Bad Apple Amiga Version

[sovenyimre]

Bad Apple 3D Test video

https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/bad-apple-3d

[Nightshft]

Some glitches, but other than that nice and promising! (WinUae)

Got Sound but no picture on real HW. On A500, ACA500+ it wasn't that much of a surprise, but on A1200, Aca1233n (030@40) from CF and even from "RAM:" (!) I thought I would work, but it did not.

Edit: This is a completely different approach though, so not sure if this should stay here or be moved to a separate thread.

[sovenyimre]

Originally Posted by Nightshft

Some glitches, but other than that nice and promising! (WinUae)

Got Sound but no picture on real HW. On A500, ACA500+ it wasn't that much of a surprise, but on A1200, Aca1233n (030@40) from CF and even from "RAM:" (!) I thought I would work, but it did not.

Edit: This is a completely different approach though, so not sure if this should stay here or be moved to a separate thread.

First posts are about ANIM formats.... and it is a "compressed" raster animation. Even if I like the vectorized format much better, it can not give you much details like a video does. True, indeed different approach but the topic is launched to find solutions for BAD APPLE, to reduce the amount of visual data in a way an Amiga can handle and I think this is one of many approaches.

[chiark]

Yep, keep hacking, there may be techniques that complement each other well... !

[Yannick]

This thread is for anyone trying to run Bad Apple on Amiga.
Whatever the technical solution is.
Personally I believe that if you try to compress it enough to fit on vintage media vector graphics give much better results. For better results, bitmap data is a better choice but I haven’t seen yet a good match between quality and size (Atari st is huge and nice, c64 is small but lacks in quality)

[chiark]

Was messaging Ross thinking that there might be a way to combine the two...

[sovenyimre]

Originally Posted by Yannick

This thread is for anyone trying to run Bad Apple on Amiga.
Whatever the technical solution is.
Personally I believe that if you try to compress it enough to fit on vintage media vector graphics give much better results. For better results, bitmap data is a better choice but I haven’t seen yet a good match between quality and size (Atari st is huge and nice, c64 is small but lacks in quality)

What I am working on is try to find the movements in video and store only that part in raw data, not RLE or else. The encoder search for big movements and small long time changes, also sort and long time luminance changes so there is 4 adjustable value how the encoder works. It is working on HAM6 too. My brain is only works amos basic but I think it gives a goog ballance in quality and size but not in loading speed. I did it because of Bad Apple and I did not find anything like that on amiga. Please tell me if you know one exists.

There is a new version in in the previous link with better encoded quality.
You see what I am talking about If you hold space durning playback.

[gsoravil]

Originally Posted by Yannick

This thread is for anyone trying to run Bad Apple on Amiga.
Whatever the technical solution is.
Personally I believe that if you try to compress it enough to fit on vintage media vector graphics give much better results. For better results, bitmap data is a better choice but I haven’t seen yet a good match between quality and size (Atari st is huge and nice, c64 is small but lacks in quality)

I just stumbled across this thread. I was working on this Sunday night. I also was jealous of the Atari ST version. Operative phrase is "was jealous".

First off, for reference I consider this the definitive version to aspire to:
[ Show youtube player ]

With that said, I present my personal solution, Hi-Res (640) mode, full screen, 30fps, 28KHz stereo digi. Captured from real hardware:
[ Show youtube player ]

(Currently "unlisted" but publically accessible. I am friends with Anthony of Guru Meditation and may have him post it to that channel if he's interested.)

It is powered by creative use of the latest of Movec's agaconv/AGABlaster toolchain. TBH, this was an experiment that I didn't expect to work. (At least not at 30fps without dropped frames.) Most notably I reduced it to four bitplanes (16 colors) and if I remember right I used ehb mode.

The fact that this is an extension of using one of Commodore's own patents just puts even more salt on the wounds of their demise. To be fair, there was no way we would have had storage this fast or large in 1992.

I would happily make more videos about the process and my setup if so desired. Questions and feedback welcome (or comment on the YouTube video page itself).

Greg

[sovenyimre]

Originally Posted by chiark

Was messaging Ross thinking that there might be a way to combine the two...

I wonder how many of you remember the series "La linea"?
Vectorized.... whole partsof that could fit on a single floppy.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by sovenyimre

I wonder how many of you remember the series "La linea"?
Vectorized.... whole partsof that could fit on a single floppy.

Without the audio, though - and THAT was a strong part of the appeal :/

[chip]

Yep, soundtrack is essential in demos (and games too)

[malko]

Originally Posted by sovenyimre

I wonder how many of you remember the series "La linea"? [...]

I do


source: https://littlenemo-carouge.weebly.co...cavandoli.html

[Yannick]

I remember too, I could give it a try, but the algorithm behind vectorized bad apple is generating polygons, La Linea would better work with poly lines.
I let you know how it looks once I find time for this

[Nightshft]

Originally Posted by sovenyimre

There is a new version in in the previous link with better encoded quality.

Gave the new version a quick testrun on real HW.
Now audio and video work on 1200+Aca1233n when run from CF0 or RAM. Video is too slow though - interestingly in both cases.
Nice progress. I guess the 3d version needs quite more blocks updated/blitted per frame.

Originally Posted by sovenyimre

You see what I am talking about If you hold space durning playback.

That's interesting.

[sovenyimre]

Originally Posted by Nightshft

That's interesting.

Yes, it is interesting but also a dead end, because even in the case of a stock machine, the difference in HDD speed between the emulation and the real hw is so big that what is fluid on (A1200+Fast Ram) winuae it becomes unusable 2-3 fps on the original hw... Sadly, winuae tricked me.
Video player base: https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/amos-video-player

[Tigerskunk]

I have seen Ross's version, and that looks fabulous...

[stevelord]

Originally Posted by gsoravil

With that said, I present my personal solution, Hi-Res (640) mode, full screen, 30fps, 28KHz stereo digi. Captured from real hardware:
[ Show youtube player ]

Nice! What agaconv switches did you use to encode the file, and how big did it turn out? I went down the anim route because of the huge size differences between that and AGAconv. My 320x256 vids were coming in around 230mb IIRC.

[sovenyimre]

I also tried the fit on 880K challange, using AmosPro.
It is vectorized but only lines, no polys because of the basic speed.
Result is not so pretty but Working

Silent but will play music if there is BadApple.mod near the executable.
Requirements: Amiga 68K with 2mb Ram.

https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/b...iga-vectorized

...and extra with the same technik ....La Linea
https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/lalinea-amiga

[malko]

For a "bad apple" à la "la linea", it's really good indeed
Really nice work !

[Yannick]

Hi,

Nice work given it's done with AMOS!
One of the biggest challenge we have with Ross is to pack all data on one floppy.
We are using a little bit more than 1 16bit word/point.
Also the control words (number points / polygon, frame start, frame end, etc) is minimised.

It would be nice to share with you in order to reach the best possible compression rate.

With current setup, we are squeezing approximately 36000 polygons / 500000 points on one floppy.