which was, from a technical POV, the best amiga game? - Page 5

oneshotdead · 29 August 2007, 09:20

I actually thought in many cases the AGA versions of some games looked worse than the originals, but that could just be that I was used to the originals...

s2325 · 29 August 2007, 10:01

Yes, Speedball 2 CD32 & Chaos Engine AGA. MS-DOS version look like ECS version thankfully: http://www.abandonia.com/games/si/59...utalDeluxe.htm

Tony Landais · 29 August 2007, 11:19

No second prize was probably one of the fastest 3D engine on Amiga. The game was nearly full screen, colorful mixing polygones and lines. Collision was pretty good and slow down were rare on a A500.

Sensi · 29 August 2007, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco pedrana

it's a really difficult question ihmo. I can think of Frontier... to this day i have not the faintest idea how that shitload of data (names of stars and texts for instance the database in addition to the actual game and graphics) could be compressed in a single disk and in about 500 Kb (try compress it also with Powerpacker, it still works...)

Yes, I agree. Strange. When you use cheat (the so called wormholes, jumping to systems many many light years far from where you are) you´ll find that ALL systems REALLY exist. They are there. Stars, planets. Unbelieveable.

EDIT: Huh, now I am not sure if I tried the cheat on Amiga version or just PC. But it should work too. Doesn´t matter, Frontier is great.

spiff · 29 August 2007, 12:10

Planes, colours on screen and so on...
The unique colour count is exact, the planes are guessed (um codetapper?)

**Elf original, 93 unique colours - ****Elf, playfield, 72 unique colours (32+ copper some 16?)

**Gods, 54 unique colours - ****************Gods, cropped no copper, 14! (16) unique colours (8 back 8 front probably)

**Jim power 107 unique colours! (and still looks crap compared to gods) - **Jim power cropped 89 unique colours

**Ruff n tumble 57 unique colours (32+32?) - **Ruff n tumble 32 unique colours playfield

***Risky woods 46 unique colours (16+16, +16?) - ****Risky woods 29 (32?) unique colours playfield

tarr · 29 August 2007, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Ruff'n'Tumble

Jerky scrolling. Nuff said.

tarr · 29 August 2007, 12:41

@spiff: which program did you use to count colours? (nice move, btw!)

Marcuz · 29 August 2007, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleFan

Yes, I agree. Strange. When you use cheat (the so called wormholes, jumping to systems many many light years far from where you are) you´ll find that ALL systems REALLY exist. They are there. Stars, planets. Unbelieveable.

EDIT: Huh, now I am not sure if I tried the cheat on Amiga version or just PC. But it should work too. Doesn´t matter, Frontier is great.

i played it on amiga on only, and yes i can confirm that creative use of wormholes (not sure if it's a cheat) takes you to places either that exist or that have been crafted but are not random!
i still have the cohordinates for Nirvana system, some 120 l.y. off the center of the grid and that have spaceports and planet ports earth-like in size...

Ironclaw · 29 August 2007, 13:32

I've been wanting to play Elite for sooo long... but it looks diffuclt so I have never played it. I have played Eve Online alot though

.

spiff · 29 August 2007, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarr

@spiff: which program did you use to count colours? (nice move, btw!)

infraview, most image programs have a similar function. The colour count for games with copper list bacground is ofcourse a bit varied depending on how much of the list is seen.

I think the a500 game with most on screen colours (not HAM mode) is lionheart 128 unique colours. A lot of the is however from blending the copper with other layers creating the fading/fog effect.
Oh, and all cred for images to HOL

spiff · 29 August 2007, 14:08

Silents - global trash 1240 unique colours

Maybe someone who know how could explain the details?
Apparently a one pixel plasma. How ever since it's not scrolling the screen it's disqualified for game purposes :P

Is it really 1240 colours on screen or just the result of some changing the colours while refreshing the screen trick?

P-J · 29 August 2007, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

Imagine if Hunter was multiplayer..... oh yeah..... now that would be a great idea.

I've been thinking about working on this for some time, but for PC rather than Amiga. Keeping the same look and feel but just adding multiplayer.

DrF · 29 August 2007, 15:47

"Whats this... this is twice as fast, twice as powerfull as anything I ever thought possible... but what that meant I could never have imagined...incredibly graphics... and colours so many colours! The world would never be the same again."

I like HAM

Retro-Nerd · 29 August 2007, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarr

Jerky scrolling. Nuff said.

I've said better looking than Jim Power. Yes, i hate these 25 fps games too. It's not really fun to play Ruff'n'Tumble, Wolfchild...

laser · 29 August 2007, 16:07

If we talk about technical the best amiga game was onescapee (1997)...

The game features a cool intro great graphics and colours and incredible sound

and of course only amiga chips are used for all

Zetr0 · 29 August 2007, 16:41

hmmmm, i am noticing a lot of (scroller type )- platform games being mentioned, essentially due to the amiga plannar nature this is pretty much what they graphics chips were designed for. colours are fooled using hardly difficult copper tricks. infact i find no REAL technical achievement in platform games.

for me the real technical comes from using the system for things it wasn`t designed for.... like textured poly, bitmap scaling and vectoring. fast internal memory routines (like decompression ) that use other chips (like the graphics blitter) to work .... this is technical prowess not dual playfields... thats instruction day 2 on the RKRM books after all the Amiga was built for planar scrolling...

for me technical achievement should be a measure of HOW a machine was used in what time... at the moment it seems we are discussing what game is crap / good and how many colours it has (considering a copper trick will give you a base of 256 colours in pal) and thats before you add your OCS / ECS / AGA pallet on top.

what of the partical and physics engine in Virus ? what of the compression technology in EOB and Frontier, what about the bitmap handling of UFO (ECS and AGA) i am not suprised the no music when battling... theres no memmory for it. what about gloom3 for ECS chipsets.... there aint NO WAY that was designed for it.

But with all this mention of 3d graphics on a planar platform please dont get me wrong, there were some clever (COMPOSITE) tricks with dual playfileds / bobs/ gels and sprites (like SOTB) but the code is quite simple what it comes down to is how its realised by graphics artists... and in all truth as much i thought the game lame, Lion Heart has one hell of a graphics designer!!! but arguably its no more technical than say bubba 'n stix or even gods.

Bloodwych · 29 August 2007, 18:25

There are some great examples of technical masterpieces here.

One already mentioned but I'll put forward another vote and argument for is "The Settlers".

Just think back to all the lazy PC ports that we had to put up with, running like crap on the Amiga. Not much optimization, just the graphics converted.

The Settlers however was written purely with the Amiga in mind and even beats the PC version with its two player split screen action and better music/sounds. It had a great intro and was hard drive installable.

Better still it scales up with your system (be it an A500 or A4000), adding extra content, sounds and larger maps if you had more ram. That startup configuration screen used to make you feel warm inside as it verified your full system was being put to good use.

Oh and it's not over. The game engine itself was unique and a technical achievement in its time. Remember how other strategy games used to gradually slow to a crawl as more action built up on screen? Populous, Civilization, Dune II - they all did it.

Not The Settlers. It started as it meant to go on. It continued at the same pace throughout a game no matter how busy the world got. Then of course if you had a faster CPU, the whole gaming world would speed up accordingly, again showing no slow down as characters and buildings appeared on-screen.

It wasn't all good news though. The Amiga's lack of CPU power compared to the PC meant the time speed up options weren't available so you had to always play at one pace. That was always the Amiga's achilles heal - lack of CPU oomph. But who cared - we had that TWO PLAYER SPLIT SCREEN!! I remember my friend had an expensive 486 at the time. He commented on how much better the Amiga version was!

Then there was the playability. All that playability on three 880K floppies. Brilliant. Admittedly, the tune would drive you insane but what a catchy little number it was. The manual and resource guide were great - best money I've ever spent on an Amiga game! (apart from Bloodwych

)

Zetr0 · 29 August 2007, 19:37

@Bloodwych

I have to admit i did find settlers graphic engine a VERY interesting one, than say the blat-everything-to-buffer then blat that to screen method of say Dune2 / Populas / CIV etc..

its a shame I never got into-the game though, but it did have (as you have mentioned) some impressive abilities. I look forward to re-discover it.

Bloodwych · 29 August 2007, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

@Bloodwych
its a shame I never got into-the game though, but it did have (as you have mentioned) some impressive abilities. I look forward to re-discover it.

Many people say that because they had the pirate version and couldn't be bothered to work out all the resource management.

The original was well worth it.

danwood · 29 August 2007, 22:03

i think the ishar games looked and sounded brilliant.

29 August 2007, 10:01	#82
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	Yes, Speedball 2 CD32 & Chaos Engine AGA. MS-DOS version look like ECS version thankfully: http://www.abandonia.com/games/si/59...utalDeluxe.htm Last edited by s2325; 29 August 2007 at 10:14.

29 August 2007, 12:10	#85
spiff Oh noes! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Neverland Posts: 766	Planes, colours on screen and so on... The unique colour count is exact, the planes are guessed (um codetapper?) Elf original, 93 unique colours - Elf, playfield, 72 unique colours (32+ copper some 16?) Gods, 54 unique colours - **************Gods, cropped no copper, 14! (16) unique colours (8 back 8 front probably) Jim power 107 unique colours! (and still looks crap compared to gods) - Jim power cropped 89 unique colours Ruff n tumble 57 unique colours (32+32?) - Ruff n tumble 32 unique colours playfield Risky woods 46 unique colours (16+16, +16?) - **Risky woods 29 (32?) unique colours playfield Last edited by spiff; 29 August 2007 at 12:20. Reason: F*** bloody URLs.. brb*

29 August 2007, 14:08	#91
spiff Oh noes! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Neverland Posts: 766	Silents - global trash 1240 unique colours Maybe someone who know how could explain the details? Apparently a one pixel plasma. How ever since it's not scrolling the screen it's disqualified for game purposes :P Is it really 1240 colours on screen or just the result of some changing the colours while refreshing the screen trick? Last edited by spiff; 29 August 2007 at 14:13.

29 August 2007, 18:25	#97
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	There are some great examples of technical masterpieces here. One already mentioned but I'll put forward another vote and argument for is "The Settlers". Just think back to all the lazy PC ports that we had to put up with, running like crap on the Amiga. Not much optimization, just the graphics converted. The Settlers however was written purely with the Amiga in mind and even beats the PC version with its two player split screen action and better music/sounds. It had a great intro and was hard drive installable. Better still it scales up with your system (be it an A500 or A4000), adding extra content, sounds and larger maps if you had more ram. That startup configuration screen used to make you feel warm inside as it verified your full system was being put to good use. Oh and it's not over. The game engine itself was unique and a technical achievement in its time. Remember how other strategy games used to gradually slow to a crawl as more action built up on screen? Populous, Civilization, Dune II - they all did it. Not The Settlers. It started as it meant to go on. It continued at the same pace throughout a game no matter how busy the world got. Then of course if you had a faster CPU, the whole gaming world would speed up accordingly, again showing no slow down as characters and buildings appeared on-screen. It wasn't all good news though. The Amiga's lack of CPU power compared to the PC meant the time speed up options weren't available so you had to always play at one pace. That was always the Amiga's achilles heal - lack of CPU oomph. But who cared - we had that TWO PLAYER SPLIT SCREEN!! I remember my friend had an expensive 486 at the time. He commented on how much better the Amiga version was! Then there was the playability. All that playability on three 880K floppies. Brilliant. Admittedly, the tune would drive you insane but what a catchy little number it was. The manual and resource guide were great - best money I've ever spent on an Amiga game! (apart from Bloodwych ) Last edited by Bloodwych; 29 August 2007 at 18:31.

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29 August 2007, 09:20	#81
oneshotdead Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: asteroid belt Posts: 273	I actually thought in many cases the AGA versions of some games looked worse than the originals, but that could just be that I was used to the originals...

29 August 2007, 11:19	#83
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	No second prize was probably one of the fastest 3D engine on Amiga. The game was nearly full screen, colorful mixing polygones and lines. Collision was pretty good and slow down were rare on a A500.

29 August 2007, 12:41	#87
tarr Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 181	@spiff: which program did you use to count colours? (nice move, btw!)

29 August 2007, 13:32	#89
Ironclaw Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: ... Age: 45 Posts: 3,313	I've been wanting to play Elite for sooo long... but it looks diffuclt so I have never played it. I have played Eve Online alot though .

29 August 2007, 15:47	#93
DrF Blessed A1200 Of TeH Rat Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bham, UK Age: 42 Posts: 496	"Whats this... this is twice as fast, twice as powerfull as anything I ever thought possible... but what that meant I could never have imagined...incredibly graphics... and colours so many colours! The world would never be the same again." I like HAM

29 August 2007, 16:07	#95
laser Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Argentina Age: 51 Posts: 648	If we talk about technical the best amiga game was onescapee (1997)... The game features a cool intro great graphics and colours and incredible sound and of course only amiga chips are used for all

29 August 2007, 16:41	#96
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	hmmmm, i am noticing a lot of (scroller type )- platform games being mentioned, essentially due to the amiga plannar nature this is pretty much what they graphics chips were designed for. colours are fooled using hardly difficult copper tricks. infact i find no REAL technical achievement in platform games. for me the real technical comes from using the system for things it wasn`t designed for.... like textured poly, bitmap scaling and vectoring. fast internal memory routines (like decompression ) that use other chips (like the graphics blitter) to work .... this is technical prowess not dual playfields... thats instruction day 2 on the RKRM books after all the Amiga was built for planar scrolling... for me technical achievement should be a measure of HOW a machine was used in what time... at the moment it seems we are discussing what game is crap / good and how many colours it has (considering a copper trick will give you a base of 256 colours in pal) and thats before you add your OCS / ECS / AGA pallet on top. what of the partical and physics engine in Virus ? what of the compression technology in EOB and Frontier, what about the bitmap handling of UFO (ECS and AGA) i am not suprised the no music when battling... theres no memmory for it. what about gloom3 for ECS chipsets.... there aint NO WAY that was designed for it. But with all this mention of 3d graphics on a planar platform please dont get me wrong, there were some clever (COMPOSITE) tricks with dual playfileds / bobs/ gels and sprites (like SOTB) but the code is quite simple what it comes down to is how its realised by graphics artists... and in all truth as much i thought the game lame, Lion Heart has one hell of a graphics designer!!! but arguably its no more technical than say bubba 'n stix or even gods.

29 August 2007, 19:37	#98
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@Bloodwych I have to admit i did find settlers graphic engine a VERY interesting one, than say the blat-everything-to-buffer then blat that to screen method of say Dune2 / Populas / CIV etc.. its a shame I never got into-the game though, but it did have (as you have mentioned) some impressive abilities. I look forward to re-discover it.

29 August 2007, 22:03	#100
danwood Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: oldham/england Posts: 75	i think the ishar games looked and sounded brilliant.

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