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Old 04 September 2003, 18:23   #21
IanS
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I thought that pressure was applied by Amiga themselves, something to do with licensing. But at the end of the day, nobody is benefitting from the matter. We should hope that the parties involved can come to some kind of agreement, or that Bernie can involve another company and get his product back to market.

From what I hear, it's a wonderful product.
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Old 04 September 2003, 18:50   #22
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Selling someone's program and not giving his shares has nothing to do with copyright disputes.
Selling unathorised copyrighted material is not about having a different point of view.
Selling a stolen compiler is not about giving better support, than the copyright holders.

The analogy with anyone having pirated material at home is very skewed unless the person in question is selling his pirated stuff few thousand units a year and in the $100+ price range per unit...

I feel sorry in advance for any developer dealing with them. Hopefully people have been listening over the years - if not, this is going to be an "interesting" ride for them.
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Old 05 September 2003, 10:06   #23
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I feel sorry for all us having Windoze installed in our computers. It's a conspiracy theory OS, yet 99% of us have a PC that runs windows. We all say "Windoze is crap, M$ is crap, they rip off people", yet, we happily use windoze. Why are we so bad towards a company supporting the Amiga nearly 10 years after Commodore died? Yes, go on, sent them an email cursing them and don't buy their products. Install a bog standard edition of WB3.1, put many commodities in there for good and have your Amiga crashing once every 10". Uninstall, all H&P products from your HD and you may end up with useful products like Pixmate and DPaint 1 doing the trick for you. And please, uninstall WarpOS FFS! It is harmful to you. You will end up with a PPC card capable of running nothing on PPC mode. Life is so much better without H&P.

Meanwhile, us, Amiga people can still use pirated software and we can keep going about companies that "WE THINK THEY RIPPED OFF PEOPLE". We ripped off companies ages ago by using pirated crap and we do not have the right to accuse companies for (assuming ?) doing so. If the Amithlon guy was right, he would have won the case. What happened then? Why didn't he sue them? We read information (a simple statement) in the internet, a source that information is no more that 10-20% real, we have NO CLUE about copyright laws, contracts, businesses etc and we come here to say "Shame on you H&P".

I think I am lucky to have a computer that stopped coming out 10 years ago with NEW software coming out for it by companies like Hyperion and H&P. Very lucky indeed. I feel very lucky for having the two companies above taking the best OS ever to another level. Heros or villains? Ask your Amigas to say what they think! My Amiga says:

"I LOVE H&P"
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Old 05 September 2003, 10:25   #24
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IFW is obviously in posession of *ALL* the facts regarding this matter. Hence we should bow down to his superior knowledge, especially as he is also some kind of bigshot lawyer and legal expert.

Strange though, that selling somebody elses code, (that has copyright, when the issue of authorisation is in question) has NOTHING to do with copyright according to IFW. Wow, there must be some strange copyright laws where IFW comes from...


As usual, it seems that rumour and suspision take the place of cold, hard facts, but are presented by uninformed third parties as such. Personally I think that uninformed gossip is a shameful thing, probably as bad as anything H & P may or may not have done.
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Old 05 September 2003, 13:03   #25
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LOL

I am not going to argue any of the stuff here, because I do not want to turn this board into ann.lu so keep this peaceful.

Last edited by IFW; 05 September 2003 at 13:10.
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Old 05 September 2003, 13:25   #26
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Peaceful is my middle name. I was getting carried away, so apologies to IFW if I was rude. :eek

I'm off to get some prozac...
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Old 05 September 2003, 18:57   #27
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I'll just say one last thing..

I am not an asssucker for whoever supports an old machine. Just because they do doesn't mean I have to instantaneously love them and worship them. If the stuff they release and theira ttitudes are correct, I will support them to the end.

I just hate these phillosophy of "we support your defunct hardware, you bloody well should support us or die". I see lots of this shite not only in the Amiga, the C64 too.

And if your 3.1 amiga crashes every 10 minutes, maybebecause you have not tuned it up well enough, for my Amiga did this and now that I spent some time with it and tweaked it with gusto, it doesn't crash again.
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Old 06 September 2003, 01:52   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by IanS
H & P leaving would hurt the Amiga.
H&P staying, already hurt the Amiga platform more, than leaving would ever have.

Let me politely point you that you simply aren't realising the unbeliavable impact that a company like H&P has on the community that keeps a platform alive...

Without developers, professionals and artists, a platform is dead. No matter how many fans or loyal followers it might have, if they can't code professionaly or produce quality content, the platform stagnates and dies.

Well, there simply isn't an event that destroys and scares away this community, the developers, coders and artists working at professional quality levels, that the type of events H&P is involved in. No i will not go into them specifically, but let me just tell you something: They are incredibly serious. In fact, they couldn't be any more serious.

No competent, professional or respectable (i.e.- can get work on another place) worker will waste his time on a platform where he can get his hours of work stollen, his intelectual property rapped and sold without profit. It's as simple as that.

Unfortunately, for most people, they can't quite grasp a quite obvious fact: Professional developers and quality content creators will not accept subjection to this type of work environment. Period.

Companies as the one above mentioned - there are others - aren't helping the Amiga, quite the contrary, they have an incredibly negative influence over it, in fact, they've inflicted it what i'd call a death blow.

No platform can survive without a varied and lively flora & fauna of professionals, behaviour such as this in unacceptable for them, period.

Think about this the next time you use your Amiga and realise there's only 5 active companies releasing 'software' on it.

One day it will be 4.

Another one 3.

And one day, it will be 0 - which will be the day developers get sick and tired of being robbed of their hours, days, weeks, months and years work, sitting in front of a monitor.

Then the dog dies. And the fleas go hunting for another one.

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Old 06 September 2003, 12:48   #29
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1. They are serious: This can only be good

2. They ripped off people: We don't know anything. If somebody was ripping me off, I would sue him and win the case. We are not living in Ethiopia, this is Europe mind you. So, if people were ripped off, why don't they sue them. Basically, people can say whatever they say. I may set up a website and say "H&P ripped me off". People will comisserate me. As I said, we are end users and have no bloody idea about contracts (do you have the contract that these developers signed with H&P?), business laws etc. Time is passing really fast and all I can think now, is why the hell I was not buying more original software before 95. After 95 I am only with originals, before that it was a messy situation. I ripped off companies and developers and nearly everyone in this board did. It's ridiculous to comment on the sins of others without self critisizing our own crap.

H&P did absolutely nothing bad comparing to maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany companies that ripped off people in the past and they abandoned the Amiga when the Amiga was needing them. Go, on, blame H&P. As I said, if you uninstall all the software they released for the Amiga, you'll end up with a computer booting a nice gray screen. I think, it's ridiculous to comment on H&P and not other companies who killed the Amiga. As I said, my A4k is happy to use H&P software. I am happy to use their software. If there is a problem, let the courts decide. I am an end user and I buy the best. Basically, I believe that people who are against current Amiga software retailers, are harmful to the Amiga, so well done.
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Old 06 September 2003, 13:45   #30
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DISCLAIMER

This is not contribution to the HP issues at all - as promised I won't comment on that to keep the board peaceful -, but the answer why people do not sue or give up over IP theft.

1, You need to have around $30,000-$50,000 in advance to start such a case. Remember you worked on the project full time, you don't have that sort of money at the time.
2, You've been working on your project on minimal income, loans, help of friends whatever. Basically you spent money on the project and was off regular income - that most people asking such things take granted.
3, You must produce your life expenses. Even if you somehow manage the IP case, it will just cost more over time, which you won't be able to finance.
4, Your business model was based upon incomes that due to you. If that does not happen you are facing much more serious problems, than to care to sue the bastard screwing over you.
5, You find a real job instead and slowly pay back your debts: the money you spent on developing the project...
6, You don't look back after a while: any minute spent on something that just costs money is one more minute wasted.
7, It is typical the these screwing over issues "normally" happen if you do not have a legal representative in the offenders country. Even phonebills will be prohibiting after a while, but different legal systems, proceedings, conditions all make sure the bastard can get away with it.

I am positive both Metin and I already pointed out the logic how it works and why several times, and there are few people - maybe on this board as well - who could contribute to these clauses as well.
Basically: only sell stuff to companies legally responsible fully in your countries, or make sure you team up with people who can represent you in your partners' country. You can avoid all these shit things happening as the "tempatation factor" of ripping you off will converge to zero if your partner sees he can be looked after properly.
Any other way you will be ripped off.
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Old 07 September 2003, 17:52   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by manicx 1. They are serious: This can only be good
I meant they are serious referring to the potentiality of their criminal activities. As in: a puch is non-serious criminal event, murdering someone is a serious criminal event.

In what IP is referred to, H&P's are extremely serious, as mentioned, i doubt they get any more serious. By reading your post, i get the impression your are not totally aware of the range and extent of H&P's extra curricular activities.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx 2. They ripped off people: We don't know anything.
Small corrections: "Many people," and "I don't know."

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx If somebody was ripping me off
You would have to be producing professional programming output and signing contracts and possibly NDA's for that. You aren't - i assume & presume - which is usually people's number one problem with understading both the background and the environment of these questions.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx I would sue him and win the case.
I don't doubt that could happen in any Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Unfortunately in the real world, if you sued, you'd end up with no money, debts, possibly defended by an unexperient lawer in IP matters, lose the case, and even risking getting sued by H&P back.

Again, this is the number one problem with people usually commenting these issues - besides the nearly pseudo religious tones to it - they don't or never had any real world experience in cases as such.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx So, if people were ripped off, why don't they sue them.
If you had any experience or knowledge of real world situations as opposed to elusive movie scripts, you'd know how actually and unfortunately none of the rights you speak of can be acessed.

And, after working for a couple of years and getting his work stolen, how much Šnima do you think he has to spent another couple of years basically going from "personal bankruptcy" into "deeply in debt."

Nevermind the psychological ramblings of being 4 or 5 years with no real work\pay relationship, which can never be repayed.

Then, after that half a decade of labour, no sleep and debts, what would he do with his Amitlhon? Burn it in a CD and sell them a pop in ebay.com...

I don't think you understand the real world unfortunate circumstances these hard working professionals who provide you applications and content live under.

To me these settings only outline and underline the inherent dishonest, amoral, and sadistic nature of some of these events.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx Basically, people can say whatever they say. I may set up a website and say "H&P ripped me off".
So - I'm not really disagreeing with you - Bernie is a nutcase - a thieving nutcase at that - and probably should be commited instead of programming professional & commercial software?

Everyone else that has ever accused H&P, and god knows they were many, are apparently hordes of either ignorant and malinformed types or just plain evil doers with a mysterious fixation on this precise company.

Again, it really can be true, however once you put possiblity A against possiblity B and from a distance attempt to make a decision, it can really be refreshing to notice which one is more likely to be the case.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx People will comisserate me.
Or attack you rabidly at loyalty with a corporation which has more money than you, more acess to lawyers than you, more resources than you, and more popular following than you.

A couple of sod's like me may comiserate, but that's not much, is it?

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx As I said, we are end users and have no bloody idea about contracts (...), business laws etc.
Again, you should really be using the I instead of the We...

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx Time is passing really fast and all I can think now, is why the hell I was not buying more original software before 95. After 95 I am only with originals, before that it was a messy situation. I ripped off companies and developers and nearly everyone in this board did. It's ridiculous to comment on the sins of others without self critisizing our own crap.
If we ask forgiveness to the GODS of H&P, perhaps they'll atone our sins. Maybe we should flagelate ourselves and our pockets at the behest of H&P. And, then, maybe we'll fell less guitly. Even that, is a stolen idea 2000 years old.

On piracy: It's very nice that you feel guilty by that situation, i feel too, and hopefully most people do. However if piracy killed platforms - PC would be dead, PSX=Dead, N64=Dead, GBA=Dead. What kills platforms is bad managemnt, incompetent and\or greedy accounting, and lack of product quality.

Windows3.1 was the most pirated software ever. Period. I typed www.microsoft.com, and surprisinly they were still there, i typed www.commodore.com and got nothing.

Again, if you feel guilty - it only shows you're a moral person - remember that two wrongs don't make a right.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx H&P did absolutely nothing bad comparing to many companies that ripped off people in the past
This statement leads me to believe you're not fully ware of the whole situation's history.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx and they abandoned the Amiga when the Amiga was needing them.
You mean The Bitmap Brothers? Codemasters? Infogrames?

Those bastards! They had nothing to do with sucess of the Amiga... H&P was the man!

Well, those people left the Amiga for good reason. You know, as mentioned in my previous post, competent professionals leave the boat when they see incompetent management.

In fact the managment 'abandoned' the developers, the content creators and the publishers. So, they left.

You know, maybe a vagabond dog also calls his fleas, friends, and, 'The only ones have stuck with me.'

But we, all looking at the situation from outside, realise they're just parasites sucking what little blood is left, aren't they?

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx Go, on, blame H&P. As I said, if you uninstall all the software they released for the Amiga, you'll end up with a computer booting a nice gray screen. I
Well, that's just a matter of taste, but i actually love plain WB's...

For a real, modern, digital desktop solution? Well, i use real, modern, digital desktop solutions. Again, just taste.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx think, it's ridiculous to comment on H&P and not other companies who killed the Amiga.
So I shouldn't point my finger at Charles Manson, without pointing it at the other thousands of murders through history. It's a complete fallacy.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx As I said, my A4k is happy to use H&P software.
Oh, i'm not saying otherwise, quite the contrary, mine would be probably 'happy' as well - to the extent machines can be antropomorphised - just my human conscience wouldn't.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx I am happy to use their software.
Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly happy with adultery too, it's when i think about what would be my betrayed wife that it gets problematic.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx If there is a problem, let the courts decide.
Small correction: it's not a problem, they're several, completely unrelated, and recurrent throughout history, problems. I don't even believe the latest problem was the most serious in the curriculum of H&P.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx I am an end user and I buy the best.
The best in what...? You do realise that buying stolen IP is just putting an intermediary in piracy ... i.e.- you go from pirating the publishers, to pirating the developer. In the former the developer gets payed, but the publishers gets stolen. In the later, the developer gets robbed, but the publisher gets payed. Sure, you do shift the crime from the user, to the publisher, which is the one now who's commiting it. But, that's it.

And that's the reason why soon no one will develop nothing for the amiga platform. No one's up to work for two years for nothing and getting their IP stolen. Unless you are?

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx Basically, I believe that
Not wanting to interfere with your beliefs and mini religion going on there, I hope in a handful of years you won't be thinking about how, let me quote you : "Time is passing really fast and all I can think now, is why the hell I was not buying more non-IP-stolen software before 2000. After 2000 I am only with non stolen IP originals, before that it was a messy situation. I ripped off developers and gave money to the ones stealing it."

Of course, then as now, you'll be saying. "Too late." Hopefully competent programmers such as Bernie will be happily working on greener pastures by then.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx people who are against current Amiga software retailers, are harmful to the Amiga, so well done.
I don't 'believe', I am one hundred per cent absolutely sure, for a fact, that the continuation stealing of IP from Amiga developers will result in their absolute and complete extinction.

So, "Well done."

Anyway, I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion about such heated up matters. It's good when things happen this way. I hope you understood most of the points i attempted to make
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Old 08 September 2003, 10:36   #32
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Well this is an answer to both statements above:

Quote:
You would have to be producing professional programming output and signing contracts and possibly NDA's for that. You aren't - i assume & presume - which is usually people's number one problem with understading both the background and the environment of these questions.
I am a professional software developer. I have been in the IT market since I was 16 when I actually wrote some stuff for the ST and translated TOS to Greek. At the moment, I am developing software related to e-commerce and this is what I am paid for. So, I have full knowledge on the issue, and in matter of fact, full knowledge to the business issue as well due to my business related studies and my working experience for one year in Seagate as an Assistant Manager.

Anyhoo, it seems to me that you ignore the way justice works. If you need money to get into a case LIKE THIS, you can actually win the case and get twice the figure you paid for the court expenses. We are talking for international law and H&P is not Micro$oft. It's just a company in the IT sector and it doesn't make the the evangelists in international law. If justice was like that, we would have been in total anarchy and nothing would have worked so far. So, developing conspiracy theories about suing H&P and being you the one that gets sued is probably a scenario for a hollywood movie. This is real life guys, so please get real.

Basically, when I was employed by companies in the past, I had to sign a CONTRACT. I suppose the same happens to all people out there. I read carefully my contract before signing in, in matter of fact it took me more than 4 hours to read and highlight the important points. Now, this contract involves two parts:

-the individual
-the company (represented by the manager)

It is clear that you are not the only person you may blew up things but the company too. You have a contract. If the individual gets mistreated according to his contract, he can sue the company and vice versa.

Basically, as long as the Amithlon guy is just another software developer known only to a small community, approaching the community about his story with H&P looks very suspicious. We know shitnothing about his contract with H&P, we don't know the guy(chatting on the IRC or exchanging emails or meeting him once in your life is not the right way to say you know him) and we have utterly no knowledge on the issue. I believe that his action to approach the community and turn them against the company is a big minus for him. He shows a person with little or no professionalism at all. I think that if this guy will want to get employed by another company and describe his story and the way he reacted, he would get a kick in his ass. Easiest thing today is to write code, most difficult thing is to master YOUR code and demonstrate professionalism. For me, the guy behaved like a loser and that's how I see him. On the other hand, you see people like Oliver Castl who built a small empire themselves starting from the Amiga. This is called professionalism.

Now, regarding H&P, I cannot commend on anything. If people do not sue them and all they do is to set up a website and accuse them, well, this tell me nothing at all. A company has set a target and so far they managed to survive in a small market. They released quality products and they can only be judged for that. Having 10-20 people saying "H&P mistreated us" (just saying, nothing else) and beg for comiseration in the internet, makes me laugh. If I judge H&P now, I will only judge them for their products and for being in the market for longer than expected. They released excellent products, they are releasing excellent products and I am sure they will continue to do as long as us, Amiga users think about the computer sitting in front of us for nearly 18 years now. People who want to end that, can just set up a webpage made out with Frontpage and say whatever they want...
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Old 08 September 2003, 17:38   #33
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DISCLAIMER
We are not talking about HP here, this is general.

I am glad you are one of the people who have a shitload of money to start a case like that, and to support continual financing of the legal proceedings in a foreign country with different laws, local and foreign lawyers and law firms and IP specialists.
Like I've already pointed out very clearly normally this is not the case with most developers, like small companies or freelancers.
The contract in this case worth less than the paper it is written on.
Obviously if someone is this bloody rich, can work on a project for years, have zero income and still being able to start suing the other company under those circumstances: god bless him, he is doing it to teach those bastards a lesson, and not because he does need any of the money for real - it is very clear from the situation described.
Unfortunately many people are not in the same situation and do need an income for living a life, quite possibly much lower quality than what they could afford if they were not so determined to make a good product and sacrifice years of their life on such a bizarre idea.
The idea of loosing even more money is not that attractive to developers on a very tight budget, possibly looking for real jobs after incidents like this. Actually in the fields mentioned: the real IT world. Not niche machines, not games nothing really creative just get a monthly income and hope to forget all the shit happened before.
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Old 08 September 2003, 19:48   #34
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Firstly, I'm neither for nor against H &P in any great way. If they are guilty of something bad, then when it's proved I'll berate them.

I can't speak for all countries, but certainly in the UK, in cases such as this, you pay virtually nothing until the case is settled. Any lawyer worth his salt will decide beforehand whether or not the case is worth pursuing. If he thinks it is, he will then be paid out of the damages awarded. If potential employees or sub-contractors enter in to an agreement, they need to be sure of what they are getting in to. For a small fee, you can have have a contract checked by a lawyer, and you can prevent (or at least minimise) the kind of acts alleged here. Seems like common sense to me.

Look around, see how many companies (good or bad) are left supporting the Amiga. Not many, and we should be grateful that there are any left. At the end of the day, nobody forces people to work for them, and contracts are there to protect both parties. I seriously doubt that H & P can afford to pay large amounts of damages to anybody, so they have to be careful too.
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Old 08 September 2003, 20:06   #35
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Sorry IanS, it is only true e.g for the UK if you are an UK resident. (like said you should deal under the laws of your own country or make sure you have legal backing at the other one)
Or in fact a resident of any of the countries whose companies you are going to deal with. Also lawyers/lawfirms are normally not allowed to take surefire cases. 11 Years ago it would have cost at least gbp 20k upfront even to start a surefire IP case at any firm, due to inflation etc. I expect that amount to double by now at least.
It does not matter how often you get a publishing deal inspected even if you have the world's best ever deal under these circumstances (international publishing deal, no residency in the offenders country etc) if you don't have a huge pile of money to go after a bastard you just can't win no matter how hard you try.
A very sad fact of life.
Remember we are talking about international legal stuff, not local, and a publishing deal not a work or other regular contract.
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Old 08 September 2003, 21:23   #36
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Cool

Sorry IFW, but i've been completely convinced.

I now fully believe Bernd is positively nuts. He has some sort of egomaniac disorder that lead him to abandon his work at after two years, and go on a rampaging victimisation campaign with only one interest in mind: Getting attention.

Perhaps, he is anti-Amiga. Who knows.

Right now, i kinda feel for H&P, they got screwed and ended up with IP on their hands they never created, and now, they're forced to sell it and make money. While at the same time Bernie laughs all his way to his 10 to 12 to god knows what hours job, no longer having to carry the load of owning his own IP.

Honestly i don't know how H&P copes with it. I, wouldn't. Thankfully they get lucky when contracting people that take others company's applications source code to them. Not that it is much help....after all, the do have to carry the load of selling it and making money. Sometimes, it just seems the suffering has no end.

Right now i kinda look back at all the print media insiders and programmers that told me all those stories and kinda feel sad. Why does the world have people like this? Clearly, the Amiga is making big impact on the desktop market, look at AI's site, they're touring all over the world and the heads are turning. Competitors are afraid. Very afraid. Too much afraid... it seems.

Of course there's people that are trying to keep the Amiga down. But i tell you: With heroes like H&P, it's an unstopable force to be reckoned with.

Right now i spit on the grave of the likes of Cinemaware, Renegade, Imageworks, Codemasters, Factor 5 and all those traitors that abandoned the Amiga in the gravest hour of need. Heck, i tell you what, what does the Amiga needs them for anyway...?

Fact is H&P was the only one that stood up and keeps supporting the Amiga. It only takes a look and comparing to see the differences. The Amiga never was a brighter star than today, and if there's someone we can thank, it's H&P for it.

If just the world wasn't filled with greedy developers that demand to get payed, we'd have a lot more Amiga software. Think about it! You may call me a dreamer, but i'm not the only one.

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Old 09 September 2003, 11:00   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by IFW
DISCLAIMER
We are not talking about HP here, this is general.

I am glad you are one of the people who have a shitload of money to start a case like that, and to support continual financing of the legal proceedings in a foreign country with different laws, local and foreign lawyers and law firms and IP specialists.
Like I've already pointed out very clearly normally this is not the case with most developers, like small companies or freelancers.
The contract in this case worth less than the paper it is written on.
The topic is H&P is back. So if it was to be a topic about something else then we need to have a separate topic. All I care at the moment is that H&P is back. A freelancer BTW, works for free. And bear in mind that any developer/employee from a EU country has the same rights in any country within the block. It's a different story for the Americans but basically, laws regarding employee rights in the civilized world are 99.9% the same.

A contract is a contract and has a lot of value. In matter of fact, more than you can ever imagine. A typical example is the football contracts where the amounts of money spent are huge. A team may not pay a footballer=> it's relegated.

Same goes for big companies. Even micro$oft starts to feel the pain from the kick in their arse. Latest edition of winXP I installed didn't have MS JVM in. So happy about that. Nobody is god and nobody is the evangelist of business law. You have rights and you have to fight for them. Setting up a webpage to protest about being ripped off is unproffesional.
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Old 09 September 2003, 15:21   #38
IFW
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LOL.
I don't want to hurt your feelings so I made it clear for me it is a topic to help you understand how the ripping-off thing can happen at any company and with anyone dealing with a foreign country.
You've written about why not going to court etc. I've explained why in detail.
A freelancer is a person who does work for different companies, does not have an exclusive contract working for with just one company, in other words contractual work that is the norm in publishing. It has nothing to do with working for free... unless ripped-off.
No, EU ("civilized world" rotfl) is not as good as you think as of yet.
Someday hopefully it will be, but it could be decades still.
We are at the period the US was more than a hundred years ago about creating a federal system with common rights, common laws, common money, common military, common policy etc.
At the moment you'd be in really deep shit - ok you are very rich so maybe not, but others will be - if you had a court case about a publishing deal busted not in your country, Greece.
All cases mentioned btw are people dealing with a company not in their own country)
Sure you have the rights, but without big money your rights exist only on paper, period. It is more than likely you won't be able to fight for them (minus you rich folks). While setting up a page about what happened may look in a world where money is not of concern and developers are expected to give away their work for free so others can sell them without paying the authors... unprofessional, it is the only thing Bernie and other can do. Rest assured they've tried everything within their budget to resolve the matters before going to public - the last thing that dies is hope. When they were sure all their money was lost they made aware the people about what the company does - so don't blame them to have the right for at least to let the world now what happened; a world that may be still buying the product in good faith thinking the money goes to the right hands.

Last edited by IFW; 09 September 2003 at 15:27.
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Old 09 September 2003, 18:30   #39
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We'll never be at the same stage as the good old US. Or at least I hope not. And in America you can sue anybody for anything, no matter how stupid. Some of the things you see and hear beggar belief.

At the end of the day, your contract of employment, and the way you safeguard your own IP and copyright are of vital importance. As a programmer (or whatever else you provide), if you are not happy with your employment... don't work for them.

If Bernie wanted to scupper H & P, he could always release HIS work as some sort of freeware. How can H & P sell things that people can download for free?
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Old 09 September 2003, 18:56   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by manicx
A freelancer BTW, works for free.
Do you know what you are saying? I have been working for YEARS as a freelancer and it does not mean I work for free. Read what IFW posted for the definition of freelance.
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