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Old 09 January 2004, 17:37   #21
S. Campbell
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Tsk.
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Old 09 January 2004, 18:33   #22
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Oh please. Credit where credit is due is something that should be respected, and personally I would NEVER pay 30 euros for a SWOS clone.

I don't think the issue here has to do with "it takes elements..." and blah blaah. I know every bloody FPS is identical to the other, the buyres are to blame for that, but this game in question looks EXACTLY like SWOS. Even the menus and stuff!

If we are talking about REMAKES, like the brilliant Head over Heels remake, or the awesome Skool Daze remake, to name but two, they have credited COMPLETELY the original source, and have given away the games for free, as it should. This game here looks like a remake of SWOS, and should be treated like that. The remakes that cost money are those done by the official copyright holders, like all that compilation shovelware you see on the GBA, Speedball 2 on GBA, etc.

Also, I bet that everyone who bought the game did it because it was so much like SWOS, so the game is beneffiting directly from SWOS' recognition et al.

I mean, Stu's complaint, if I understanded it correctly, was completely logical. It would have been a fine thread if it was not decorated with all that shite. This message above mine is no help eiher ;P
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Old 09 January 2004, 18:56   #23
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I agree completely with Akira (and with Stu Campbell), the game looks EXACTLY like SWOS, which would be fine if it was free, but the guy is wanting to make money from it. I'm all for bedroom coders, but if you intend to make money from something, you should make original product. This doesn't necessarily mean an original idea (are there any of them left?), but it should at least be your own interpretation, and not a facsimili of other people's work. Sensi was inspired by Kick Off but played a COMPLETELY different ( and FAR better imo) game.

As for the "look" being similar to Kick Off; Sensi Software actually based the look on the sprites they used for Mega Lo Mania (I seem to remember that the whole idea for a football game came from playing aroung with that game's sprites and making them look like footballers). I'm all for PD, but I certainyl wouldn't pay someone for a CLONE (with just a few very minor differences) of, say, Street Fighter II as this would clearly be wrong. What's different here?
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Old 09 January 2004, 19:45   #24
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Personally, I could never understand what people liked in SWOS , I thought KO2 required much more skill in actually scoring a goal and passing etc..
And I too maybe leaning towards Mr. Campbell's argument (about profit from other ideas), this has always been a muddy ideology in the Computer world for decades. But regardless there a more gentlemanly ways to argue your point other than swearing cussing and putting down your fellow gamers. (presuming he still play games) . There are clearly some old battles left to go on with Mr Dini .
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Old 09 January 2004, 20:32   #25
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Just as a couple of points of order - as anyone can see, I wasn't noticeably abusive in the original thread, just annoyed at someone charging (quite a lot of) money for an obvious and poor-quality ripoff of our game without so much as a credit for it. It's not a "little bit" similar to SWOS, it's almost identical. I didn't threaten anyone with anything, merely expressed entirely legitimate anger on behalf of me and the other Sensi chaps, who also strongly resent this sort of thing.

I didn't mention Kick Off or Dino Dini in any way whatsoever. Dino and his tiny gang of simpering Euro-fanboys took it upon themselves to barge into the thread and gratuitously bitch at me on the subject. I haven't written anything about Kick Off anywhere for about nine years, and actually only ever mentioned it in AP four or five times, in three years on the mag.

As for taking the beef about Championship Soccer up with the developer personally, his contact page SPECIFICALLY asks people to post things on the forum rather than emailing them directly to him. If you're going to whine at me, at least check your facts first.

Kick Off is an ancient relic of history which only a tiny handful of obsessives still care about. It was shit 15 years ago and it's shit now. Dino is a paranoid idiot who really ought to have grown out of this sort of juvenile pouting about ONE PERSON not liking his game by now, and who really ought to wake up and smell the fact that nobody's interested in his rubbish pinball simulation any more, as is comprehensively shown by the spectacularly atrocious sales of the 20 or so different failed Kick Off-derived games released since 1989. Amiga, Spectrum, Playstation, PC, they've tried every audience out there and none of them are interested. Its time has long since passed. Get over it.

And as for the odd cuss-word among adult men - honestly, grow the fuck up, you lily-livered fucking pussies.

Love you all!
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Old 09 January 2004, 20:54   #26
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Mods, can we lock this thread before this idiot goes out of control?
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Old 09 January 2004, 21:52   #27
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Lock it? C'mon, you MUST know that Stuart's swearing on THIS thread was used in irony to make a point? No?
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Old 09 January 2004, 21:53   #28
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Of course, it's just that thread on that CM board was out of control, and didn't really get anyone anywhere. I couldn't give a toss about swearing :P
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Old 09 January 2004, 22:46   #29
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Irony or not I'll bite.
Swearing has a time and place (That's all I ever suggested , after all I'm no saint believe me! ).
More often than not swearing comes from people who haven't grown up (possibly mentally) , or show no other way to vent there frustrations.
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Old 09 January 2004, 22:55   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by turk182
More often than not swearing comes from people who haven't grown up (possibly mentally) , or show no other way to vent there frustrations.
Way to make a sweeping statement. I'm an adult with a large vocabulary (degree in English Lang and all that) and I use swearing to express extreme frustration. This doesn't make me childish.

Last edited by Marlon; 10 January 2004 at 01:29.
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Old 09 January 2004, 23:31   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by P-J
Mods, can we lock this thread before this idiot goes out of control?
Yes, you're right. What I said up there was a LOT worse than:

Quote:
his attitude is unbelievable. He's the kind of 'prick' we'd all associate the 'guilty until proven innocent' phrase with. I've always hated him... A very non-talented individual. He was a terrible journalist and I imagine he probably got paid a lot of money for very litle work at Sensible...The link is in his signature, however I won't post it here since I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Man, it's a wonder I can live with myself.
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Old 09 January 2004, 23:54   #32
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While we're clearing the air, I'd just like to say something.

Stuart Campbell, you ruined my life!

It started when I read your PC Zone section. It's all very well telling us to emulate. I said, well yeah, I'll try to emulate Stuart Campbell.

So I wore the kilt at work and got the mohican haircut. What do you think happened? I got the sack, that's what!

All I've got left now is my pile of Amiga Power magazines.

Sorry, carry on please people.
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Old 10 January 2004, 00:27   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by S. Campbell
Man, it's a wonder I can live with myself.
Actually, that's a good point. I apologise for those remarks above, and admittedly I don't really know why I made them.
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Old 10 January 2004, 00:31   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by turk182
Irony or not I'll bite.
Swearing has a time and place (That's all I ever suggested , after all I'm no saint believe me! ).
More often than not swearing comes from people who haven't grown up (possibly mentally) , or show no other way to vent there frustrations.
I'd have to say I disagree with that-- I personally think most people swear profusely in later life if they were punished for doing it in their youth. It's kind of 'repressed breakouts' that we get in later life.

I'm sure I could be proved wrong though
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Old 10 January 2004, 01:37   #35
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There really isn't a final word on this, except perhaps...Stuart had the right to express his opinions on the matter (and as we live in a democracy, to express them in any WAY he choses) and people have the right to agree (as I do) or disagree with him. Anyone offended by his blunt honesty on THIS board should remember that he was "attacked" first. Personally, I've always liked his journalism and agreed with what he's had to say about the games themselves (although I STILL maintain that Kid Gloves was completely over-rated).

He's still a short-arsed Caledonian git, though. Gawd bless 'im.
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Old 10 January 2004, 02:11   #36
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Marlon nothing personal man...

But your avatar just makes me wanna punch you in the face...Hard

Sorry but it had to be said
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Old 10 January 2004, 02:13   #37
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Hey, if you don't like the comedy legend that is Rik Mayall, that's YOUR problem, man.

Last edited by Marlon; 10 January 2004 at 02:19.
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Old 10 January 2004, 02:21   #38
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nah I used to like the young ones thats the funny thing its just that face hes making in your pic...

Oh well back on topic...I downloaded the game in question and found it alot harder than Sensi but it does look %95 identical.

and I noticed that Andrew does make mention of Sensi on the programmer page on his website.

so either way sensi was more arcadey in my opinion and kick off more of a sim, both good just different.
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Old 10 January 2004, 02:56   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marlon
Hey, if you don't like the comedy legend that is Rik Mayall, that's YOUR problem, man.
Now is this the same Rik Mayall that was in an episode of Black Adder, think it was the one where adder fancied his new found chum, BOB
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Old 10 January 2004, 03:01   #40
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Yep, Rik played Lord Flashheart in two episodes (in series two and four). I actually met him two years' ago and not only is he funny in person, he's also a top bloke who has a lot of time for his fans. I have no idea whether or not he Does a Lot of Work For Charedee...(non-brits won't get that last bit, don't worry about it, it's not very funny anyway).

Last edited by Marlon; 10 January 2004 at 03:10.
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