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Old 16 August 2001, 02:06   #1
Bombjacker
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Is emulation a waste of time?

Why are we all spending a lot of time doin the retro? It could be argued that we should be using our time to experience new wonderful things! So is emulation a waste of time? I obviously don't think so as I is an addict myself. But why are so many into the retro thing?
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Old 16 August 2001, 02:32   #2
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Speaking for myself, the golden Amiga age was the greatest period in my game playing life. I have used a lot of different computers, but nothing gets even close to my old A500.
Experiencing wonderful new things, as you put it, is so depressing (for a gamer, that is). The PC games are all gfx and no feeling. The industry giants can have 150 people working with a game for years, and all they produce is some new gfx engine that you need all the latest monster hardware to install.
So, I retro. In 50 years or so, sitting in a rocking chair, I will probably still play my daily round of Pacmania.
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Old 16 August 2001, 02:55   #3
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My reason is

That the Amiga was all about innovation in gaming (As far as I'm concerned), Joe Bloggs of the street could program a world beating (Original) game that could outsell any Software House produced title (Worms for instance), but now the hardware has moved on so much it's almost impossible for the little man to compete with the big boys (ie The average cost of game development for PS2/GameCube/X-Box is rumoured to be in the millions).

The last game to bring something new to the table was Wolfenstein 3D IMO, since then we have been bludgend with countless clones, rip-offs, upgrades and revamps making gaming on a whole (For me) a major dissapointment.

So playing these games on emulators lets me remember the good times of gaming and makes me think that one day, the software giants will get their acts together and bring back the golden age of innovation.

Sadly I don't think it'll ever happen.
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Old 16 August 2001, 05:27   #4
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Yes and No

Yes, if you own the real thing and you are emulating it, no matter what is it taht you emulate. WTF are you doing there, sitting in front of teh PC, instead of hooking up the real thing? What? That you have zillions of r0mz0rz on the PC but one real game? Ok, then go buy some! And if you ahve an Amiga, even better, since you don't need to buy, you just transfer!

And No, because yu get to know many systems you never owned, or could never own, or never get access to. Learning its intrincacies, how they work and how to use the,. At least this is what I like to do, sitting with a new system one day, and starting to learn how to use its OS, etc, just like what I did with my computers. This is brilliant. And if I like the machine, I go and try to buy it. Of course if it is a console there's no OS to learn about, but there are games you may like and make you go buy one. This is mostly how my computer and consoles collection grew up, by buying stuff thaT I liked thru emulation. And since (I will copyright this) "Nothing beats the Real thing©", if you liked crappy emulation, you gonna love the real thing

As for today's games, I ratehr avoid a huge rant about them. Today's games market (it used not to be such a market) is just full of same crap over and opver and very litttle originality, the emphasize of graphics and sound over gameplay, and shit like that. When you ask a kid on the street what game he likes, and why, you might want to hit his little bollocks, and throw his unconscious body to the lions at the zoo. At least I want to. And I will not say I automaticaly not try anything that is new just because, I do try new stuff, and it always leaves a bitter taste in my gaming mouth.

Ian, the idea of Wolfenstein was used even before it So it wasn't THAT new (mix Castle MAster with Operation Wolf. tada!) The last original (VERY original) concept I Can think of, is Lemmings. You don't see games like that anymore.

And...
Quote:
So playing these games on emulators lets me remember the good times of gaming and makes me think that one day, the software giants will get their acts together and bring back the golden age of innovation.
I agree that this will sadly not happen, unless we boycott them and we kill teh eyecandy-savvy kiddies on the street, sometihng that will end up in us all being convicted :laugh
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Old 16 August 2001, 22:37   #5
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Evil grin

Let's go and kill the wretched little bastards!

Every time I am in a 'computer' shop, or should I say casual gamer shop, I snigger inwardly at the saps who buy games on the strength of their graphics without even thinking about what the game will be like to PLAY. They need a good kicking to knock some sense into them!

I must confess I do have a lot of roms on my PC, largely for the reason that I sold most of my old machines. The only thing I have left is my A1200! Wish I never swapped my A500 for it though all those years ago - that was a big mistake!

But emulation on the PC has given me the chance to play these great games again. I too was suckered into the better graphics=better games idiocy! Took me long enough to see the light. As for original concept games, I am afraid the best bet is the PC at the moment. Original games just never seem to materialise on the consoles. I can't off the top of my head think of one! No doubt someone will correct me!
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Old 16 August 2001, 23:08   #6
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I daresay, you will not find a single shard of originality on PC games either. One big recycle heap. TV is cheaper and you end up with the same type of rubbish.
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Old 16 August 2001, 23:34   #7
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The last thing I liked on the PC was Rolercoaster Tycoon, which is a Transport Tycoon + Theme Park ripoff..

Then Wettrix was kind of original... and that made it onto the consoles... As a matter of fact, consoles get mroe fresh stuff than PCs. You gotta look east. Jet Grind Radio was quite original, and all that Dance Dance shit... At least they dont stick to the 'fps+sports+driving" games scheme
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Old 16 August 2001, 23:48   #8
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Unhappy

I believe that it's incredibly difficult to come up with a truely original concept. A lot of games that seem original are still often derivative of other games! Wetrix was really just Tetris with water. By dance games do you mean shite like Space Channel five. If so they are just reaction and timing. I am sure that type of concept has been done before the consoles arrived. Just tarted up to seem like something new.

This topic seems to have changed focus!
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Old 17 August 2001, 10:37   #9
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Unhappy It's about first-time-experiences

As far as I remember, I found music, movies and games much better in my childhood. Because everything was new for me I was all the time impressed. Nowadays I am spoilt with state-of-the-art games, movies and music. Everything is saturated. I have heard or seen it before and all these media add little new to the gamma of experiences I already have.
The Amiga (and the C64) are part of my childhood. It was a time when everything looked possible because I simply had not seen it before. With emulation I want to somehow relive this first-time-experience, but it will never be that unique and shining as it was in my childhood.
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Old 17 August 2001, 11:04   #10
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Cool Amiga

I agree. It was a brave new world for me too. Previously I had only seen the likes of the Spectrum.
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Old 17 August 2001, 11:50   #11
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I'll get a bit off-topic here as That's an interesting discussion.

Years ago, when the Mega-Drive and the Amiga were hot, we're used to hear "The good times were when we had Spectrums, C64s and stuff"...

Today I hear people say the good times were when he had Amigas and Mega-Drives

in a few years, I believe we'll be hearing people saying the good times were when we had PSXs and Sega Saturns..

I believe each "era" have good and bad games. The truth is, the good games used to get more credit in the past.

Everybody knows Defender or Asteroids, great games from the 80s. From mid 90s. we had, say, Turrican and Gunstar Heroes, mid-known games (for masses). Today we have stuff like The Reap, Worms Armageddon for PC or Dangun Feveron on arcades, games that are widely unknown ....
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Old 17 August 2001, 20:02   #12
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Bombjacker, I do not know of a similar concept before Beatmania was released. I think i twas the first one. And aagin, it came from Japan. US developers have zero creativity, I don't think tehy could ever come up with an original concept. They didn't even do it in the Amiga/C64 days methinks, most original concepts came from Europe back then. Americans tend to stick to what is popular.

I agree with Shatterhand a little bit. Today's kids will say 'the good old days of the PSX' in a few years, but even that way I still think games from teh golden era were the best. It REALLY was the golden era of videogames. Not everybody knows Defender or Joust, lemme tell you
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Old 17 August 2001, 20:31   #13
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You could be right about Beatmania! I think those type of games are a bit crap anyway! Most of the best games on the Amiga were not original anyway, I don't think - shmups for example! The last great creative period in gaming, in my incredibly humble opinion was during the reign of the Speccy and C64.

Truely new concepts were few on the Amiga and a lot of the original games that come from Japan are just too strange! Although I definitely agree what you said about the Americans.

I agree with Shatterhand too! This can be said about life as well. Everyone must of heard older people say that 'it was so much better in my day'!

God, it's sounding like a sociology discussion now!
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Old 18 August 2001, 00:02   #14
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I never got this thing about the Amiga having 'too many shoot'em ups'... like, where? Because I haven't seen them. If you talk me about the Genesis... but the Amiga?

ANyway, teh Amiga got Lemmings, which could be THE most original game I ever saw And japanese games are weird, you just have to get the hang of them Beatmania is indeed boring, but it seems the dudes on the arcade that 'dance' with those games have real fun. Fact is lots of games appeal only to japanese public because other publics are not usd to them, or because other publics do not live teh same situation as japanese people. Hamster (and otehr pet) simulations are a hit in jap markets, but in otehr countries these games are a laugh.
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Old 18 August 2001, 00:20   #15
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Smile

Yes Lemmings was one hell of an original game and is still fantastic! But then I never said there were no original games. Just not that many! The thing the Amiga did have plenty of though was the implementation of original ideas in older gaming styles. True about the Genesis tho! Lots of shmups. Looked at the shmups site and was amazed at the number! There were still a substantial number on the Amiga tho. More than a lot of other machines in the past. But for shmups heaven u can't beat MAME!

MAME is one of best things ever to happen to the PC, I reckon! Altho not just for the quality arcade perfect emulation of R-Type! If you havn't already guessed, Bombjack is my thing. The best platformer ever! Shame about the sequel tho. Just doesn't seem right!


Populous was another original game, which I still think is great! But I do prefer the last version that came out on the PC!

I think what the Amiga also had going for it was that no genre type flooded the game scene. It had balance, something few machines have got anywhere near since.
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Old 18 August 2001, 21:18   #16
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talking about shmups

Now it's going waaay off-topic

the Amiga doens't have too many shmups. And vertical shmups (my fav) are even more rare.


And the best thing for shmups isn't MAME, but RAINE. Raine is THE SHMUP emulator be sure to get it... and play all those great Cave/Taito/Toaplan/Raizing/Psikyo shmups )))
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Old 18 August 2001, 22:41   #17
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About variety.. The Amiag did get some 'trend floods'... Platformers and Fighters, to name but few. To fight the war against the consoles, the 'meega got a load of platformers to 'do the Mario' or 'out-sonic Sonic', shit like that. And when SF2 came out on the consoles, the Amiga got that, and a load of other fighters.

It had a lot more original stuff when it didn't have all the pressure from teh console market...

I ahree witH Shattehand, Raine is THE Shmups emulator
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Old 18 August 2001, 22:54   #18
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Raine

Have tried Raine but my machine doesn't like it! A lot of games don't run with sound or at all! A lot of the shmups that were only working on Raine are starting to work on mame as well.

About the the time of the trend floods, I was starting to lose interest in my Amiga and went on to consoles. Namely the Megadrive! Largely due to the quality shmups and platformers! So I have to admit that my knowledge of Amiga games after about 1992 is a bit limited - much to my dettriment!

To reiterate I have never said the Amiga had too many shmups! I was just saying that the Amiga didn't have that many original games and when I mean original I mean totally original - I still believe the 8-bit arcade and home computer era had the most inovation in game design coz you had no fancy graphics or sound chips helping out!
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Old 18 August 2001, 23:35   #19
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Use RAINE32 then, recognises windows (Which I assume you are using) soundcards and stuff, I have no problems with it and my sound card is made by Yamaha circa 1996 (ie It's shit)

BTW you have to use the allegmix option for your sound.
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Old 18 August 2001, 23:40   #20
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My sound card is really shit, one of those on board bollox things! I was using Raine 32, but found Mame catered for most of my needs, thanx anyways! But if there are some quality shmups that anyone knows of that don't work on mame I would be interested and then I may check it out again.
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