Box scans

Antiriad · 16 December 2002, 21:39

Lo all, been doing some box scans recently and noticed how on HOL some of them looked, well kinda knackered in places.

My own collection isnt immune to the effects of time, and so as ive scanned ive attempted to airbrush out the ravages.

I just wanted to know what others thought of this action.

Should i or others attempt to do this with their scans?

Antiriad · 16 December 2002, 21:41

Heres one not amended

Antiriad · 16 December 2002, 21:42

And one after a airbrush sesh

Twistin'Ghost · 16 December 2002, 22:31

Nice work. I do this on all of my scans, as well. It's what I do at my job anyhow (processing images for print), so I can't help myself. I know Walker probably gets impatient waiting on me to get him my scans sometimes, but I'm rather particular about making them look as good (or often better) than when they were first bought. I say better because I have received several games still in shrinkwrap, but suffering from crushed box or something like that. I don't modify them for personal preference or anything like that, just to the original sheen. Plus I work on machines with monitors calibrated for color and brightness levels, so I never have the "too dark" or "too light" issues.

I would even like to "remaster" some of the existing images in the database after I take care of more pressing issues of data entry.

RCK · 16 December 2002, 23:40

Don't know, the work times have also a charm for me

Djay · 16 December 2002, 23:53

not sure its a good thing or bad thing.... but your work is very impressive

CodyJarrett · 16 December 2002, 23:55

That's great!

I didn't think about doing this for all my scans...

Dastardly · 16 December 2002, 23:56

Personally Id like to see them as they are, untouched.

Djay · 17 December 2002, 00:01

maybe... if there was a notice on the front page of HOL requesting better quality boxes, for scanning.. instead of messing (!) with the original...

and... how about having thumbnails to the scanned image (as they are pretty big pics)

Twistin'Ghost · 17 December 2002, 00:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Dastardly
Personally Id like to see them as they are, untouched.

Is there any advantage to this? The idea is to display the original artwork for the release from the box, not to preserve the condition of a worn box. I'm all for preservation, but not of wear and tear. It would be the equal to preserving read/write errors from disks just because that's the way they were dumped.

Dastardly · 17 December 2002, 00:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Dastardly
Personally

Theres no particular advantage to this no. I tend to agree with Djay, scan the best possible condition box available. Theres just something I dont like about it. Just my opinion.

17 December 2002, 01:03

I voted yes though I'm still not sure. Antiriad may successfully fix an image but can anyone else?

Konrad · 17 December 2002, 01:05

I Agree with Twist.
It's not that you remove details but add the missing ones.

I understand the point preserving the original, but take it this way:
you have a bad scanner and the red areas of the picture appear orange. You would adjust the color balance, brightness and contrast to match the original, won't you ? Or the picture is blurrish, so you sharpen it a bit. That's manipulating to preserve the original look of the box.

So when we're already at it (color adjustment, sharpening,...) why not remove the scratches to make it match the original?

Djay · 17 December 2002, 01:14

i did buy a super condition Wing Commander, because my original box was knackered... i suppose the art world goes through this problem all the time

Twistin'Ghost · 17 December 2002, 01:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Burseg
I voted yes though I'm still not sure. Antiriad may successfully fix an image but can anyone else?

If you know your way around Photoshop (or whatever), yes. I can give you all the before and after shots you need; just say the word.

blackcornflake · 17 December 2002, 02:14

I concur with the pro-image treatment lobby, and I also treat scans if the original subject has been damaged, particularly if in some significant way.

Twist makes an excellent parallel between box condition and disk condition. Some characteristics of a box (like creases or dents), although authentic, would be best cleaned up. The crux of the matter for me is that the images created by scanning and subsequently displayed in HOL are just that - digital images, 1s and 0s. Not the actual boxes. Even a perfect scan with no treatment is not actually the real thing, so tweaking the digital image isn't really making it any more or less 'authentic'. The same concept was more eloquently put by the surrealist René Magritte in 1929, with the inscription below his painting of a pipe: "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" (This is not a pipe).

fiath · 17 December 2002, 09:56

This is a bloody good poll!!

If you have not already done so, please vote on it!

At C.A.P.S., we are facing exactly the same dilema. We strive for perfection (hehe, C.A.P.S. are Borg) and preservation, but does that mean we do it or not? Our scans are all 300dpi and currently if a box is in bad condition - we find another.

Of course, there are other factors. How much time does it take to do? I don't have Photoshop, but even if I did, I don't think I would know how to do it... Just another thing added to the long process that needs to be done when releasing a game... Guess how much time we have left to decide! (not much)

Isn't there a risk adding (or removing) detail not present on the box? Certainly that re-done image looks very good... But...

Nothing is ever simple!

17 December 2002, 10:26

I reckon boxes should be touched up, but only if done by someone 'qualified'. Antiriad's example looks great, but obviously it takes time and when your dealing with a huge database like HOL it would take dedication. Still if its like your job Twistin' your more obviously 'qualified' so yer welcome to re-master any of the scans I upload.

Twistin'Ghost · 17 December 2002, 11:24

Quote:

Originally posted by NytroX86
I reckon boxes should be touched up, but only if done by someone 'qualified'. Antiriad's example looks great, but obviously it takes time and when your dealing with a huge database like HOL it would take dedication. Still if its like your job Twistin' your more obviously 'qualified' so yer welcome to re-master any of the scans I upload.

That's a real good point and one I was gonna make following Burseg's comment, but I forgot. It should definitely be done by qualified image manipulation people. I have been doing this sort of thing for a long time, going back to my days of working on a TV news pre-production staff (which is where I had to trade in my Amiga skills for Photoshop). Clearly Antiriad knows his stuff, as well. Very often at work now, I keep before and after pics because some of the restorations I do (like on obit mugs) are remarkable. I often get solicited by people to do restoration work on their old photos and such, which I have to turn down simply because there is no time in my life. Removing lint, debris and markings from a boxscan doesn't change the original appearance and I never attempt to correct the original artist or designer's vision. Likewise, if restoring a portrait I never remove scars or other physical features. Although I have (upon request) removed everything from acne to mustaches to hair color, etc.

Amiga1992 · 17 December 2002, 14:22

I would do teh retouch as well, I've done it before. But the scans I uploaded yesterday are absolutely untouched. I just don't have enough time to fix up every box! Wish I could though.

View Poll Results: Should Box scans be airbrushed?
Yes, make em look new again!	26	74.29%
No! I want to see em warts and all!	9	25.71%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

16 December 2002, 21:39	#1
Antiriad The Sacred Armour Of Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sussex, UK Age: 44 Posts: 1,141	Box scans Lo all, been doing some box scans recently and noticed how on HOL some of them looked, well kinda knackered in places. My own collection isnt immune to the effects of time, and so as ive scanned ive attempted to airbrush out the ravages. I just wanted to know what others thought of this action. Should i or others attempt to do this with their scans?

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16 December 2002, 21:41	#2
Antiriad The Sacred Armour Of Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sussex, UK Age: 44 Posts: 1,141	Heres one not amended

16 December 2002, 21:42	#3
Antiriad The Sacred Armour Of Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sussex, UK Age: 44 Posts: 1,141	And one after a airbrush sesh

16 December 2002, 22:31	#4
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	Nice work. I do this on all of my scans, as well. It's what I do at my job anyhow (processing images for print), so I can't help myself. I know Walker probably gets impatient waiting on me to get him my scans sometimes, but I'm rather particular about making them look as good (or often better) than when they were first bought. I say better because I have received several games still in shrinkwrap, but suffering from crushed box or something like that. I don't modify them for personal preference or anything like that, just to the original sheen. Plus I work on machines with monitors calibrated for color and brightness levels, so I never have the "too dark" or "too light" issues. I would even like to "remaster" some of the existing images in the database after I take care of more pressing issues of data entry.

16 December 2002, 23:40	#5
RCK Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Paris / France Age: 45 Posts: 3,086	Don't know, the work times have also a charm for me

16 December 2002, 23:53	#6
Djay 95th User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brighton/UK Age: 48 Posts: 3,120	not sure its a good thing or bad thing.... but your work is very impressive

16 December 2002, 23:55	#7
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,160	That's great! I didn't think about doing this for all my scans...

16 December 2002, 23:56	#8
Dastardly Into the Wonderful Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: England Age: 49 Posts: 2,335	Personally Id like to see them as they are, untouched.

17 December 2002, 00:01	#9
Djay 95th User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brighton/UK Age: 48 Posts: 3,120	maybe... if there was a notice on the front page of HOL requesting better quality boxes, for scanning.. instead of messing (!) with the original... and... how about having thumbnails to the scanned image (as they are pretty big pics)

17 December 2002, 01:03	#12
oldpx Posts: n/a	I voted yes though I'm still not sure. Antiriad may successfully fix an image but can anyone else?

17 December 2002, 01:05	#13
Konrad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 742	I Agree with Twist. It's not that you remove details but add the missing ones. I understand the point preserving the original, but take it this way: you have a bad scanner and the red areas of the picture appear orange. You would adjust the color balance, brightness and contrast to match the original, won't you ? Or the picture is blurrish, so you sharpen it a bit. That's manipulating to preserve the original look of the box. So when we're already at it (color adjustment, sharpening,...) why not remove the scratches to make it match the original?

17 December 2002, 01:14	#14
Djay 95th User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brighton/UK Age: 48 Posts: 3,120	i did buy a super condition Wing Commander, because my original box was knackered... i suppose the art world goes through this problem all the time

17 December 2002, 02:14	#16
blackcornflake Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cereal box Posts: 794	I concur with the pro-image treatment lobby, and I also treat scans if the original subject has been damaged, particularly if in some significant way. Twist makes an excellent parallel between box condition and disk condition. Some characteristics of a box (like creases or dents), although authentic, would be best cleaned up. The crux of the matter for me is that the images created by scanning and subsequently displayed in HOL are just that - digital images, 1s and 0s. Not the actual boxes. Even a perfect scan with no treatment is not actually the real thing, so tweaking the digital image isn't really making it any more or less 'authentic'. The same concept was more eloquently put by the surrealist René Magritte in 1929, with the inscription below his painting of a pipe: "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" (This is not a pipe).

17 December 2002, 09:56	#17
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	This is a bloody good poll!! If you have not already done so, please vote on it! At C.A.P.S., we are facing exactly the same dilema. We strive for perfection (hehe, C.A.P.S. are Borg) and preservation, but does that mean we do it or not? Our scans are all 300dpi and currently if a box is in bad condition - we find another. Of course, there are other factors. How much time does it take to do? I don't have Photoshop, but even if I did, I don't think I would know how to do it... Just another thing added to the long process that needs to be done when releasing a game... Guess how much time we have left to decide! (not much) Isn't there a risk adding (or removing) detail not present on the box? Certainly that re-done image looks very good... But... Nothing is ever simple!

17 December 2002, 10:26	#18
NytroX86 Posts: n/a	I reckon boxes should be touched up, but only if done by someone 'qualified'. Antiriad's example looks great, but obviously it takes time and when your dealing with a huge database like HOL it would take dedication. Still if its like your job Twistin' your more obviously 'qualified' so yer welcome to re-master any of the scans I upload.

17 December 2002, 14:22	#20
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I would do teh retouch as well, I've done it before. But the scans I uploaded yesterday are absolutely untouched. I just don't have enough time to fix up every box! Wish I could though.

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