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Old 10 March 2020, 20:57   #21
Juz400
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In the Earlier days it was also bragging right for European groups to have `US` BBS`s
not many people had USRobotics 9600 HST modems, quite expensive luxury unless you had a friendly Sysop over there to supply them and ship over as `Returned after warranty repair`
towards the ending years huge Text file lists we circulated with the entire worlds `Scene` BBS`s on
Great for getting the Highest Upload speed records if uploaded uncompressed

Last edited by Juz400; 10 March 2020 at 20:58. Reason: spelling?
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:00   #22
saimon69
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Originally Posted by brett71 View Post
I'm not sure if anyone else used the word "fresh", but when I used it, I was referring to a fresh 0-hour crack of a new game or application, not as much demos or MODs.
Well, if the uploader was in example someone like Dr.Awesome, Lizardking, Nuke, Moby or Jogeir Liljedahl or another of the tracker masters you would give that mod much more importance i guess
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:02   #23
Antiriad_UK
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I never tire of the word “lamer” Galahad
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:11   #24
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Originally Posted by saimon69 View Post
So it was said to upload something "fresh" - had that to be a fresh crack or even other kind of medium like demos, homebrew games, music mod files,etc.? (that would explain why so much demos start to come out)
Depends on the group, depends on the board.

so obviously if you're a Fairlight member, you get a disabled ratio to download whatever you like.

But, there are elite modem traders in other groups that might also get a disabled ratio whilst not being a FLT member because they consistently upload fast 0 day old warez from other groups.

So there were no hard and fast rules, down to the sysop of the board, but I can tell you that when I joined Fairlight, I was instantly given disabled ratios on the majority of the BBS's I was on, whether that was out of respect or in the hope that I would upload there should our release not already be up, i couldn't say, but the "rules" were applied by the sysops, but yes, lots of BBS's could only survive on ratios to ensure they were not just a leech board, that they would get the latest releases themselves.
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:15   #25
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Originally Posted by saimon69 View Post
Well, if the uploader was in example someone like Dr.Awesome, Lizardking, Nuke, Moby or Jogeir Liljedahl or another of the tracker masters you would give that mod much more importance i guess
Some of the most Elite BBS's would not allow mod's to be uploaded.

Games, application software, documents, trainers, demos.

On the Elite BBS's, you would be expected to upload the demo that the mod came from, not upload bits of the demo here and there.

The sysops and those that helped keep the board clean would be right on that kind of thing and nuking it.

Only way mods would stay is if it was a scene release, the group Plague for instance did compilation disks with ripped music, but as they were considered a legitimate scene release, they would be allowed.
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:16   #26
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Originally Posted by Antiriad_UK View Post
I never tire of the word “lamer” Galahad
It's been a few years since I used it!

Call someone a "lamer" outside of Amiga scene circles, say in a scrap yard, and the bemused looks you get are really something to treasure!
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:23   #27
th4t1guy
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How were disks packaged? I'm guessing this was before dms images, so would you just unpack the files to a disk and make it bootable, or was there another format?
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:34   #28
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How were disks packaged? I'm guessing this was before dms images, so would you just unpack the files to a disk and make it bootable, or was there another format?
DMS was out in 1987 I think, so its always been a part of the piracy scene with regards to storing disk images.

I'm pretty sure DMS was a commercial program at one point but it got resourced and adapted and improved over the years.
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:37   #29
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WRP images were there before DMS. DMS was super popular in the 90s and it seems various optimized versions of dmswin popped up all the time. :-)

http://cd.textfiles.com/hottest4/TOOLS/AMIGA/DMSWIN.TXT

Chapter 8 has some dates + history. :-)

Last edited by Jope; 10 March 2020 at 21:42.
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Old 10 March 2020, 21:48   #30
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It was not all that elite, most of us were 12-13 years old who were spreading those releases

We just had time and PBX skills to do it for free.

Also plenty of text files telling you how to crack games and crack PBX systems.

Not unlike certain scenes now!
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Old 11 March 2020, 16:29   #31
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I always wondered how you got in there though. I got Little Computer People from a friend who told me to not spread it, as it couldn't be cracked and most people don't know how to copy it. So when I got home, I was bothered because I didn't want to spoil the disc, so I cracked it. He was quite surprised and happy. I even did some cracktro, but never finished it, because it took to long. But I was thinking if I could distribute the crack, and wouldn't even have known how to contact those people.

I often saw the messages, saying that they were looking for crackers.
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Old 11 March 2020, 18:10   #32
rothers
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I think we learned about modems from computer magazines and we always wondered about the phone numbers in cracks. Almost all the phone numbers didn't work any more when we tried them. Found some which did, spoke to people, moved forward, eventually got access to edge of the scene up and coming pirate BBS and once you know a few people it was easy to get on these 'elite' BBSs.

Usually just being nice to the sysop in chat would get you unlimited downloads. It was all kids messing about. Cracking most games was easy with an action replay.

I honestly don't get this 'elite' business. We were council estate idiots and we managed to get on all the main BBSs. It was more just about who had free time to be involved.

Mind this did all end in us being busted by the police when we were 17...
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Old 11 March 2020, 18:43   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
But, there are elite modem traders in other groups that might also get a disabled ratio whilst not being a FLT member because they consistently upload fast 0 day old warez from other groups.
I graduated from lamer with a leech account on a coupla of the Oz BBS's around 1994/95 to modem trader with disabled ratio quite quickly. By that time 0 day old warez BBS's were becoming thinner on ground here and I was grabbing stuff directly from Ami crackers on IRC before they hit the bots in the chat rooms. The Oz sysops were amazed how I was getting stuff before they were from the overseas boards, but it wasn't exactly hard. Of course, upgrading from a 14.4k modem to a 33.6k as soon as they came out probably helped my cause some!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiriad_UK View Post
I never tire of the word “lamer” Galahad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
It's been a few years since I used it!

Call someone a "lamer" outside of Amiga scene circles, say in a scrap yard, and the bemused looks you get are really something to treasure!
Classic!
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Old 11 March 2020, 19:03   #34
saimon69
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Only way mods would stay is if it was a scene release, the group Plague for instance did compilation disks with ripped music, but as they were considered a legitimate scene release, they would be allowed.
This makes me think there was not too much way (actually i would say almost none) for a musician not tightly knit to the scene to display its work beside giving disks in pre-aminet era - in fact, despite was together with Quazar, they did only ONE release with my music; being in a small coastal town did not helped either

(because, deep inside me there is still this little illusion that i might have been one of the greatest, but did not happened then and neither will now )

Last edited by saimon69; 11 March 2020 at 19:54.
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Old 11 March 2020, 19:07   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
It's been a few years since I used it!

Call someone a "lamer" outside of Amiga scene circles, say in a scrap yard, and the bemused looks you get are really something to treasure!
Back in the day in Poland this term had spread like wildfire and became immensely popular, mostly in gaming/computer enthusiast circles but also infecting normies too. I think it's still being used actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rothers View Post
I honestly don't get this 'elite' business. We were council estate idiots and we managed to get on all the main BBSs. It was more just about who had free time to be involved.

Mind this did all end in us being busted by the police when we were 17...
I really like your stories and the down to earth approach to this subject. It would make for a cracking memoir. I lived in UK (well, London :P) for many years and can easily imagine a bunch of council estate haxxor-scallywags and characters like that "crazy Mark" from the market
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Old 11 March 2020, 20:57   #36
xubidoo
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Lamer was also commonly used in some online PC game communities , Quake 2/Quake 3 etc
This was like 1997 to the mid 2000's
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Old 11 March 2020, 23:03   #37
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Lamer Exterminator anyone? Killed so many of my disks
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Old 11 March 2020, 23:44   #38
Galahad/FLT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rothers View Post
I think we learned about modems from computer magazines and we always wondered about the phone numbers in cracks. Almost all the phone numbers didn't work any more when we tried them. Found some which did, spoke to people, moved forward, eventually got access to edge of the scene up and coming pirate BBS and once you know a few people it was easy to get on these 'elite' BBSs.

Usually just being nice to the sysop in chat would get you unlimited downloads. It was all kids messing about. Cracking most games was easy with an action replay.

I honestly don't get this 'elite' business. We were council estate idiots and we managed to get on all the main BBSs. It was more just about who had free time to be involved.

Mind this did all end in us being busted by the police when we were 17...
Unless you were part of groups that were instrumental in being responsible for those 0 day warez at the point they were released, then no, you wouldn't understand "this elite business".

The difference in being on USS Enterprise or Zions Hideout was MASSIVE in comparison to the likes of Mirage, The Ghetto, End of the World, Danse Macabre.... Elite BBS's got the releases SECONDS after they were cracked, the ones that were not Elite, got them hours after.......... in the world of cracking, hours might as well have been weeks!

And I don't remember any kids in Fairlight, maybe in the c64 days, but not Amiga lol
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Old 12 March 2020, 02:24   #39
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What sucked was the cost of a hard drive in those days. I think I paid $600 for a 20 MB Trumpcard back in 1989. And all the Europeans using AT&T calling cards brought attention to an elite US BBS. I remember being threatened by AT&T about all the fraud. They tried to say that I was an accomplice, which was stupid as a sysop can’t control how someone calls the board.
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Old 12 March 2020, 02:37   #40
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The whole elite/lamer dichotomy was pretty stupid and silly in general. Ultimately it was meaningless -- we all were just copying software. I mean, out of the scene came many people I genuinely look up to for their coding skills -- both in their ability to reverse-engineer (like you, Galahad) and in their ability to create great demos, and games when they moved on from the scene, but I sort of chafe at the sense of superiority some people in the scene had just because they were getting releases out faster, like they were somehow better human beings. But it's exciting when you're 14 and are getting unlimited ratio because of your skills. =P I struggled to be elite and not a lamer but now I realize how I was just using it as a crutch due to having zero social status in real life.

The skills were real (and made me a lot of money later in life), but I'm not especially proud of how I gauged my self-worth with them.

For all the talk sysops made bitching about freeloaders who couldn't keep their ratio, ultimately everyone was a freeloader. We all were. I didn't know a single person with a (non-business) computer who wasn't.

In the end I wish I could go back and give us all an Amiga equivalent of gog.com, or the humble store, etc. Easily available, DRM-free, affordable. Bedroom coders back then would have shit themselves at how awesome it is.

The warez scene would probably still exist (as it does today), but I think it would have been a lot different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zodiac View Post
What sucked was the cost of a hard drive in those days. I think I paid $600 for a 20 MB Trumpcard back in 1989. And all the Europeans using AT&T calling cards brought attention to an elite US BBS. I remember being threatened by AT&T about all the fraud. They tried to say that I was an accomplice, which was stupid as a sysop can’t control how someone calls the board.
There were way more elegant ways to make the calls anyway. A lot of groups relied way too heavily on basic cards, but after blue boxing stopped working it was all they knew how to do. xD ANI spoofing was a big one, you could do whatever you wanted then coupled with other services. Just bill everything to a line that already made tons of expensive calls and nobody would audit it.

Last edited by AmigaHope; 12 March 2020 at 02:45.
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