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Old 20 October 2017, 04:47   #1
Codetapper
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Floppy disk Babylonian Twins Kickstarter

I received this email a few hours ago regarding Babylonian Twins:
-----
Help launch a Kickstarter campaign for Babylonian Twins

Hello,

This is Rabah, the game creator. You are receiving this email because you have subscribed to Babylonian Twins Amiga mailing list.

I would like to first thank you for all your support since the game came public on Youtube in 2007. Your support not only gave me the motivation to launch the mobile remake, but also helped in getting the story behind the game's development out, shedding the light on the situation we lived under the sanctions in Iraq back in the 90s.

I have been receiving many emails urging me to get the original game out, but only now I think I have the plan, the tools and most importantly the bandwidth to do this.

First some context, as most of you probably already know, developing Babylonian Twins under an economic sanctions was not an easy project. As with most indie developers, part of my motivation back then was financial, but for reasons beyond my control, including the sanctions and the demise of Commodore, the game was never published.

In 2009, when I decided to do the mobile remake, my motivation was also partly financial. I was hoping to recoup my previous loss and make enough revenue to help me continue my passion of building great games. But unfortunately, despite all the publicity the game received, the revenues didn't even cover the expenses of the remake. In fact the loss was even greater since I had to leave my job back then to completely focus on the game.

We are now 10 years away from 2007 and I think the tools to achieve both financial reward and fulfill the promise to the retro Amiga community are there. It also just happens that I have some bandwidth now to give this project some dedication.

I am basically planning to do a Kickstarter for the project. The Kickstarter deliverable will include the full original Amiga game (5 complete stages) in a collector packaging and in digital format. It will also include a desktop (PC/Mac and probably Linux) version of the retro edition. The desktop version will be a port, and unlike the current remake, it will use the exact graphics, music, sounds and maps of the original Amiga version.

I am writing to you because I need your support. To make this Kickstarter project a success we need some initial momentum. Currently, we only have 230 subscribers on this list. If every one of you convinced 3 friends to join by end of this month, we will hit 1000 supporters and that will probably be enough to kickstart a successful funding campaign in November. You can simply forward this email to your friends.

If you have any question or suggestion, you can reach out at contact@babyloniantwins.com

Thanks
Rabah
http://babyloniantwins.com/amiga.html
-----
Personally, I think the guy's got bloody cheek to come back to the Amiga community 10 years after we publicised his game. I have tried to contact this guy multiple times, and was ignored every time. At the time, many people said they would be happy to pay for a boxed version of the game if they just got it out, but everyone was ignored.

I am pretty sure I remember them bragging how it was the #1 or #2 game in the iOS store for a while (before saturation point), and now he's bleating about not making any money and actually costing him more to create the mobile versions people didn't want anyway!

I'm sure there will be some on here who will be excited about this game, but I suspect that if the kickstarter doesn't go well, he will head for the hills with the Amiga version once again. Thoughts?
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Old 20 October 2017, 07:52   #2
Gzegzolka
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I am not sure if Kickstarter and Amiga could work together well, those are two different things in my opinion. Games for ios or windows could be successful there, but I have not seen any great result with amiga. There were few Pateron projects that also were not that much successful, it is like it is not well fit platform for retro projects.
If there was digital version of Babylon Twins with reasonable price I would love to buy it. But if price was too high I will pass than.
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Old 20 October 2017, 08:52   #3
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I share exactly the same feeling and experience with Codetapper. I also tried to contact them, was absolutely ignored and my (positive) comment for Amiga version was used as a shameless marketing support for their mobile remake. I remember all those promises and I do not forget and do not trust anymore.
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Old 20 October 2017, 09:34   #4
Galahad/FLT
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I too was ignored, after promises to release ten years ago, i'm afraid my goodwill toward them has evaporated.

And its quite clear to me that if its financial recompense he wants to achieve, hes going to rinse Amiga owners to try and get the money he thinks should have been forthcoming from the mobile version, and it wont be cheap.

Much as I would finally like to see the Amiga version get released, im also mindful of the guy ignoring people ten years ago, and now i only interested in using us when it suits him.

I just dont care anymore.
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Old 20 October 2017, 09:44   #5
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As much as I want another unreleased Amiga game finally released, i can’t see the Amiga market is big enough to support a Kickstarter, the only way to get a few hundred sales is go the Tanks Furry route of being very cheap, anything over £10/$15 and people always think twice and compare to what they could buy for their current machines.

But let’s wait and see, from the email he says $15-$30 and 1000 subscribers, which imo is very wishing thinking, but I’d only support if there is a CD32 pressed version for max £20 if your reading!
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Old 20 October 2017, 11:14   #6
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I highly doubt he would succeed with this Kickstarter project, mostly because of all the factors you mentioned above, but I am considering to support it. If he just put it up for sale as a digital download, I would pay a fiver for it. Not more, because of him being 'not so nice' with the Amiga community (and I bought the Android version already), but I still badly want this game to be finally released.
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Old 20 October 2017, 11:19   #7
StingRay
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His Kickstarter campaign should be supported the same way he supported the Amiga community.
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Old 20 October 2017, 11:45   #8
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10 years after is a little late.
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Old 20 October 2017, 12:20   #9
Solo Kazuki
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Erm... Guys, mind that developers are from Iraq. And this "ten years of silence" might be caused by "some turmoil" in Iraq.

So that campain could also means, that they are "online" again.
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Old 20 October 2017, 12:26   #10
wanderer
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I don't believe we should focus on the developers, what they are/aren't or what they did/didn't in the past. If anyone wants to finally play this game, I see no harm in paying a reasonable amount of money. It's about our Amiga getting yet another release.

Personally, I don't really care if the developers are pricks, greedy or whatever (not saying they are because I can't really know - not saying they aren't either).
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Old 20 October 2017, 12:27   #11
happymondays
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AFAIR he moved to the US or Canada quite some time ago, not that it matters, I would still give him a fiver for the game.
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Old 20 October 2017, 12:28   #12
PortuguesePilot
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I've expressed my feelings in the other thread regarding the game. In short: I'm with Codetapper and all the others expressing similar views. **** them.
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Old 20 October 2017, 12:37   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki View Post
Erm... Guys, mind that developers are from Iraq. And this "ten years of silence" might be caused by "some turmoil" in Iraq.

So that campain could also means, that they are "online" again.
Is is not the case. According this interview http://obligement.free.fr/articles_t...wshihab_en.php they left Iraq many years ago.

This Kickstarter campaign is going to fail big time. The author will probably blame Amigans but he should blame himself in the first time.
Create successful campaign is not easy task and from the email I have bad feeling he has no clue what he is doing. Amigans are not interested in PC/Mac/Linux version and PC/Max/Linux users are not looking for 20+ years old 320x200px game that was released in better shape on mobile devices years ago.

I would say he can sell few hundreds (my guess would be 200–300) copies for 10–15 bucks ($8 or $9 digital, $15 nice boxed version) and that's it.
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Old 20 October 2017, 12:55   #14
clebin
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All this animosity seems a bit over-the-top to me. Isn't it up to him when and how he releases his own game? Is he not allowed to make money on it?

Predseda's comment makes me think maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really understand the anger here.
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Old 20 October 2017, 13:07   #15
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i dont care about the past. i was slightly disappointing when it didn't come to fruition a few years back but not enough to hate those involved. I just forgot about it.. at the end of the day who makes the game is irrelevant.

Developing a high quality Amiga game is a different kettle of fish compared to making a C64 game. and apart from the likes of Reshoot R and Tanks Furry all we get is amos stuff needing an 030 to run; and even then they still manage to have jerky scrolling.

I for one will be having a look at the kickstater. We need more high quality games for the Amiga, end of.

lets make it a reality!

Last edited by trydowave; 20 October 2017 at 13:17.
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Old 20 October 2017, 13:12   #16
Galahad/FLT
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Originally Posted by clebin View Post
All this animosity seems a bit over-the-top to me. Isn't it up to him when and how he releases his own game? Is he not allowed to make money on it?

Predseda's comment makes me think maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really understand the anger here.
You are missing details.

The only reason Babylonian Twins got a mobile release is because of EAB.

Someone discovered a demo of the Amiga version on youtube, and posted details on EAB.

That generated interest which ballooned, which then lead to the original creator of the game renewing his plans to release the Amiga version based on the interest EAB generated, he even made an account on here.

Then he decided he was going to do a mobile version first based on the interest, and release the Amiga version soon after.......this didnt happen.

Instead, after months of trying and asking, they simply ignored any further enquiries about the Amiga version.

That was ten years ago, and now has the temerity to show up after ignoring people, expecting them to be good little customers, and lap up whats served.

No.

I dont believe for one second that the mobile version lost money, its only now that its ten years later and the mobile version is no longer making money is why they are now wanting to revisit the Amiga version.

But theres a catch, as before, the only way to get the Amiga version is if another version is realised.

Why would anyone believe them a second time? The Amiga version was supposed to happen after the mobile release, now, it will happen after the PC/Mac/Linux Versions.

If the game made no money on mobile (which I dont believe), why would anyone consider releasing on PC/Mac/Linux???????????

The reason why we wont see the Amiga version is because it can be emulated on mobile, pc, mac and linux, once its released, people will simply take the Amiga version and emulate it.

The mobile version can already be emulated on PC with the Android SDK, there is no PC market for this game.

I will not raise my hopes of them treating Amiga owners favourably or honestly when their history shows them to be utterly unreliable.
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Old 20 October 2017, 13:45   #17
clebin
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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
The only reason Babylonian Twins got a mobile release is because of EAB
The only reason it got a mobile release is because he put the effort into making it. A lot more effort than anyone put into writing some posts on a forum. I think we're getting a bit big for our boots if we think EAB takes bigger credit than the actual author and gets to demand terms about what he does with his work. 'Discovering' something on YouTube isn't exactly Raiders of the Lost Ark and signing up for an EAB account didn't commit him to diddly squat.

I haven't changed my opinion, sorry. He said he was going to release it earlier and he changed his mind. It happens. Maybe he was on a downer about not covering his living expenses and realising his dream of being a full-time games developer (which you disbelieve, but really, how would you know?) I feel his email was pretty honest about his financial motivation behind all this. Back it or don't back it (I'm not sure) but as I said, this anger is way OTT.
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Old 20 October 2017, 13:58   #18
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In my opinion, a game has to be really special to succeed in kickstarter.
There are much bigger names with a bigger market that failed on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...s-back/updates
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-classic-first
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Old 20 October 2017, 14:01   #19
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Galahad , who cares about all that stuff mate. In the end he doesn't have to answer to anyone here as hes not really part of the Amiga community or an Amiga fan. Hes here to make money (like every other developer)... hes not Richard Löwenstein doing it out of love for the Amiga.

In the end you don't have to support it but I and i'm guessing Clebin and others would like to see this released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
In my opinion, a game has to be really special to succeed in kickstarter.
There are much bigger names with a bigger market that failed on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...s-back/updates
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-classic-first
personally i dont care to much for pc remakes. Superfrog HD anyone.
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Old 20 October 2017, 14:12   #20
clebin
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In my opinion, a game has to be really special to succeed in kickstarter.
There are much bigger names with a bigger market that failed on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...s-back/updates
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-classic-first
You're probably right, although £90-100k goal maybe puts them in a different category. Not even Dizzy met its goal and the remake looked beautiful. A less well known title could scrape £1-2k on Kickstarter, but even then... yeah, not easy.
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