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Old 10 August 2003, 09:03   #1
Unknown_K
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The turning point in gaming

What game in what year on the IBM PC finally started to be better then the same game on the amiga? Or what game came out on the PC that the amiga could not do for whatever reason (graphics, memory, sound, etc).

This is not to start a flame war between pc's and amiga's. I just want to make sure I have all of the cool games on the amiga that were better then the same type on the PC.

There was a long stretch of time where the amiga was the better game machine then the PC priod. I just want the opinions of people who lived through that period as a gamer and what finally made them switch or admit the PC was better. I went from a C64 to a 286 so I wasnt into amiga games at the time (I now have 60-70 boxed classic amiga games now and enjoy them alot).
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Old 10 August 2003, 09:49   #2
Fred the Fop
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Unk, nice thread, mental provoking.
Mental.
As a robot with an eyepatch, I have to say not many games interest me besides Mahjong and bowling games.
Anyway, the coolest moment, the defining day when video gaming changed?
First we must admit that the basic thing here is that Moorola gaming kicked the hell out of IBM gaming anyday, whether it was the Amiga, Macintosh/Apple or Atari St.
As for the moment that the PC beat out Amiga games in same game compaariosions?
Never. I have tried many of these, such as Dogfight, Secret Of Monkey Island, Deja Vu 2....
Always lame and just cruddy on the IBM.
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Old 10 August 2003, 09:57   #3
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I compared one of my old time favorites Dune 2 on the PC and the amiga and they are close in gameplay, sound, and visuals. I have xcom and for some reason I like it on the PC better but thats from memory since I havnt played it in a while.
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Old 10 August 2003, 10:19   #4
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For me it would have to be around the Quake/Quake 2 timeframe. It really went ballistic for me when Half-Life came out

However, there is a vast difference between the two platforms, since I'd have to say that really the Demos/Megademos on the Amiga just plain kicked any machines ass, past, present and still into the future. There are some great PC demos to be sure but they, for some reason, don't have the same look and sound quality that the Amiga gives you.

Again, I strayed from the specific topic a bit, but I think in a way, demos are really a peak into the technology that powers them, this is why the Amiga is so far ahead of it's time.

Guess I'm getting a bad cause of nastalgia here, so I'll leave it at that
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Old 10 August 2003, 10:39   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmmijo
For me it would have to be around the Quake/Quake 2 timeframe. It really went ballistic for me when Half-Life came out

However, there is a vast difference between the two platforms, since I'd have to say that really the Demos/Megademos on the Amiga just plain kicked any machines ass, past, present and still into the future. There are some great PC demos to be sure but they, for some reason, don't have the same look and sound quality that the Amiga gives you.

Again, I strayed from the specific topic a bit, but I think in a way, demos are really a peak into the technology that powers them, this is why the Amiga is so far ahead of it's time.

Guess I'm getting a bad cause of nastalgia here, so I'll leave it at that
I never thaught demo's were a good indicator of what a machine could do because they used 100% of the resources of the machine just for eye candy and sound. Alot of the cpu power in some games goes for AI of the enemy, storing maps in memory, user interface, different levels and screens etc.

I seen demo's on the PS2 and some nvidia cards for the PC that were fancier then any game for those particular machinese ever could make use of while doing other things.

I can tell that AI in current games really take up cpu time like when I play Age Of Empires: The conquerors with 5 computers and 200 units each the xp1500 system slows down a bit.
I assume the AI in amiga games would be fighting for processor power also (and there is less to go around).

BTW Quake came out in 1996, way after the amiga's were not competative with PC's for gaming (I think dos games peaked in quality about 1994, win95 came out in 1995-6 or so and everything started going directx)

Last edited by Unknown_K; 10 August 2003 at 14:58.
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Old 10 August 2003, 11:58   #6
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I could no longer resist buying a PeeCee when the 3DFX Voodoo graphics cards came out. I bought a RealVision Flash3D as soon as it was available and had a lot of fun playing GLQuake and QuakeWorld (multi-player). 3D graphics were really exciting at the time but now most modern 3D games don't hold much interest for me. I will however be upgrading my box for Half Life 2 and Doom 3!

I've been tempted to wait for the AmigaOne but then I realized that apart from OS4.0 it'd feel more like a downgrade than an upgrade. There will be no cool games like HL2, and what games the AmigaOne does get will be old PC ports.
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Old 10 August 2003, 14:02   #7
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The AmigaOne will only be useful for desktop applications, word processing, video production, etc.
Anyone who thinks it will attract serious game publishing is out of their gourd. What we have seen, or, rather, not seen - remember it's been out nearly 10 months now - proves this. No excuses that OS4 is not complete! OS 3.9 should easily handle game publishing on a G3.
Don't anyone fool themselves into thinking that AmigaOne will harken the return the greatest gaming rig ever.
OS4 and Morph OS do like really nice tho!
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Old 10 August 2003, 14:40   #8
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F29 Retaliator. It was released on peecee one year or more after the amiga and st. I guess was when you started to note the firsts negative differences for amiga.
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Old 10 August 2003, 14:49   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by JudasEZT
F29 Retaliator. It was released on peecee one year or more after the amiga and st. I guess was when you started to note the firsts negative differences for amiga.
Was it the same game on both systems? I assume it was a rewrite and not a quick port (there are quite a few PS2 games ported to the PC these days that suck ass).

I checked mobygames and F29 came out in 1991 for the PC, thats before the A1200 was out. Are you saying that even with the release of the Amiga 1200 amiga games were not as good as PC games were in 1991 or just the flight sims?
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Old 10 August 2003, 14:55   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frootloop
I could no longer resist buying a PeeCee when the 3DFX Voodoo graphics cards came out. I bought a RealVision Flash3D as soon as it was available and had a lot of fun playing GLQuake and QuakeWorld (multi-player). 3D graphics were really exciting at the time but now most modern 3D games don't hold much interest for me. I will however be upgrading my box for Half Life 2 and Doom 3!

I've been tempted to wait for the AmigaOne but then I realized that apart from OS4.0 it'd feel more like a downgrade than an upgrade. There will be no cool games like HL2, and what games the AmigaOne does get will be old PC ports.
I mailordered the very first 3dfx voodoo 1 board that came out (Orchid Righteous 3d) before it was available in any stores. The first real game that was supported was Tomb Raider (needed a patch). It was very different and really turned me onto 3d gaming at the time (along with quake 1). I sold that card after I purchased a voodoo2 but got another one for my p200 dos box this year ($5 why not).
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Old 10 August 2003, 15:34   #11
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One way to answer this question (if anyone can be bothered to help) is to draw up some timelines spanning 1989-1996 side-by-side for maybe 4-5 platforms (I propose Amiga, PC, Consoles (generic), C64 and Atari ST) so we can watch the major developments as they happened. As one platform rises in popularity (units sold, games released etc.) another crumbles (magazines close, no more games released, etc.)

I think it would make for an interesting illustration.

I'm a firm believer that the influx of cutesy platform games on the Amiga in 1994-5 was against market demand and lead to many softies pulling out and jumping over to consoles where cutesy games had their natural home (children). At the same time, I think there was a massive demand (which largely went unfulfilled) for more games like Settlers, Syndicate, Gods, etc. which were always very popular with the Amiga's slightly more mature userbase, and were starting to gain ground on the PC thanks to the advent of 3D and faster processors.

But what could the Amiga stalwarts do when all they had in production was yet more cutesy platform games (that had been popular 1-2 years previous and hitherto showed no signs of abating) for a platform that was forced into hiatus?

There are so many contributing factors that pushed people onto the PC and it wasn't confined to a particular year or period (I had Amiga-owning friends who leaped onto the PC in 1990 with a 286 machine - I remember someone telling me "listen! it can play Soundtracker modules!" and me thinking "well, yeah, so did your A500! Natively. Properly. What's up with you?" and this continued right the way through until 1997 when I was all alone with my Amiga (and copy of Poing 3) while the rest of the world was shooting things in Doom and Quake.

But anyway. This timeline idea - is it a good one? I think it would be quite entertaining to do.
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Old 10 August 2003, 15:56   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wright
One way to answer this question (if anyone can be bothered to help) is to draw up some timelines spanning 1989-1996 side-by-side for maybe 4-5 platforms (I propose Amiga, PC, Consoles (generic), C64 and Atari ST) so we can watch the major developments as they happened. As one platform rises in popularity (units sold, games released etc.) another crumbles (magazines close, no more games released, etc.)

I think it would make for an interesting illustration.

I'm a firm believer that the influx of cutesy platform games on the Amiga in 1994-5 was against market demand and lead to many softies pulling out and jumping over to consoles where cutesy games had their natural home (children). At the same time, I think there was a massive demand (which largely went unfulfilled) for more games like Settlers, Syndicate, Gods, etc. which were always very popular with the Amiga's slightly more mature userbase, and were starting to gain ground on the PC thanks to the advent of 3D and faster processors.

But what could the Amiga stalwarts do when all they had in production was yet more cutesy platform games (that had been popular 1-2 years previous and hitherto showed no signs of abating) for a platform that was forced into hiatus?

There are so many contributing factors that pushed people onto the PC and it wasn't confined to a particular year or period (I had Amiga-owning friends who leaped onto the PC in 1990 with a 286 machine - I remember someone telling me "listen! it can play Soundtracker modules!" and me thinking "well, yeah, so did your A500! Natively. Properly. What's up with you?" and this continued right the way through until 1997 when I was all alone with my Amiga (and copy of Poing 3) while the rest of the world was shooting things in Doom and Quake.

But anyway. This timeline idea - is it a good one? I think it would be quite entertaining to do.
Its an interesting idea, but the c64 was pretty much dead in 1989 when your proposed timeline starts and consoles are a different beast. It sounds like your friend got a PC for things other then gaming (like most people did), and some probably had both a PC and an amiga at the same time.

Just for a reference I went to amiga.mobygames.com and noted how many games they had listed over a few years for the amiga (to get some kind of idea of the platforms popularity from games released)

Year Games Released (all types)
1988 50
1989 71
1990 79
1991 54
1992 38
1993 35
1994 23
1995 8
1996 2

These are probably not complete listing of releases I bet, but it shows that releases probably peaked in 1990 and took a steep dive after 1994. Of course this doesnt have a corelation with quality of games released, or how they fared against the same games released on other platforms.

Last edited by Unknown_K; 10 August 2003 at 16:04.
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Old 10 August 2003, 17:14   #13
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Eek A cruel question !

..If we are to believe the magazines of the day { and since when did printed media guarentee the truth !} iT WAS THOUGHT { past tense not in light of common sense !} That the " miggy " gave the best solution across ALL platforms at its inception .
Once the benchmark was 3d gaming first on consoles then on PC because of increased PC graphic and processor speeds it was just a question of time till an original " miggy " was not " Comercially " worth " dumbing down " games for { I know its heresey !} .
It might be an " Emperors got no clothes on " truth but from the birth of the quake engine it was all down hill .
Thank you so much for making me feel worthless and suicidal on a previously " sunny " sunday ! :kill
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Old 10 August 2003, 17:45   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown_K
Was it the same game on both systems? I assume it was a rewrite and not a quick port (there are quite a few PS2 games ported to the PC these days that suck ass).

I checked mobygames and F29 came out in 1991 for the PC, thats before the A1200 was out. Are you saying that even with the release of the Amiga 1200 amiga games were not as good as PC games were in 1991 or just the flight sims?

I dont remember very well,. what I remember specially is that peecee version had clouds and a degree on the sky. Some amiga flightsims had also degree in sky, but they usually were copper bars which do not rotate with horizon.
That was very amazing to me at that time, and that it was fucking smooth without slowdowns. (amiga slowdowns let the spectacularity went down)

also, at that time anybody knew anything about news amiga.. at least at my town.

So that was the very first time I felt peecees were overpassing amiga. later was the release of Apache, WingCommander..
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Old 10 August 2003, 18:07   #15
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Here is more accurate Amiga data from the Hall Of Light on the number of games released in each year:

1985 3
1986 112
1987 308
1988 546
1989 678
1990 549
1991 702
1992 531
1993 429
1994 496
1995 264
1996 125
1997 56
1998 46
1999 22
2000 23
2001 31
2002 13
2003 6
Not dated 325

And a graph:
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Old 10 August 2003, 19:08   #16
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown_K
Its an interesting idea, but the c64 was pretty much dead in 1989 when your proposed timeline starts and consoles are a different beast.
Erm,I have to disagree somewhat,Creatures 1 & 2,Turrican 1 & 2, Ghouls'n'Ghosts,Myth, Last Ninja 3,Turbocharge etc. amongst several other games showed there was still some life in the C64 market,(At least in the UK/Europe),with most of them released AFTER '89.

I would think it depended on the game type really. Lucasarts & Sierra graphic adventures going to CD-Rom,(D.O.T.T. etc.), was one area where the Amiga with relatively low numbers of HD owners just couldn't compete against. And of course the move towards realtime 3D RPG's,& texture mapping 3D flight sims was another killer.
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Old 10 August 2003, 20:52   #17
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I think Doom was the real killer for many people. The sad irony was that as it turned out, Doom would play well, even on a weakly upgraded Amiga 1200.

I ran a very popular Amiga Doom website back in the good old days, listing the various new versions of Doom as they were released. Ah, the memories are flooding back...
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Old 10 August 2003, 23:24   #18
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Doom pushed me over the edge, i remember playing it at college on a network, i waited for an Amiga conversion (half knowning that the Amiga could not do fake 3d well)... Deathmask, Gloom, Fear, AB etc etc...., not one of them could beat Doom.... that summer i bought my first PC...
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Old 10 August 2003, 23:27   #19
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It's funny how none of the Amiga Doom clones - even on a 060 - even came close to what could be achieved with a port of Doom running on a 030.
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Old 10 August 2003, 23:44   #20
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@lordsnooty - v.true

maybe because, all the people doing Doom clones were in new terrority, on a system that wasn't designed to do fake 3d.... ID had come up with some good source code which was easy to port
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