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Old 13 August 2001, 21:30   #1
Maverick357
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Cloanto 'Amiga for ever' is cheat not very usefull !!!

I have look again in my original cd-rom of Cloanto "Amiga for ever 4" and i am very disapointed.
In fact, the cd-rom is full of useless things if you look it closer.

I say that because, you pay for getting roms / workbench of the Amiga and what you get ??

The roms = OK, you need it, they have no other choice to give it.
It cost nothing to dump it, and you need an KeyFile to use it.

The workbench system = BAD, BAD, BAD
I will explain:
1) You get only the first Wb disk set, not the second, ect.. disk.
Useless if you want emulate totally the Amiga and doing something else than playing.
You cannot install yourself an OS on HD, for example.

I have all this day, try to install a new hd from the workbench without the others disks.
The only real solution whas to download the workbench on the internet.
And i have the right of get the full set of Amiga Workbench, i have paid for it !
It is a real shame i think.

2) You don't get any manual of the different version of the Workbench or the different Cli commands.
I have the chance, that i remember good somes usefull instructions/ use of the workbench/cli, but for the others users that have never had an Amiga and discover his wonderfull OS for the first time through the emulation, then he his completely lost.

3) The cd-roms is filled (to justify the prize) with useless datas, like the very bad movie (this is certainly not a professionnal cameraman that have done it, he can not stop of moving the camera from one side to other side in place of keep the camera stable on one place, you can't look good at what you see).
With others sound in wav format (an interview i think), and so on.

I have always protect cloanto about the piracy of the roms, when i see in differents forums asking for roms and kickstart.
But for now, i think that Cloanto do not real something for the Amiga community.
How much of all the $$$ gain with the sold of cd-rom is used for create new software for the Amiga, or for support for real the Amiga emulation.
Not a cent, i think.
In fact, Cloanto make the last $$$ with the Amiga and let it die.


Now i know, that the Amiga dream i really dead !
How can new users (users that have never had an Amiga) become interested in this old Wonderfull computer if the cannot use it for other things than play with old games.

For example, the Atari ST have all romset freely downloadable.

The very good Spectrum is more active in emulation than the Amiga community.
I explain:
1) I you look at what are searching the Amiga users (emulation users) of today at one internet site is ... adf of games, that all

I have searched a site that have something than just a lot of ADF, but find nothing.

Look at WOS, http://www.void.jump.org/ that quality internet that offer not only software for free, but you can get all free like:

Free roms of the spectrum (the OS roms), the OS manuals, the story of the creator of the Spectrum (Lord Sinclair), the story of the games, the story of the peripherals for the Spectrums, the Advertising for thousands games with scanning in colors, the scanning of thousands of covers and pages of magazines for the Spectrum, Maps and solutions for thousand of games, an very good forum the speak about the good old Spectrum and the games.
And a lot of links to others specialized Spectrums sites: Dizzy collections, Ultimate (the game software company), ect...

That is what i call an Computer fan world emulation alive.
That is what i call, do something to help for emulation community.
All is free, roms, manuals, ect... and if you need help, you just have to ask, and a lot of people are ready to help (i have help a lot of people already for the Spectrum and for others computers emulation like MAME).

This forum is very good, is usefull for all things about the Amiga, this is a very good internet site like a lot of links here.

But i think personnaly, that emulate a computer is more than just play with it nothing else.

I am very happy when i download from WOS an advertising of a game that i have see it 15 years ago, when i read technicals informations or story of how this game is made (interview of the authors).

I have never see this sort of support in the Amiga community, and Cloanto do no help the Amiga emulation world community with the selling of a stupid cd-rom incomplete.
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Old 13 August 2001, 22:23   #2
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I think Amiga Forever is an excellent package..

You get all the Rom Files, the WB Adf files (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.04 and 2.1) and Amiga Explorer..

You are paying for the ROM files and the WB files. Cloanto state they wanted to go for a classic workbench look. Its up to you how you change that and update it (you could always install AIAB)

I wouldn't recommend getting the CD over the Online Edition though, as the CD only comes with a few more extra's..

You say that Cloanto are making the last $$$ on the Amiga... Then why don't you actually go out and buy OS 3.5/3.9 off Amiga and support them with your money, you also have to remember that Cloanto have to pay Amiga for the license in the first place to distribute the roms and wb files, I don't think Cloanto are getting rich off supporting the Amiga emu community in this way.

Cloanto have been a long time Amiga developer and I believe they need to be supported. If you want to get the roms of your Amiga, fine! That's the first thing you should do.. But if you don't have an Amiga anymore and want to relieve the experience then buy amiga forever and help support the Amiga and a long time Amiga company and also get an excellent package!
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Old 13 August 2001, 22:26   #3
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Mav, I completely agree with you. Though the Cloanto pack is the only legal way for some people to emulate the Amiga, it's really a piece of shite. I agree that the old ROMs should be freely available, but Amiga Inc., a bunch of money hungry bastards, will never let this happen.

Also, I cannot agree more, emulation, to me, is not just about 'getting a free game'... that's why I dont like emulation today as much as I used to. I started using emulation to investigate about the systems I never got to use. Thanks to emulation I learned to use many systems I don't have yet, and I also got to buy many systems I never heard of, and I liked so much thru emulation that I had to get the real thing (like the Amstrad CPC)

If you want to box scans and similar stuff about Amiga games, go to eXotica, I know you will like this site The music collection itself is worth a visit. I know I have it almost all

There's nothing like the real thing
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Old 13 August 2001, 22:33   #4
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Well Kickstarts 1.x -> 2.x should be free... but 3.1 shouldn't.

While I don't agree with the way Amiga inc are going I still don't think that you should just help your self to there most "current" hardware for free.... The older roms, however, that aren't used, or even sold by Amiga anymore, should be released...

I agree with the nothing beats the real thing though I'll have to get all my Amiga's out and play on them again some day (when i have time, which is never :hooooo )

I might be slightly bias towards cloanto though.. The ceo there has supported Jambo! throughout the years (free prizes software etcc...) Associate cloanto with good things. But still, Amiga forever = excellent amiga emu resource for beginners, buy it
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Old 13 August 2001, 22:40   #5
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Jambo:

Have you the cd-rom at your house ?
If yes look at it seriously close, and you will see that what i say is true

Quote:
You get all the Rom Files, the WB Adf files (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.04 and 2.1) and Amiga Explorer..
False You get only the first disk of each release, useless without the fonts, the extras, ect...

Quote:
I wouldn't recommend getting the CD over the Online Edition though, as the CD only comes with a few more extra's..
I have both of it, the Online AND the cd-rom release (original with a licence serial number FOR BOTH).


Quote:
Then why don't you actually go out and buy OS 3.5/3.9 off Amiga and support them with your money,
I have order it now about 2-3 weeks ago by my Amiga dealer (now i must wait because the shop is closed for hollydays), the Amiga OS 3.9 will be here in 6 weeks or more, i am just waiting for it.

But remenber that it will be useless without the FULL Workbench 3.1, because he is needed for install it . and the Amiga for ever DON'T HAVE THE FULL VERSION, ONLY THE FIRST DISK.



Quote:
Cloanto have been a long time Amiga developer and I believe they need to be supported. If you want to get the roms of your Amiga, fine! That's the first thing you should do.. But if you don't have an Amiga anymore and want to relieve the experience then buy amiga forever and help support the Amiga and a long time Amiga company and also get an excellent package
Read my first post, I have it buy, both of it, this is why i can speak about
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Old 13 August 2001, 22:45   #6
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Jambo, indeed, only OLD ones should be released for free... 3.x and up not, since they are still used by Amigas today.

Everybody who has an AMiga, take it out and play it. You won't want to go back to emulation, EVER again!
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Old 13 August 2001, 23:03   #7
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Quote:
Well Kickstarts 1.x -> 2.x should be free... but 3.1 shouldn't.
I am not a pirate, i buy the software when i can get it here in Belgium or when the software is sold today again.

It take me one year of hard searching to buy the original cd-rom here in Europe, and what i get for the prize is very disapointing.
I can find in one minut better workbench xx (with full set of disks totally free), but i want support all companys that take alive an old computer (and not only the Amiga, i have an cd-rom for Spectrum too).

Quote:
The older roms, however, that aren't used, or even sold by Amiga anymore, should be released...
Sorry to say you that, but the Workbench 3.1 is not a 'new' AmigaOS.
This is an old release that you need to update to AmigaOS 3.5/3.9.

If only the 'Cloanto' give away for free the workbench 3.1 (full sets of disk) and sell the AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 (he can make an adf DemoDisk add of the AmigaOS 3.1 set for advertising and say 'hey look how to the AmigaOS 3.5 is better and what is interesting for').
That will be more interesting for Cloanto and for the real users.

In fact, sold of update that need an previous release to be installed, whait ... i remember, ... yes that is ! The Microsoft system of politics system.



Quote:
I might be slightly bias towards cloanto though.. The ceo there has supported Jambo! throughout the years (free prizes software etcc...) Associate cloanto with good things. But still, Amiga forever = excellent amiga emu resource for beginners, buy it
Ok, Jambo, i understand better why you don't want see the true of that

For the cd-rom i have it, and i can speak about.
The cd-rom is BAD, BAD, BAD
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Old 13 August 2001, 23:07   #8
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I have nothing against you Jambo.
I find your site very good

But you must speak true, the Amiga for ever cd-rom is not worth it.
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Old 13 August 2001, 23:27   #9
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Well we both have different opinions

I would always recommend the Amiga forever package to anyone who asks where to get a kickstart, and also people new to amiga emulation. It takes all the effort out of setting everything up, and the results are very good (and Amiga Explorer is aswell, another program given away FREE on Jambo! )

Anyway, that's just imho!
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Old 14 August 2001, 00:15   #10
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Akira:

Yes, Akira, this site 'Exotica' i a good one and seem to be very interesting.
I will look this week more in details when i have more time.
For now i must work on my hd workbench (i am checking (for corrupt disk) and defrag a lot of Amiga disk

It is a surprise why disks are not automatically defragmented after the final version.

One of the Workbench system disk is at 67% fragmanted...
Aie, aie, aie this is not good
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Old 14 August 2001, 13:22   #11
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Question Maverick/Brussels/Amiga

Maverick, where do you get your Amiga stuff in Brussels? I work in Brussels, and I guess it's about the only city here in Belgium where there's a chance of getting recent Amiga stuff...
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Old 14 August 2001, 14:22   #12
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LaundroMat:

For Amiga stuff difficult to find here in Europe , you can go there: http://www.compcity.nl/pc/index.htm, this is an webshop located in Netherlands (spreak neederlands or English, so as you like ) and you can pay on a Belgium account or with others methods of payements (more details on the site).

They send you, if you ask it, a free paper catalog every 3 months or every news stuff.
They have a very good quantity of different Amiga stuff (hardware and software).

Other else, when i can find it here in Brussel, i go at: http://get.to/genamiga.

It is there where i have order the AmigaOS 3.9 cd-rom.
You can order through email too if you want (that is what i do always here) and you can ask info about stuff too if needed.

Hope this can help you.
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Old 21 August 2001, 10:48   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maverick357
This is an old release that you need to update to AmigaOS 3.5/3.9.
Not completely true : For AmigaOS 3.9 there is no need to have AmigaOS3.1 as there is a FULL installation on the CD, not only an UPDATE function

cu .......
//RCK: do not use Direct signature, use UserCP instead !
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Old 29 July 2004, 00:08   #14
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I bought number 6 now from cloanto with the Pluspack i needed KICK 2 + WB 2.1,
i programmed under Kick 2 assembler and wanted to start where i left of and then move to 3.X only i found out that you get disk 1 of the 5 so you cannot install a hardfile.

When i found this out i was really getting mad i have looked round the internet and i saw Cloanto is very agressive in putting sites down who host kick and WB disks.

The point i am making is here things are not right follow my logic.

If someone puts Kick 2.04 with the 5 disks onto a site the strange thing is that they summon you(cloanto) to get rit off the 5 disks not only the Workbench disk they include with the 'Forever stuff' but the remaining 4 disks as well.

In short words they sell a crippled produkt and they put not an explecit warning
You only get disk 1 of 5 so you cannot create and install an Hardfile. Who wants 2.0
for games 1.3 is for most games enough.

So in a way they are misleading honest buyers and i mean he who buys the pluspack.

I have contacted Cloanto about this isue and will post their reaction here.

My advice for all people who also bought the Pluspack ask for the missing disks you have paid for them otherwise they wouldnt ask people to get those remaining disks of their websites.
 
Old 29 July 2004, 01:04   #15
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Amiga explorer is a nice program itself, very useful moving adfs to disks in an idiotproof way.
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Old 29 July 2004, 09:35   #16
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What gets me is that as a commercial enterprise Claonto seem to rely on user boards such as this to help users who have problems. If they are making money [which they are obviously] then they should go to greater lengths to help new users.
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Old 29 July 2004, 14:13   #17
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Can't a registered user email them directly about problems?
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