are the cause for Genesi's financial problems.

Last edited by Korodny; 21 January 2004 at 21:12.
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Old 21 January 2004, 21:21   #46
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Both companies would have better luck liquidating everything they have and buying lottery tickets with the money.

Judging the way A1 was recieved here, EMU-uk, and amiga newsgroups I dont think they would sell more then a few thousand of the A1 at best over a period of a year which means OS4 developers as well as hardware developers will lose money and quit.

Its funny now that I look at it Gateway had the sense not to dump alot of money into anything amiga when they purchased the rights to it.
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Old 21 January 2004, 21:45   #47
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Originally posted by Unknown_K
Both companies would have better luck liquidating everything they have and buying lottery tickets with the money.

Judging the way A1 was recieved here, EMU-uk, and amiga newsgroups I dont think they would sell more then a few thousand of the A1 at best over a period of a year which means OS4 developers as well as hardware developers will lose money and quit.
Well, judging the AmigaOne's sales potential by looking at retro-gaming sites might not be a fair approach (the one group that is certainly not targeted with the A1 is the retro bunch).

As I already said in the past: The A1 does not need to be immediately successful as a desktop computer - the real money is made elsewhere (embedded appliances, kiosk systems etc.). That's where the money will be made first and that's the reason why other (non-Amiga related) companies are already said to be funding the development of OS4. Hyperion and Eyetech are Amiga enthusiasts (Hyperion more then Eyetech I guess), but they are not a charity. They are involved with this to make money.

Let's judge the AmigaOne desktop platform in 3-4 years. It will need that time (IMHO) to grow into something you could call a "market" again. It will need that time to fill all the gaps in the range of available software (MS Office compatible word processor, up-to-date browser with shockwave plugin a decent database system etc.). Until then, we're just guessing - and I guess your guess is as much influenced by your feelings about the A1 than mine

What is happening right now (e.g. the amount of activity amongst software developers) makes me confident though.
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