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Old 27 September 2003, 23:30   #1
kolorabi
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comp.sys.amiga.games

Hi there.

For a long time, I've been a member of a newsgroup called comp.sys.amiga.games . During recent years, it's shrunk to a fraction of it's original size, and I'm trying to find out why. I have my own theories, ofcourse, but I won't discuss them here (yet, at least - I don't want to influence any responses to this question).

Basically, I'm going to give a brief description of the newsgroup, and if it sounds like a group you'd be interested in joining, well, go ahead and do so. If it doesn't sound like a group you'd be interested in joining, please say why. Okay? Bear in mind that I am not trying to persuade anyone to leave EAB to join CSAG, I am simply trying to find out why the newsgroup get so few new posters these days. ANY response is appreciated, no matter what it is (as long as you're being honest, ofcourse ).

Description:
comp.sys.amiga.games is a newsgroup dedictated to the discussion of Amiga games, both old and new. It is not moderated. It is a relatively small newsgroup, and currently receives around 20 new posts a day (not all of which are on-topic). The amount of new posts obviously depends on what there is to discuss, and it tend to be between 15 and 0. Questions regarding game quality, playability and availability are on-topic. The group has a relatively tough stance on software piracy - basically, it is not accepted, which means that adf-requests (regardless of the age of the game in question) are unwelcome. The same is true for UAE-related questions. ADF-requests will mostly result in a post telling you where to buy the game or alternative newsgroups / forums where such questions are on-topic, though sometimes the response can be quite unfriendly. Also be warned that if you protest (or respond to an ADF-request by giving illegal download links), you are going to attract negative attention to yourself, and you risk being flamed (again, this is an unmoderated group - you can post whatever you want, but so can anyone else - though ofcourse there's the option of complaining to someone's ISP if you feel you have the reason to do so).

The FAQ for the newsgroup is located here: http://ballz.ababa.net/csag/

You can have a look at the newsgroup via groups.google.com (search for "comp.sys.amiga.games"), which you can also use to post messages there (after having registered as a groups.google.com user). A dedicated newsreader (or mailer with news-reading capabillities) is reccommended, though. If you use the latter, you will have the option of downloading messages so you can read and respond to them off-line.

Ok. That sums it up, I think. Here's a disclaimer, though: I am not asking on behalf of the newsgroup, but on behalf of myself. As I said, I have some theories regarding the current situation of csag, and I want to see if I am correct or not. I will post the results of this thread (if it becomes one) in the newsgroup, though (so if you don't want to be quoted, please say so). Thanks
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Old 27 September 2003, 23:47   #2
cv643d
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I used to be in that newsgroup a year ago along with lots of other Amiga newsgroups. It was very interesting sometimes I must say.

I also remember that idiot "SD" that posted lots of bullshit in comp.sys.amiga.advocacy. He thought Hyperion renamed some file in OS 4 to SD just because of him.. what a sad idiot. Thanks to him I dont look in Amiga news anymore.

(I think I wrote a public message to him that I would punch him in his face if he ever showed up where I lived).
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Old 27 September 2003, 23:49   #3
Mr Creosote
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Quote:
During recent years, it's shrunk to a fraction of it's original size, and I'm trying to find out why.
Simple answer: All newsgroups are dying. The concept is pretty much obsolete with web-based forums these days. Main problem is the technical inability of 99.999999% of all computer users who can't do anything else than open "Word" or "Internet Explorer", of course.
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Old 28 September 2003, 00:00   #4
Dizzy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Creosote
Simple answer: All newsgroups are dying. The concept is pretty much obsolete with web-based forums these days. Main problem is the technical inability of 99.999999% of all computer users who can't do anything else than open "Word" or "Internet Explorer", of course.
Well all the binaer groups are stronger than ever.... But yes the more forum based newsgroup are to complicated, and there always seems to be a so called leader flaming every person he/she don't like... or some jerk posting porn...
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Old 28 September 2003, 00:06   #5
jmmijo
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Actually it's due to the SPAMming that I don't post very often at all and the fact I have to use a fictitious email addy due to harvesting and other such BS
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Old 28 September 2003, 00:14   #6
whiteb
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Yeah i have noticed the newsgroups shrinking over the times... and yes I agree the binary groups are just simply exploding.

My favorite haunt... Alt.binaries.startrek.

I think the difference with binary as opposed to the standard forums, is that they arent usually home to conversations, most people going to those groups have binary seeking programs which ignore the spam.
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Old 28 September 2003, 00:51   #7
fiath
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IMO -

Trolls like Koft. Unfortuntely it seems some do not go away.
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Old 28 September 2003, 01:08   #8
Frootloop
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I used to read comp.sys.amiga.games back in the 90s when there were still commercial Amiga games being made. I'm still subscribed to it but there doesn't seem to be much activity except when someone asks for an ADF and then a huge flamewar thread starts up. It seems to me that the people in "control" of the newsgroup are the old guard so to speak, the diehard Amiga users who just can't let go that the Amiga is dead and no longer a commercially viable platform for games. Like it or not, emulation is the only thing that will keep the memory of the Amiga alive and as time goes on more and more people will be using emulation instead of the real thing. But they can't let go like the C64 users have.
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Old 28 September 2003, 02:51   #9
Overdoc
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I have been looking in c.s.a.g from time to time, but as already has been said most people there do not mainly concentrate on Amiga games, but more on Amiga games piracy !
Also, they mainly talk about newer Amigagames, but not so much about the old A-500 games.

Whenever I had some question about an old game or needed some help because I got stuck, none of the regulars could ever help. Instead they could just post endless arguments about why it is illeagal to copy a 15 year old game whenever some guy requested a game, who had just discovered the Amiga again thru WinUAE

But, on the other hand I have to admit that besides those copyright fanatics there are also some nice guys reading this group, which have indeed kindly helped me
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Old 28 September 2003, 03:04   #10
Enverex
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Spamming IN the newsgroup and Spamming to the address used in the newsgroup are the problems I have with them.
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Old 28 September 2003, 14:35   #11
Fred the Fop
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I thought Binaries were newsgroups???
Anyhow, I think, like BBS and Telenet and IRC, this stuff is dying fast.
It's cumbersome and awkward. FTP, P2P and HTTP are far swifter to grasp and smooth. After all, is'nt computing supposed to be hassle free and efficent? That's the general direction, I hope.
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Old 28 September 2003, 16:15   #12
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I dont think IRC is dying, for some purposes having real time chat is better then posting on a forum and waiting for somebody to read and reply.

Newsgroups have less people these days becasue of SPAM, if you reply to a note with a real email address you get spammed to death. The good thing about newsgroups is that you can reach one hell of alot more people since there is generally 1 amiga newsgroup compared to dozens of amiga forums. Also it is very easy to google an old thread from a newsgroup to help you fix a probem.

I used to use ICQ alot for keeping in touch with people but forums, emails, and the ocasional irc chat are about it these days.
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Old 28 September 2003, 19:31   #13
cv643d
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I have got the impression that IRC is dying, you can notice that on the amount of girls that where around on mainstream channels around 1998-2000 and the amount now. Also in most channels I have visited since 98 mostly all have shrunk, and the iddling is far worse than its ever been before.

I think this is because of teen community pages that are very popular at least here in Sweden. Young chix dont want to chat on IRC because of all the guys that want to have cyber-sex with them. And when the chix are not around the guys wont come.

I dont think IRC will die off completely. But in the end only the pure computer geeks will be there. Just like it was in the beginning.
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Old 28 September 2003, 20:03   #14
jmmijo
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So in a way you could say that the fuel to keeping IRC alive is nothing more then cyber-sex

Maybe all the chix went to AOL's chat rooms now to talk to all the R. Kelly wannabe's
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Old 28 September 2003, 20:47   #15
Mr Creosote
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Quote:
I think this is because of teen community pages that are very popular at least here in Sweden. Young chix dont want to chat on IRC because of all the guys that want to have cyber-sex with them. And when the chix are not around the guys wont come.
As if was different on any of those 'community pages'
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Old 29 September 2003, 00:07   #16
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I never went to teen channels to have cyber sex, so I dont know if those are dying or not.

I was talking about places where techies hung out discussing game releases, old and new hardware, programming, trading, etc.
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Old 29 September 2003, 08:40   #17
Frootloop
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Quote:
Originally posted by cv643d
I dont think IRC will die off completely. But in the end only the pure computer geeks will be there. Just like it was in the beginning.
That's why I still use IRC because the quality of discussions is usually on a much higher level than easily accessible networks. Just try visiting Yahoo! chat rooms to see the amount of crap being written.
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Old 29 September 2003, 12:30   #18
fiath
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frederic
I thought Binaries were newsgroups???
Anyhow, I think, like BBS and Telenet and IRC, this stuff is dying fast.
It's cumbersome and awkward. FTP, P2P and HTTP are far swifter to grasp and smooth. After all, is'nt computing supposed to be hassle free and efficent? That's the general direction, I hope.
BBS - Agreed

Telnet - Disagee, okay the protocol itself is stepping back for things like rlogin and ssh, but the concept, if anything is getting more widely used due to the ever increasing acceptance of Linux. Also modern routers - okay, some have web interfaces, but *all* have a text based remote login interface for configuration. Of course, any other use but administrative is probably very nearly dead, but I can't see much use other than classic MUDing or watching Starwars .

IRC - I think that unless people provide a web interface, this has been pretty much always in the realm of computer enthusiasts or pirates. I can't really comment on the sexual aspect, though there was this one time at uni when I pretended to be a lesbian on #bigbutchbitches...

NNTP: I think this is only dying with the "mainstream population" because of lack of education. IMHO it is *the perfect* discussion area. It is standard, and familiar way of discussion. It was always going to be abused, which is a shame, but it will always have a use. Most of the active, *discussion* groups are computer related in some way, I think they are here to stay.

FTP - Here to stay

P2P - Wouldn't it be nice if this was defined "back in the day"? Wouldn't it be nice to have a protocol familiar as NNTP, FTP, HTTP where the only thing that changes was whatever user interface you used? Ahhh, wishes...


Anyway, back on topic. I can think of more reasons comp.sys.amiga.games is less used, and it is not just because of the mirrored interest in the Amiga.

o If EAB was news://comp.sys.amiga.discussion.* you start getting problems with firewalls.

Other things that something like webboard have over NNTP/Email:

o User web acceptance (vicious circle there)
o Post archive + search
o Avitars
o SPAM amount (lack of standards are *good* ) the fact that we remember the last one is a great situation.
o Thread/message admin that *works*
o Group management (adding,etc.)

maybe others...

All of these problems show a fundermental difference in the post-server population vs. centralised webboard type mechanisms. NTTP is massively scaleable, but now becoming less used... Oh the irony of it....
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Old 29 September 2003, 16:36   #19
cv643d
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girls used to hang out in normal channels to.
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Old 29 September 2003, 20:25   #20
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Well, i used to goto comp.sys.amiga.games and other Amiga newsgroups, but since joining EAB see no reason to go back. This is the place to be in my books
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