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Old 08 August 2003, 18:21   #21
Akira
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An eclipse might be nigh because I agree with IanS again.

I have an 030 and MUI is a sluggy shite that adds unnecesary bloat to the workbench, and it's not even that pretty.

Who has a bloody 060? Very few. And PPC cards? even less, and those who have them hate them to bits because they are unreliable and unstable.

I would have an 060 but it's too expensive and it doesn't justify its cost just for watching demos at smooth framerates.
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Old 08 August 2003, 18:40   #22
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After doing the ClassicWB installs I agree with Akira that I like minimum hacks and resource waste. ClassicWB is about as efficient, low resource and hackless you can get without compromising on features. I also didn't want to install MUI until I realised ScalOS required either it or Classact. After going with MUI to allow ScalOS, I haven't looked back.

MUI can work fast and be non-bloat or intrusive if used carefully in combination with ScalOS. The ClassicWB has MUI installed for compatibility with applications, ScalOS requirements and those applications using it work fast enough on my 020 14Mhz. The ScalOS run workbench looks and feels very close to the original without any appreciable slowdown even though many ScalOS windows use MUI features, admittedly sparingly.

ScalOS aside, most of the time MUI isn't even used - its libs are only accessed when required so you only lose compatibility by not having it installed. It won't make any difference to the speed of normal workbench programs or workbench itself.

Last edited by Bloodwych; 08 August 2003 at 19:13.
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Old 08 August 2003, 22:15   #23
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I think the point is being missed here, MUI runs fast as hell on G3 & G4 Pegasos machines.
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Old 08 August 2003, 23:49   #24
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haha you guys are strange (no offence) When was the first 060 card released ??? Thats a lot of years ago ..

And if you ask me it wasnt that expensive (when you think about the pc hardware that was out then, its not worth anything now, while you can get some for your old 060 card...)

Even if you buy a new 060 card, you can have it a couple of years and still get some money for it . (Thats great value if you ask me, not common with computers)

And MUI being shit, I still dont get your point .. If you ask me MUI is very important for the amiga, and was very important when it was released.. I used it several years on a blizzard 1200/030/50 crad (with no problem ...)

haha my 060 amiga is good for internet, chat, old games, gfx and just computing I love the speed of my 4000/060 (with MUI!) And its very stable, no crashes or anything

amiga4life.
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Old 09 August 2003, 02:30   #25
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I love my 030 Amiga as much and I can use it for the net and all, but I'd like MUI not to be so shite. Most apps that use it (for example, the wonderful YAM) crash ferociously, all times because of MUI's fault.

An 060 is not reasonable if I own a 600Mhz G3 iBook. I really don't _need_ it, I'm not that maniac about " I have to use Amiga and nothing else", thoiugh I DO want to get rid of the PC and switch to a G5

MUI is not important to me. Just made coders lazy enough not to care about coding their GUI system because MUI already handled it for them. If they made their own optimized routines, it would be much better. MUI is as bad as open source libraries (ie they boast people's laziness)

Yeah, discuss :P
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Old 09 August 2003, 12:58   #26
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If coders coded their own guis there would be many different guis with crap design since generally coders have no idea about design.

Just look at x-windows before KDE and Gnome took of.
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Old 09 August 2003, 14:38   #27
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strange, mui never crashes here (not often it have either ...) yam,ibrowse,amirc,amftp ++++ very stable stuff


hehe yeah discuss
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Old 09 August 2003, 16:05   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akira
Who has a bloody 060? Very few. And PPC cards? even less, and those who have them hate them to bits because they are unreliable and unstable.
I have a PPC/060 and I think it's great. Totally stable, never had any problems whatsoever. You really should stop inventing what other people are thinking and lighten up.

Quote:
MUI is not important to me. Just made coders lazy enough not to care about coding their GUI system because MUI already handled it for them. If they made their own optimized routines, it would be much better. MUI is as bad as open source libraries (ie they boast people's laziness)
That is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on here! Lazy? There's a difference between being lazy and not wanting to reinvent the wheel every time. Functionality in a program is much more important than writing the GUI, but writing the GUI is usually the most time-consuming part. MUI is very stable (contrary to what you seem to believe) and it's better to use a tried-and-tested stable GUI system than write your own and possibly introduce far more bugs into your program. Same comment goes for open-source libraries. And how would you go about writing software for five different plaforms at the same time? Would you write everything yourself five times, waste time writing a cross-platform layer, or just download SDL?

There's just not enough time in the day to go wasting your time writing everything from scratch every time.

Quote:
Yeah, discuss :P
Discuss this
..|.
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Old 09 August 2003, 20:08   #29
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I have to agree with FromWithin, why reinvent the wheel 5 times if you don't have too? The 060 cards are quite zippy on my A4000T's machines. They also have GFX cards in them so I think that helps as well. I am getting ready to plug-in a 060/PPC card in my A1200 so I will share my results when I have time to do that.

Last edited by Pyromania; 09 August 2003 at 20:40.
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Old 09 August 2003, 21:09   #30
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Typical lazy coder response. If I want to make the best GUI I wouldn't stick to MUI's shittiness. I would invest my time in making a better thing.

and why would I want to port to 5 platforms?

I don't talk from ignorance, I talk from the point that I think it's better to use my own thing than to use someone else's work. Look at that open source shit on linux, the programs are bloody bloated.

I expect another reply where you remark my 'ignorance'. This is just my point of view, and I happen to find MUI very cacky.

and it doesn't look good :P
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Old 09 August 2003, 22:18   #31
Pyromania
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akira
Typical lazy coder response. If I want to make the best GUI I wouldn't stick to MUI's shittiness. I would invest my time in making a better thing.

and why would I want to port to 5 platforms?

I don't talk from ignorance, I talk from the point that I think it's better to use my own thing than to use someone else's work. Look at that open source shit on linux, the programs are bloody bloated.

I expect another reply where you remark my 'ignorance'. This is just my point of view, and I happen to find MUI very cacky.

and it doesn't look good :P
Code us all up a nice internet Amiga applicaiton that does not use MUI and post it in the zone when it is finished. We will let you know what we think about your design.
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Old 11 August 2003, 19:18   #32
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Hey Akira... the sun's dissapeared!!!!

I beleive that most of the criticisms levelled at MUI have been that lower end Amigas have never really had the memory or processor resources to run it at it's optimum. I know that 'lots' of people have 040/060 machines, some have PPC, but compared to the majority of the user base... it's a small percentage who have "fast" Amigas. Personally I don't use MUI. The Amiga's interface isn't that pretty compared to some, but it works well enough, and any programmer can code for the standard interface.

Pyro has a point about MUI running on G3 or G4 machines. Fine... Windoze XP runs fine on my AMD XP 2000+, but if you have a P3 500... it ain't so hot. The next generation of MUI may run well on modern hardware, but that's assuming you have hardware in the first place. How many people actually own a Pegasos PC or an Amiga One? Hundreds? Maybe a couple of thousand worldwide? In the meantime, think of all th 030 units out there, simply because anything more cost an arm and a leg.

Anyway, it's all about choice. Use what you wish as long as YOU are happy with it.

End of sermon!

PS

Today I took delvery of an A1200 complete with 040/33 with one of those enhanced IDE interfaces... can't wait to get her home and put her through her paces.
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Old 12 August 2003, 08:05   #33
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All this stuff about having to code from the ground up...isn't this the whole basis of system libraries? So that the routines don't have to be created each time a new app is created? This works great for apps, etc. with medium level languages. A bit trickier with assembly.

Take a look at the repulsive gfx app Fractal Pro (yes, that old turkey again). Aside from the fact that I am chunder-struck over the crashing bore that fractals and mandelbrot sets are, even more piss-poor is Fractal Pro's horrid interface. I always wondered why it didn't have the standarized Amiga GUI that all my other fav apps used. The standard menu system has always worked for me. Even the various Soundtracker programs suffered immensely because of their clunky interface (which MED, OctaMED, etc. rectified). A better example that everyone should be familiar with is AmigaBASIC. Try loading a file and look at the primitive file requester. Rather than coding that portion, using a pre-made requester library would have made loading files in AB a pleasure (even if the app itself should have been aborted in a back alley...)

I have never cared for MUI either and only have it installed on my Amiga because so many programs required it. It runs like a slug on my 030, but from what I have read it works fine with higher processors. This happens on a lot of programs on the PC and is simply a factor of computing, unfortunately. I will reserve judgement about MUI, despite my previous views, at least until I can check it out on a faster box.
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Old 12 August 2003, 15:45   #34
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huh ?

MUI is very good, you can change buttons, backgounds, fonts , wahtever in a lot of software .... this aint good ???

I dont see the problem, as you can make it look as fancy or boring you want ...

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Old 12 August 2003, 17:21   #35
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You mean computing isn't SUPPOSED to be boring?????

Oh my god, after all these years, and now you tell me....

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Old 14 August 2003, 02:42   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pyromania
More screenshots.

http://www.morphos.net/images.php?gallery=13
Interface and graphicswise, very Mac OS X like in appearance
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Old 14 August 2003, 03:24   #37
killergorilla
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frederic
Interface and graphicswise, very Mac OS X like in appearance
However did you figure that one out?
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Old 14 August 2003, 19:25   #38
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Well, maybe from a distance (2 miles?), if you squint a little and there's a bit of mist...

But seriously, if it's skinnable, you can probably make it look like Workbench 1.3 if you want.
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Old 15 August 2003, 02:31   #39
Akira
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Lazy coders
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Old 15 August 2003, 17:31   #40
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I admit to being lazy... but don't call me a coder. That's insulting and I could become paranoid!
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