Monkey Business: First Commercial Amiga Game - It Exists! BELIEVE IT or NOT!!!

[fatbob_gb]

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Yes, he can remember something wrong. Perhaps other EA title was available in October 1985 to buy or exist more versions Golden Oldies. Something like v 1.x from 1985 year. Anyway inside Amiga World magazine exist info than Golden Oldies will be relesead in second quarter 1986 year from EA.

The April 86 edition of Computer Gaming World magazine has "Software Golden Oldies" as being written by Software Country but being distributed by EA.

[Don_Adan]

I find one more info:
"I distinctly remember seeing this ad in (I think) the very first issue of Amiga World magazine. My parents had just purchased an Amiga 1000 and we needed some games for it. Archon and Seven Cities of Gold were pretty much all that was available at the time… but, boy, were they enough! Such great games. Then mom & dad bought me Marble Madness sometime later and I got absolutely hooked on that, too."

[DrBong]

Apologies for another long, boring post peeps! My next post should more than make up for it, though!!

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

About YT video with 7 Amiga games from 1985 year, only originals, not cracks on this video.

How do you know whether they were originals or cracks? The person who made the video more than likely used cracks and just edited out the game cracktros (if present). Original disk images could have been taken from anywhere on the net. Funny, how there were original disk images for every game except A Mind Forever Voyaging (text adventure). Why? It's because the Amiga version is quite rare and there are probably no disk scans on the net!

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Why you think that Hex is from 1986 year not from 1985 year?

Because all files/directories on the original disk have date stamps with 1986.

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Similar Monkey Business can be from 1986 year too. Was reviewed in half of 1986 year.

Please start carefully reading what has been clearly stated in this thread and in the Monkey Business HOL entry before; also please stop selectively ignoring what has been posted by people here to suit your own opinions. I'm asking politely....so I will just assume that you are trolling if you keep doing it. OK?

Just so there is absolutely no doubt due to any language barrier, it bears repeating that Peter Olafson has said more than once or twice since the 1990s that Monkey Business was released in late 1985 and was the first game he received at Amiga World for review. Also, it is no surprise that on the bad "crack" that dlfrsilver upped to the Zone that the most recent game file on the Monkey Business ADF - i.e. the main exec - is date stamped Dec 11, 1985.

Without having an original copy of the disk, we can't be sure if the "cracker" left the main exec and hence the date stamp unmodified (or whether he had an accurate time clock installed on his Amiga, for that matter). The startup-sequence looks to be unmodified, however, and has a date stamp of Nov 25, 1985. Regardless, I'd sooner trust the date stamps of files on an unmodified original disk of Monkey Business than a bad "crack".

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Monkey Business was sold by mail order, but show me Monkey Business Amiga advertising from 1985 year.

Well, the Mac version was advertised by The Other Valley Software in late 1985 (only once, maybe twice IIRC).....but the publisher didn't do any magazine advertising for the Amiga/ST versions AFAIK. Not surprising because they were a small, new developer/publisher (not just to the Amiga, but the software industry itself back in '85) and probably couldn't afford to do much paid advertising.

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

About EA games, it was Amiga main partner and must have Amiga developer machines much fastest than third party company.

Strictly speaking, that is incorrect. C= partnered with two games companies - EA and Mindscape - and included material from both of them on Workbench disks that were included with the first A1000's sold in the U.S. in Sept/Oct 1985. Mindscape made the AmigaTutorial and EA was responsible for Kaleidoscope and a (games?) slideshow demo, if I'm not mistaken.

https://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_10.html
http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_11.html

Also, C= sent developer machines to a bunch of other games companies, Infocom and no doubt Activision, among others (see, for example, this link from post #120 ---> Infocom interview with Brian Moriarty)

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Tell me one thing, how do you buy Monkey Business game (Amiga version) in 1985 year, if dont know that this game exist (Amiga version)? After review in Amiga World magazine this game can be sold, not before. Then release date for this game is 1986 year, not 1985 year. Release and creation date can be different, but if for you release date is at first place, then Monkey Business is from 1986 year, if creation date then from 1985 year. Minimum 3 EA games are from 1985 years too.

Asked and answered. Did you read my post #153 before asking this again? (see below)

Originally Posted by DrBong

.....there were plenty of ways to sell games via mail-order in the U.S. in the 1980s if you didn't advertise in computer mags. Richard Garriot and Bill Gates sure as hell didn't spend big on advertising, if at all, for their earliest software products. Again, it's down to a lack of understanding of how the U.S. software market operated compared to markets in the UK and elsewhere in Europe back in the day.

As you probably know - and correct me if I'm wrong - mail-order software companies in the U.S. didn't need to advertise first in computer mags to gain exposure for their new games (or even send them for review to magazines, for that matter). Coders could simply gain exposure for their new games by demonstrating them at weekly user group meetings (which lotsa coders and software buyers alike attended enthusiastically in the pre-internet era) or at computer stores, or by uploading game demos to university servers or online software services (e.g. CompuServe) that were hugely popular among American C64/PC/Mac modem users in the 1980s.

From what I understand, American user groups were an absolute hotbed for new software products in the 1970s/80s, not to mention software piracy. Richard Garriot's Ultima series certainly started out by gaining a huge cult following in this manner, and Bill Gates' first commercial release of Altair Basic was widely pirated at American user group meetings in the mid-1970s - so much so, that he felt compelled to (in)famously write an open letter to U.S. computer hobbyists condemning their user group practices on that front (see HERE).

Desiv pretty much echoed what I wrote above again in post #160 (see below).

Originally Posted by desiv

Surprisingly, an ad in Amigaworld wasn't the only way to let people know you were selling Amiga software. ;-)
There were lots of magazines.
Word of mouth. (Especially in the bay area for the Amiga.)
Exhibition/vendor shows.
BBSs (Old Skool Internet) ;-)
Local computer stores would frequently have product that was never in an Ad or reviewed.

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

I find one more info:
"I distinctly remember seeing this ad in (I think) the very first issue of Amiga World magazine. My parents had just purchased an Amiga 1000 and we needed some games for it. Archon and Seven Cities of Gold were pretty much all that was available at the time… but, boy, were they enough! Such great games. Then mom & dad bought me Marble Madness sometime later and I got absolutely hooked on that, too."

Without scans of receipts for the games bought, it's hard to know what month/year these events occurred in for the individuals making such comments. Nothing but *pure* speculation can result without some sort of timeline being specified when people post such comments about what they remember.

[niobyte]

Might be worth checking the modification dates on each of the different games released between 1985 and early-mid 1986. To see which ones have the earliest date-time stamps.

I would envision some of the infocom titles would have some of the earliest out of most of them. As some of those titles would have been relatively easy to port.

Early Infocom Game Story Data File Dates:

Ballyhoo
07 November 1985

Cutthroats
07 November 1985

Infidel
13 November 1985

Planetfall
07 November 1985

Seastalker
13 November 1985

Wishbringer
23 October 1985

The infocom interpreter for the most part has a date stamp of 07 November 1985. As each of these titles uses the same interpreter and it just loads the 'Story.Data' file.

[Don_Adan]

Originally Posted by DrBong

Apologies for another long, boring post peeps! My next post should more than make up for it, though!!



How do you know whether they were originals or cracks? The person who made the video more than likely used cracks and just edited out the game cracktros (if present). Original disk images could have been taken from anywhere on the net. Funny, how there were original disk images for every game except A Mind Forever Voyaging (text adventure). Why? It's because the Amiga version is quite rare and there are probably no disk scans on the net!



Because all files/directories on the original disk have date stamps with 1986.



Please start carefully reading what has been clearly stated in this thread and in the Monkey Business HOL entry before; also please stop selectively ignoring what has been posted by people here to suit your own opinions. I'm asking politely....so I will just assume that you are trolling if keep doing it. OK?

Just so there is absolutely no doubt due to any language barrier, it bears repeating that Peter Olafson has said more than once or twice since the 1990s that Monkey Business was released in late 1985 and was the first game he received at Amiga World for review. Also, it is no surprise that on the bad "crack" that dlfrsilver upped to the Zone that the most recent game file on the Monkey Business ADF - i.e. the main exec - is date stamped Dec 11, 1985.

Without having an original copy of the disk, we can't be sure if the "cracker" left the main exec and hence the date stamp unmodified. The startup-sequence looks to be unmodified, however, and has a date stamp of Nov 25, 1985. Regardless, I'd sooner trust the date stamps of files on an unmodified original disk of Monkey Business than a bad "crack".



Well, the Mac version was advertised by The Other Valley Software in late 1985 (only once, maybe twice IIRC).....but the publisher didn't do any magazine advertising for the Amiga/ST versions AFAIK. Not surprising because they were a small, new developer/publisher (not just to the Amiga, but the software industry itself back in '85) and probably couldn't afford to do much paid advertising.



Strictly speaking, that is incorrect. C= partnered with two games companies - EA and Mindscape - and included material from both of them on Workbench disks that were included with the first A1000's sold in the U.S. in Sept/Oct 1985. Mindscape made the AmigaTutorial and EA was responsible for Kaleidoscope and a (games?) slideshow demo, if I'm not mistaken.

https://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_10.html
http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_11.html

Also, C= sent developer machines to a bunch of other games companies, Infocom and no doubt Activision, among others (see, for example, this link from post #120 ---> Infocom interview with Brian Moriarty)



Asked and answered. Did you read my post #153 before asking this again? (see below)



Desiv pretty much echoed what I wrote above again in post #160 (see below).





Without scans of receipts for the games bought, it's hard to know what month/year these events occurred in for the individuals making such comments. Nothing but *pure* speculation can result without some sort of timeline being specified when people post such comments about what they remember.

Right, these 7 games can be cracks, i checked this again.
Tell me one thing A1000 was sold without or within RTC?
I think that without. I have Amiga 4kT without worked RTC and i dont change date, when i run this Amiga. Then file date stamp can be only additional proof. F.e. for Hex this is not proof for me. This is easy that product (game) cant be sold without info or advert that this product exist. You dont show Monkey Business Amiga adverts from 1985 year from Amiga magazine or computer magazine or from other magazine. Then this game can not be sold, before review in Amiga World magazine in half 1986 year. For you only words from Peter Olafson are true. I found 2 others infos on the net, than minimum 1 EA game was sold at first in October 1985. Was first Amiga commercial game. I checked disk scans from HOL, and 3 EA games are 1985 year dated. One -on-One, Archon and 7 Cities of Gold. This is proof too, date is visible. Anyway I readed that Archon was delayed. Then only 2 EA games was created/published in 1985 year. You dont have proof that single Monkey Business copy was sold in 1985 year or this game (Amiga version) was adverted in 1985 year. And yes, One-on-One and 7 Cities of gold games were adverted in 1985 year, and has disk stamp from 1985 year. Other Valley sent to Amiga World Monkey Business game with some info, like creation time perhaps and maybe some more infos. For me Monkey Business game was created in end of 1985 year, but was sold in 1986 year. Dont exist proof that was sold in 1985 year. And one extra thing for you, game is not only master disk (final version), you need manual, box etc to be available to be sold. You know this very good.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

You dont show Monkey Business Amiga adverts from 1985 year from Amiga magazine or computer magazine or from other magazine.

Simply not true - I provided the link to the Mac advert in post #69.

https://is.gd/a7x0fa

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

You dont have proof that single Monkey Business copy was sold in 1985 year or this game (Amiga version) was adverted in 1985 year.

A mail-order game (or any game stocked on a computer store shelf, for that matter) doesn't need to sell copies before being deemed "released". As soon as the publisher has copies ready to sell, then that's when the game has been officially released (NOT when the first copy sells!).

It's become clear that you won't acknowledge any information provided that doesn't suit your opinions and beliefs, and that anyone that provides such information is a "liar" as far as you're concerned. Just wait for my next post.....it's going to be a biggie!

Originally Posted by niobyte

Might be worth checking the modification dates on each of the different games released between 1985 and early-mid 1986. To see which ones have the earliest date-time stamps.

I would envision some of the infocom titles would have some of the earliest out of most of them. As some of those titles would have been relatively easy to port.

Yeh, the Infocom interview with Brian Moriarty suggests that Wishbringer may have been the first adventure they released on the Amiga.....but that game was his baby, so who knows. The date stamps you list for the different Infocom adventures seem to lend weight to that, though. My best bet has always been that if Monkey Business wasn't the first Ami game, then it was probably a text/graphics adventure by Infocom or Activision for the reasons you suggest and more.

[niobyte]

I checked some early EA Game titles. They each seem to have late November 1985. Including Marble Madness. Then again these games were not exactly released or on shelves by that point either.

One has to consider that a small unknown publisher/developer at that point could distribute titles out a lot quicker, nimble, etc. With no real impact on reputation, etc.

As they didn't have a reputation to live up to begin with like Activision, EA, Infocom to get things right. They were most likely not relying on software sales for making money, only selling other things e.g. hardware, etc. As back then a lot of software was in some cases distributed for free (cost of materials or a few extra $s for time) or very little cost.

As these bigger publishers/developers were already well known and established on other platforms by this point C64, IBM, Apple, etc (Activision, EA and Infocom already had titles on these platforms by the early 80s). They had at least a bit of reputation upkeep to adhere to.

Wouldn't exactly see the likes of Activision, EA or Infocom by this point release a ziplock bag with a disk and manual or only duplicate 50 to 100 disks in boxes with a manual, etc.

So would make sense that potentially Monkey Business being one of the first to be sent to a magazine. As the bigger publishers would have wanted to get things up to their own standards prior to releasing it for review. Especially on a new platform.

[DrBong]

@niobyte
We'll probably never really know for sure, even if we were to ask all those early coders about when their games were released. A few would've worked on a bunch of projects at the same time, so they might not have had clear memories of release dates a few years after the fact, never mind 30+ years down the track. Common sense thinking is often useful in fact-finding missions too - particularly in interpreting ambiguous info. - but it sometimes leads you down the proverbial garden path. Been there and done that!

Unfortunately, there's always at least one or two zealots that suck all the fun out of threads like this one because they can't or won't control the narcissistic compulsions. Amiga people always seem to have an unhappy knack of taking something good or fun and turning it into something negative. Sad, but it is what it is - that's why we need to become more proactive and take a stand against people behaving badly on public forums like EAB. Either that or just adopt a "stop feeding the animals" stance (wish I was better at that sometimes!).

Anyway, I've done some deep-diving into the U.S. computer mags and rediscovered something really juicy that I came across months ago by accident. It should put the cat amongst the pigeons!

[niobyte]

Nice

Look forward to reading it.

BTW, the Activision titles have later date stamps than the Infocom's ones by days to weeks between them. Same months just later date stamps.

My theory a long time ago (more than 10 years ago), was that the Activision titles were the first ones released. I am not so certain of that now though.

In the same stance as you now if its not 'The Other Valley Software', then its either Infocom or Activision.

I have a few of the original US Infocom boxes. Price Tag Date: 23/05/1986.

[Amigajay]

https://archive.org/details/1986-Premiere/page/n51

Amazing Computing (Jan/Feb 86) list of all available products, no sign of Monkey Business again.

https://archive.org/details/Info_Iss...s_US/page/n127

Info Sep 85, list of all upcoming programs and games, no MB.

https://archive.org/details/Info_Iss...ns_US/page/n23

Info Dec 85, states which games really exist at time of publication (November), they state Hacker and Mindshadow, these two games could be in the running for the first Amiga game imo.

[Don_Adan]

Originally Posted by DrBong

Simply not true - I provided the link to the Mac advert in post #69.

https://is.gd/a7x0fa



A mail-order game (or any game stocked on a computer store shelf, for that matter) doesn't need to sell copies before being deemed "released". As soon as the publisher has copies ready to sell, then that's when the game has been officially released (NOT when the first copy sells!).

It's become clear that you won't acknowledge any information provided that doesn't suit your opinions and beliefs, and that anyone that provides such information is a "liar" as far as you're concerned. Just wait for my next post.....it's going to be a biggie!



Yeh, the Infocom interview with Brian Moriarty suggests that Wishbringer may have been the first adventure they released on the Amiga.....but he was the coder on that game, so who knows. The date stamps you list for the different Infocom adventures seem to lend weight to that, though. My bet has always been that if Monkey Business wasn't the first Ami game, then it was probably a text/graphics adventure by Infocom or Activision.

Ok, if I show you Warhawk advert from Atari ST version. You will be try to buy Amiga version of this game?
I see only Mac 128k and 512k version available to buy for Monkey Business.

And you know that adverts for many Amiga games was available before game was released or published. Some adverted games dont exist for Amiga. Tell me what do you think about f.e TFX or Super Gem'Z or Putty Squad or Nobby the Aardvark or Mega Race.

For the file date stamp. Yes, it can be proof, but we dont know if coder/programmer has correctly set date. And it still needs disk copying/mastering, Amiga manual, box, package and shipping to shops or adverts in magazines. Then it can be only proof for creation date.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

https://archive.org/details/1986-Premiere/page/n51

Amazing Computing (Jan/Feb 86) list of all available products, no sign of Monkey Business again.

Specifically addressed in post #143.

Originally Posted by Amigajay

https://archive.org/details/Info_Iss...s_US/page/n127

Info Sep 85, list of all upcoming programs and games, no MB.

https://archive.org/details/Info_Iss...ns_US/page/n23

Again, the possible reasons why are addressed in post #143. It's getting boring having to constantly link to stuff that has been posted about before in this thread!

Originally Posted by Amigajay

Info Dec 85, states which games really exist at time of publication (November), they state Hacker and Mindshadow, these two games could be in the running for the first Amiga game imo.

Sure they are! Monkey Business isn't the only game in town and never has been ("in all probability" does not equal "100% certain" or even "almost certain"). The truth is out there somewhere and hopefully someone besides Peter Olafson can shed some light on it. Doubt we'll ever know for sure, though.......but it might be nice to have some fun trying to get close to the truth, right?!

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by DrBong

Specifically addressed in post #143.

How exactly? Its a different magazine and different people, don’t just link quotes that aren’t relevant.

Originally Posted by DrBong

Again, the possible reasons why are addressed in post #143. It's getting boring having to constantly link to stuff that has been posted about before in this thread!

Sorry to bore you, but don’t waste time replying unless you can back something up, the evidence is to show games that were out at that time, i see no evidence of Monkey Business to counter it.

Originally Posted by DrBong

Sure they are! Monkey Business isn't the only game in town and never has been ("in all probability" does not equal "100% certain" or even "almost certain"). The truth is out there somewhere and hopefully someone besides Peter Olafson can shed some light on it. Doubt we'll ever know for sure, though.......but it might be nice to have some fun trying to get close to the truth, right?!

Yes we agree on that, but to say something was/is at that time evidence is needed, ive gone through loads of mags and nothing points to Monkey Business being it, of course we cant say it wasn’t, but the fact there is evidence of the other games being out in the form of reviews, adverts and news snippets puts them ahead of Monkey Business, if this was a murder case Monkey Business wouldn’t be a suspect!

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

if this was a murder case Monkey Business wouldn’t be a suspect!

If this were a murder case, the only "witness" ID'd Monkey Business.
It would be the top suspect. ;-)

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

How exactly? Its a different magazine and different people, don’t just link quotes that aren’t relevant.

Yep, my mistake.....thought you were referring to Amiga World. Same principles apply in post #163, though, about the vagaries of mags and why mail-order/indie games like Monkey Business didn't need to gain exposure in mags to begin with (or at all, if publishers preferred other methods like computer store/user group demos etc. etc.). So yeh the post was relevant and you're the one wasting time in this instance and, frankly, boring the shit outta me!

Originally Posted by desiv

If this were a murder case, the only "witness" ID'd Monkey Business.
It would be the top suspect. ;-)

ROFL! AmigaJay might want to go crack someone else's nuts and get his eyes checked!!

[fatbob_gb]

The March 96 issue of Computer Gaming World (page 32) has an article that mentions that "The first games to make it to market were from Activision: Hacker, Mindshadow, and Borrowed Time". It also goes on the talk about why the EA games appeared later than expected.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Im sure that first Amiga commercial game must be one game from Electronic Arts games. Which one, I dont know. But Electronic Arts was Commodore partner and created/converted many software in 1985/1986 for Amiga.

About EA games, it was Amiga main partner and must have Amiga developer machines much fastest than third party company.

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

And Im sure that EA games/utils was sold together with first Amigas. EA created many Amiga standards, like IFF, Deluxe Paint, Deluxe Music etc. Is not logical to sold computer without single game available to buy.

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Im sure that EA games was first Amiga games, I suspect One on One, Archon I or Seven Cities of Gold. Anyway because USA is basketball country, then One on One is the best game to sold as first.

There are a few more posts than what's above where you say that EA *must* have released the first ever commercial game for the Amiga, but I'm sure people get the idea and, frankly, I'm more interested in getting to the truth of the matter (and ruling out EA's first games and other false contenders is part of that process). It is also understandable why you and others think that it can't be anyone else but EA - they hyped up the Amiga and themselves to the max. back in 1985! - but sometimes the most obvious answer is too convenient and turns out to be a stinky red herring.

Unfortunately, obvious and convenient/lazy truths often result in good-quality research not being performed to determine a definitive answer for an important or interesting question. If not a definitive answer, at least one that gets closest to the truth based on the evidence that one has at their disposal at a given point in time.

What is not understandable Don_Adan is your trolling toward those in this thread who have patiently tried to explain to you why and how things were different in the U.S. software market. Saying something over and over doesn't make it true, you know, and doesn't magically persuade people like a jedi mind trick!

Anyway, after much deep-diving into the U.S. mags peeps......I've finally managed to find again something that I read many months ago in the March '86 issue of Computer Gaming World. From what I can gather, CGW was a giant of American gaming mags in the 1980s/90s and they did cover Amiga games with keen interest in the early years. AFAIK, they were the only ones who took the time to explain the reason why EA was late to market with their much-hyped games for the Amiga.

Based on CGW's detailed explanation, it seems fairly clear that EA did not release *any* software (games or otherwise) for the Amiga before the release of Workbench 1.1 in December 1985. Even then, EA apparently chose to release DPaint first before any of their games (One on One, Seven Cities of Gold, Archon) in December 1985.

CGW also write that Hacker, Mindshadow and Borrowed Time from Activision were the first games to make it to market and quickly sold out to starving A1000 users (initial shipments of the games sold out at computer stores??). Anyway, I'm sure there will still be the usual doubters here regardless. There's always at least one or two, but that's life!

'The first games to make it to market were from Activision: Hacker, Mindshadow, and Borrowed Time. These games had just recently been released for other computer systems, and now with enhanced graphics were released for the Amiga. All three are graphic adventures. New Amiga owners, anxious for any software to play with on their machines, bought out initial shipments. Users were pleased with what they saw and heard. But where were the games from EA (Electronic Arts) that had been advertised so much even before the Amiga was available?
.
.
.

An Infocom adventure is always fun, but on the Amiga it is a real pleasure. But where were the EA games?

The answer came soon. The earlier games released were able to use the initial operating system release (1.0). With release 1.1 right around the corner, EA had been using 1.1 for the final design of its production release. This meant the EA titles could not be released until the users had 1.1. The corner ended up being a LONG block away for it was nearly a month from talk of the release of 1.1 to its actual release. Even then EA sent their initial titles to the dealers and many were sold before the users received the official Commodore 1.1 upgrade package.

The first Electronic Arts software release was not a game, but Deluxe Paint, a super sophisticated painting, drawing, coloring and electronic sticker
book.' [see scan below for the full news article by CGW].

EDIT: @fatbob_gb You found it too - well done!

[TjLaZer]

Why all the bickering and arguing about this? Clearly Monkey Business was not a polished big house software release, as it was listed in magazines as a budget release. We should just ask Ron J Fortier about it.

[DrBong]

@TjLaZer
Yep, that's what I have in mind.....make contact with Ron Fortier and other Amiga coders from '85 like Brian Moriarty (ex-Infocom), Bill/Rebecca Heineman and Brian Fargo (ex-Activision), Anne Westfall and Jon Freeman (ex-Freefall/EA). Hoping to get some advice from Cody first on that one since he's done a lot of stuff like that for aGTW.

If people here have any suggestions for good questions to ask these coders, then please fire away.....

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by DrBong

So yeh the post was relevant and you're the one wasting time in this instance and, frankly, boring the shit outta me!

You are correct sir im wasting my time finding evidence of the first Amiga games when your just posting pointless long threads moaning about others and being rude and obnoxious, ill leave you to it.