Robocop 3

bippym · 19 June 2003, 20:26

Hiya guys..

Just a quick query.. How do you play Robocop 3 (when it is released).. It has Dongle protection, and no dongle on a non-cracked game = no play!!

IFW · 19 June 2003, 20:38

Dongles can be reverse engineered... thus emulated

Twistin'Ghost · 20 June 2003, 00:02

Will there also be a release of Robocop 3 Platinum Edition? One of several differences is that the dongle protection was removed and replaced with manual lookup.

IFW · 20 June 2003, 00:09

Yes, if it is/gets dumped (don't know its status).

bippym · 20 June 2003, 03:51

So how would it work?

Maybe a separate file that is "plugged" into WinUAE to FOOL it into thinking the dongle is there?!?!

And what if a user writes it back to disk at a later date?

I can dump Robocop soon (With the dongle) if its any help!!

fiath · 20 June 2003, 10:53

If the dongle contains any data, we will read it off somehow. If this is the case, the game would have to do this, so it should be simple enough to do the same. For IFW at least

If we have to pull it apart to get the data, so be it (if we can find one). This data will then be distributed with the release as an IPF (don't forget, not just disk images!

).

If the dongle contains no data, i.e. is just some simple logic, then it is purely an emulation issue. I think it would be cool to somehow describe these in an abstract way, but for the tiny amount of games with dongles (I have only heard of one other personally, but I forget what it was called), it is probably not worth the effort if it is easier just emulating/simulating the thing specifically.

An example of dongle functionality might be some challenge/response mechanism. This is where the game says something like "here are two numbers, do something with them" and the dongle does a "calculation" (with simple logic circuits most likely to keep costs down) and returns the result that the game expects.

This technique is used often in the commercial world on smart cards, etc. But they generally use specific types of public key encryption with full blown encryption hardware, which is a bit overkill for a £30 game.

Same with some of the techniques to stop physical hacking - like wire meshes protecting the IC, which, when broken (when opened), causes erasure of all the data on the chip. Commonly used in Sky box cards and mobile phone SIMM cards. Again, way overkill for a £30 game.

Anyway, obviously for either of these we would have to work with Toni about getting this supported in WinUAE.

If somebody later writes the IPF's back to disk (when that is available) then they will obviously have to have the dongle in order for it to work. We were thinking of reverse engineering the thing to an extent that a DIY project could be put on the website to build one, but this will probably only happen if we are sure we won't get any legal hassle.

I have written a FAQ question/answer on this, along with about 35Kb of text worth of new FAQ content. I really should get that baby up at some point... BTW IFW: I think we will need to split it... (CAPS Specifics, General Questions, Scanning, Dumping, ...)

Dumping the game would be great. Who knows, maybe we will not even need the dongle to find out how it works... When the game is dumped, perhaps IFW will be able to tell you more.

AEV · 21 June 2003, 16:51

I remember what I think was a golf game that needed a dongle, I'm pretty sure it was Leaderboard but it may have been Mean 18.

IFW · 21 June 2003, 16:55

Games scheduled that require a dongle are:

Rugby Coach
Bat II (DE)
Leader Board

fiath · 22 June 2003, 14:41

I have the Leader Board dongle, found it today.

whiteb · 01 March 2004, 23:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Enverex
Done and Uploaded:

A-Train (Budget)
Carrier Command
Frontier - Elite II
Jungle Strike
Nightbreed - The Interactive Movie (Screen Gems Amiga Pack version)
Days of Thunder
Beneath a Steel Sky
Out Run Europa
Sixth Sense Investigations
Wizball

Still expecting more in the near future, although I may be Amigaless for a short while.

I just won a "Robocop 3" with dongle.

Enverex · 02 March 2004, 00:03

Quote:

Originally posted by whiteb
I just won a "Robocop 3" with dongle.

What do these Dongles actually look like and where do they connect to?

fiath · 02 March 2004, 09:35

Robocop 3 dongle connects to the mouse port. It is a small black device with a "lump" on the back, which could possibly be an IC.

Leaderboard Golf dongle is a very small "plug" for the joystick port. Not much bigger than the port entry itself. Makes me think that it just connects two or more of the port lines. Technically simple, but probably quite effective.

StarEye · 08 March 2004, 20:56

I think Microprose Golf was released with a Dongle to prevent copy-protection too. My friend had one, and I tried to buy it from him a long time ago, unfortunately he wouldn't sell it. I'm sure he got rid of it eventually, like any other non-fanatic amiga collector would. The connection was lost a long time ago, so no chance getting it now.

whiteb · 10 March 2004, 05:06

Received my Robocop 3 today, with Dongle.

Need the manual scanned ?????

fiath · 10 March 2004, 11:16

Yes!

In fact, we need manual, box and disks scanned if you can... Also a (digital) photo of the dongle on a white background would be nice!

Thanks!

whiteb · 11 March 2004, 01:35

Quote:

Originally posted by fiath
Yes!

In fact, we need manual, box and disks scanned if you can... Also a (digital) photo of the dongle on a white background would be nice!

Thanks!

You sure about the dongle ?.. I had to break the casing of the dongle to get inside and look whats inside.

1 chip... with its identifying markings erased

Still want a photo of it ?????

Enverex · 11 March 2004, 01:48

I think he may have just meant a photo of the dongle, as-is, not torn apart

StarEye · 11 March 2004, 02:10

I have an original with the dongle too, and I didn't break it

I have a digital camera, so if you want a picture...

fiath · 11 March 2004, 09:20

Eeek! No whiteb! I didn't mean break it!! :eek

I meant just a digital photo to show what it looked like for preservation purposes!

Oh dear...

Well, I guess we know it is IC based now rather than just a simple line swap. If the markings are scratched off kinda tells me it might be an off the shelf part... Perhaps some sort of MCU with internal ROM - interesting!

But yes, anyway if anybody wants to take a photo of it - just let me know - white background please!

whiteb · 11 March 2004, 11:03

Well the dongle still works for me

Anyone know a bit about the internals of the game, decypher what the game sends out through Joy1 to the dongle and on what pins, and what it expects in return ?

Maybe if the port sends out on pins 1,2,3 and 4 and it expects a return on pin 5 then the chip MUST be a "Quad input AND gate".

Anyone want to decode what the game does when checking for the dongle ?

StarEye · 11 March 2004, 14:52

Actually, mine didn't have a casing at all for some reason, and no signs of it being forced off either.

BTW, I have a holographic sticker too (the sticker on the box says: "FREE ROBOCOP 3 GIANT HOLOGRAM STICKER INSIDE", but I don't think the GIANT part fits so well

.
Impossible to scan, and I don't know if taking a picture of it will work very well either but I could try.

I only have 2.0 megapixels on my digital camera, so it's not the best of the best, but it gets the job done mostly.

fiath · 11 March 2004, 17:00

2 megapixel is fine. Just use the highest quality.

Photos are never going to be anything like as good as scans, so quality is not really an issue (within reason).

My 2 megapixel camera does 1600x1200, which I think it more than fine for what we are using them for (a best effort at capturing the essence of a 3D physical object).

I think we would have a little more issue with 640x480 pictures

whiteb · 13 March 2004, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by StarEye
Actually, mine didn't have a casing at all for some reason, and no signs of it being forced off either.

BTW, I have a holographic sticker too (the sticker on the box says: "FREE ROBOCOP 3 GIANT HOLOGRAM STICKER INSIDE", but I don't think the GIANT part fits so well .
Impossible to scan, and I don't know if taking a picture of it will work very well either but I could try.

Lucky bugger, I didnt get the hologram. Oh well. thgats what you get for AU$5 on ebay

whiteb · 25 March 2004, 09:06

Quote:

Originally posted by whiteb

FIATH !!!!!!!!!

Check this ebay out (Australia)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....&category=3545

No case on the dongle, just the circuit etc.

1) I had the only dongle with a case on it.
2) *ALOT* of people tried opening it to see how it worked.

But alot of Robocop 3 auctions do not have the Hollogram

fiath · 25 March 2004, 09:21

Okay, not a great picture to tell, but they look like simple logic IC's to me... Probably not very hard to reverse engineer with the right equipment. Now we just need to get hold of one...

whiteb · 26 March 2004, 00:02

Quote:

Originally posted by fiath
Okay, not a great picture to tell, but they look like simple logic IC's to me... Probably not very hard to reverse engineer with the right equipment. Now we just need to get hold of one...

www.iinet.net.au/~aimee/IMG_0621.jpg
www.iinet.net.au/~aimee/IMG_0623.jpg
www.iinet.net.au/~aimee/IMG_0624.jpg

After looking at the dongle..... it wont work anyway... a few of the DB9 pads have cracked solder joints. (nothing a soldering iron wont fix).

But it gives you an idea.

621 is sort of what it looked like with its plastic cover on.
623 is top of the dongle showing IC with identify markings abrased off.
624 is Circuit side.

fiath · 26 March 2004, 13:26

Nice! Thanks for that.

What is that is says on the circuit board? CRX-4-ME ? LOL!

mr_0rga5m · 26 March 2004, 14:34

I seem to remember seeing (and disassembling) a dongle like this way back then ..

It (the game) expected a result from the dongle akin to the joystick being Up,Left,Down and Fire pressed all at once if i remember rightly.

I'm gonna have to go hit the attic again now to go find it out.

whiteb · 27 March 2004, 00:49

Quote:

Originally posted by fiath
Nice! Thanks for that.

What is that is says on the circuit board? CRX-4-ME ? LOL!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (ROFL)

WORX-4-ME B1

fiath · 27 March 2004, 01:11

@mr_0rga5m Interesting, let us know how you get on...

@whiteb Oww shame. Yhat W was hard to see though

whiteb · 27 March 2004, 01:38

@fiath

Hows the poster manual coming along for projectyle ?

frsoldier · 13 April 2004, 15:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
Will there also be a release of Robocop 3 Platinum Edition? One of several differences is that the dongle protection was removed and replaced with manual lookup.

hey Twistin ,
this post remember me my post in old.rare games

19 June 2003, 20:26	#1
bippym Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 37 Posts: 8,134	Robocop 3 Hiya guys.. Just a quick query.. How do you play Robocop 3 (when it is released).. It has Dongle protection, and no dongle on a non-cracked game = no play!!

20 June 2003, 10:53	#6
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	If the dongle contains any data, we will read it off somehow. If this is the case, the game would have to do this, so it should be simple enough to do the same. For IFW at least If we have to pull it apart to get the data, so be it (if we can find one). This data will then be distributed with the release as an IPF (don't forget, not just disk images! ). If the dongle contains no data, i.e. is just some simple logic, then it is purely an emulation issue. I think it would be cool to somehow describe these in an abstract way, but for the tiny amount of games with dongles (I have only heard of one other personally, but I forget what it was called), it is probably not worth the effort if it is easier just emulating/simulating the thing specifically. An example of dongle functionality might be some challenge/response mechanism. This is where the game says something like "here are two numbers, do something with them" and the dongle does a "calculation" (with simple logic circuits most likely to keep costs down) and returns the result that the game expects. This technique is used often in the commercial world on smart cards, etc. But they generally use specific types of public key encryption with full blown encryption hardware, which is a bit overkill for a £30 game. Same with some of the techniques to stop physical hacking - like wire meshes protecting the IC, which, when broken (when opened), causes erasure of all the data on the chip. Commonly used in Sky box cards and mobile phone SIMM cards. Again, way overkill for a £30 game. Anyway, obviously for either of these we would have to work with Toni about getting this supported in WinUAE. If somebody later writes the IPF's back to disk (when that is available) then they will obviously have to have the dongle in order for it to work. We were thinking of reverse engineering the thing to an extent that a DIY project could be put on the website to build one, but this will probably only happen if we are sure we won't get any legal hassle. I have written a FAQ question/answer on this, along with about 35Kb of text worth of new FAQ content. I really should get that baby up at some point... BTW IFW: I think we will need to split it... (CAPS Specifics, General Questions, Scanning, Dumping, ...) Dumping the game would be great. Who knows, maybe we will not even need the dongle to find out how it works... When the game is dumped, perhaps IFW will be able to tell you more. __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org

21 June 2003, 16:51	#7
AEV Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 42	I remember what I think was a golf game that needed a dongle, I'm pretty sure it was Leaderboard but it may have been Mean 18. __________________ AEV

22 June 2003, 14:41	#9
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	I have the Leader Board dongle, found it today. __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org

02 March 2004, 09:35	#12
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	Robocop 3 dongle connects to the mouse port. It is a small black device with a "lump" on the back, which could possibly be an IC. Leaderboard Golf dongle is a very small "plug" for the joystick port. Not much bigger than the port entry itself. Makes me think that it just connects two or more of the port lines. Technically simple, but probably quite effective. __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org Last edited by fiath; 02 March 2004 at 09:40.

19 June 2003, 20:38	#2
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 41 Posts: 1,680	Dongles can be reverse engineered... thus emulated

20 June 2003, 00:02	#3
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 22 Posts: 4,662	Will there also be a release of Robocop 3 Platinum Edition? One of several differences is that the dongle protection was removed and replaced with manual lookup.

20 June 2003, 00:09	#4
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 41 Posts: 1,680	Yes, if it is/gets dumped (don't know its status).

20 June 2003, 03:51	#5
bippym Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 37 Posts: 8,134	So how would it work? Maybe a separate file that is "plugged" into WinUAE to FOOL it into thinking the dongle is there?!?! And what if a user writes it back to disk at a later date? I can dump Robocop soon (With the dongle) if its any help!!

21 June 2003, 16:55	#8
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 41 Posts: 1,680	Games scheduled that require a dongle are: Rugby Coach Bat II (DE) Leader Board

08 March 2004, 20:56	#13
StarEye Zone Friend Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Norway Age: 35 Posts: 978	I think Microprose Golf was released with a Dongle to prevent copy-protection too. My friend had one, and I tried to buy it from him a long time ago, unfortunately he wouldn't sell it. I'm sure he got rid of it eventually, like any other non-fanatic amiga collector would. The connection was lost a long time ago, so no chance getting it now.

10 March 2004, 05:06	#14
whiteb Fanatically Amiga. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 1,354	Received my Robocop 3 today, with Dongle. Need the manual scanned ?????

10 March 2004, 11:16	#15
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	Yes! In fact, we need manual, box and disks scanned if you can... Also a (digital) photo of the dongle on a white background would be nice! Thanks! __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org

11 March 2004, 01:48	#17
Enverex Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Age: 27 Posts: 1,186	I think he may have just meant a photo of the dongle, as-is, not torn apart

11 March 2004, 02:10	#18
StarEye Zone Friend Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Norway Age: 35 Posts: 978	I have an original with the dongle too, and I didn't break it I have a digital camera, so if you want a picture...

11 March 2004, 09:20	#19
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	Eeek! No whiteb! I didn't mean break it!! :eek I meant just a digital photo to show what it looked like for preservation purposes! Oh dear... Well, I guess we know it is IC based now rather than just a simple line swap. If the markings are scratched off kinda tells me it might be an off the shelf part... Perhaps some sort of MCU with internal ROM - interesting! But yes, anyway if anybody wants to take a photo of it - just let me know - white background please! __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org Last edited by fiath; 11 March 2004 at 09:30.

11 March 2004, 11:03	#20
whiteb Fanatically Amiga. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 1,354	Well the dongle still works for me Anyone know a bit about the internals of the game, decypher what the game sends out through Joy1 to the dongle and on what pins, and what it expects in return ? Maybe if the port sends out on pins 1,2,3 and 4 and it expects a return on pin 5 then the chip MUST be a "Quad input AND gate". Anyone want to decode what the game does when checking for the dongle ?

11 March 2004, 14:52	#21
StarEye Zone Friend Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Norway Age: 35 Posts: 978	Actually, mine didn't have a casing at all for some reason, and no signs of it being forced off either. BTW, I have a holographic sticker too (the sticker on the box says: "FREE ROBOCOP 3 GIANT HOLOGRAM STICKER INSIDE", but I don't think the GIANT part fits so well . Impossible to scan, and I don't know if taking a picture of it will work very well either but I could try. I only have 2.0 megapixels on my digital camera, so it's not the best of the best, but it gets the job done mostly.

11 March 2004, 17:00	#22
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	2 megapixel is fine. Just use the highest quality. Photos are never going to be anything like as good as scans, so quality is not really an issue (within reason). My 2 megapixel camera does 1600x1200, which I think it more than fine for what we are using them for (a best effort at capturing the essence of a 3D physical object). I think we would have a little more issue with 640x480 pictures __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org

25 March 2004, 09:21	#25
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	Okay, not a great picture to tell, but they look like simple logic IC's to me... Probably not very hard to reverse engineer with the right equipment. Now we just need to get hold of one... __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org

26 March 2004, 13:26	#27
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	Nice! Thanks for that. What is that is says on the circuit board? CRX-4-ME ? LOL! __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org

26 March 2004, 14:34	#28
mr_0rga5m Tik Gora :D Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Round yo momma's Posts: 1,273	I seem to remember seeing (and disassembling) a dongle like this way back then .. It (the game) expected a result from the dongle akin to the joystick being Up,Left,Down and Fire pressed all at once if i remember rightly. I'm gonna have to go hit the attic again now to go find it out. __________________ BF++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+. +++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. "Bill Gates is Microsoft. His wife has no comment." [16:38:45] <THB> why be hatin our cgi:irc brothers? [16:44:38] * THBollock has joined #abime.net [16:44:54] <THBollock> :) [16:45:39] * THBollock has quit IRC ("lol") [16:50:25] <THB> oh thats why Catflap <-- Imposter!! <cATFLAP> <-- The real deal.

27 March 2004, 01:11	#30
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 35 Posts: 1,925	@mr_0rga5m Interesting, let us know how you get on... @whiteb Oww shame. Yhat W was hard to see though __________________ S.P.S. - The Software Preservation Society http://www.softpres.org

27 March 2004, 01:38	#31
whiteb Fanatically Amiga. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 1,354	@fiath Hows the poster manual coming along for projectyle ?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Robocop 3 by Crystal?	frsoldier	request.Old Rare Games	12	13 April 2004 15:05
Robocop 3	Parsec	support.Games	8	06 July 2003 03:58
Robocop Redux, 3D	bippym	request.Old Rare Games	12	15 January 2003 18:23
robocop 3	Unregistered	support.WinUAE	10	04 September 2002 16:23
Robocop shooting range.	Muzkat	support.Games	5	20 February 2002 02:45