English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 13 November 2017, 19:52   #21
number6
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzlpoa View Post
This is what you get..... trandmarks exchange hands further down the line..

I think Cloanto has some 'small' stake in this one as well (well they always did)

"Cloanto owns the Amiga Forever and Workbench trademarks and the copyrights to the Commodore/Amiga works as described above."

I know Gateway no longer does

http://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2015-02-00027-EN.html
Actually, your link from AmigaNews.de only represented a snapshot in time.
Both Hyperion and Cloanto have filed for "workbench" and "amigaforever" in the European Union (euipo). In addition, both have opposed the filings of each other.
Last status for all 4 filings = "Communication of the date of commencement of proceedings to the opposing party"

Links to all these documents are posted in the trademark thread I linked to above.

#6
number6 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 13 November 2017, 20:06   #22
Lord Aga
MI clan prevails
Lord Aga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 938
If only they could both lose at court and go bankrupt...
Lord Aga is offline  
Old 24 December 2017, 17:27   #23
number6
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
If only they could both lose at court and go bankrupt...
Your wish? for court came true anyway:

Cloanto Corporation v. Hyperion Entertainment C.V.B.A.

full text of the complaint

Case begins at
Quote:
Case 5:17-cv-01353-LEK-ATB Document 1 Filed 12/14/17 Page 1 of 16
Prior to that is just the announcement on suspension of Hyperion's complaint.

This all might serve to explain why questions about release dates for certain products are not being responded to directly atm.

#6
number6 is offline  
Old 24 December 2017, 18:24   #24
NorthWay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Grimstad / Norway
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by number6 View Post
Your wish? for court came true anyway:
Ok... now, I read that faster and faster, but didn't it basically say nobody has the 3.1 source rights? Neither Cloanto nor Hyperion.
NorthWay is offline  
Old 24 December 2017, 19:46   #25
frank_b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston USA
Posts: 400
The end result of this might be no new ROMS. Only Amiga makes it possible... Sigh
frank_b is offline  
Old 25 December 2017, 11:12   #26
Cv365
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Amigaville
Posts: 15
According to the court document Cloanto claim that they acquired the ownership of the copyright to Kickstart 1.3 in 2011 and 2012, but how is unclear to me.

They also claim to have bought a perpetual license to copy, distribute, market and sell object code of all AmigaOS/Workbenches until 3.1 from Amiga Inc's predecessor for a measly 20.000 DM (about 10.000 euros) in 1997. It kinda hurts to realize the Amiga rights were sold off for just 10K, especially given the copyright mess we're in now.

Such a shame that this 30 year old software is still being held hostage by these clowns.

Note also this line:

5. Since 1999, Plaintiff has operated the website, www.amigaforever.com, selling its own emulation software, cross-platform networking software, and native AMIGA software.

Its own emulation software? Yeah, more like taking other people's hard work done for free on WinUAE, slapping your name onto it and selling it for a quick buck and to 'protect your trademarks'.
Cv365 is offline  
Old 26 December 2017, 05:30   #27
Minuous
Coder/webmaster/gamer
Minuous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canberra/Australia
Posts: 1,764
This part doesn't seem right either:

"11. In or around 1997...Plaintiff was granted the worldwide, perpetual right and license: (a) to copy, distribute, market and sell the object code of all then-existing Amiga OS’s, including OS 0.7 through OS 3.1 (and including subsequent updates), in connection with Plaintiff’s emulation software and all “classic” AMIGA applications and games;"

Shouldn't they know which year this supposedly happened?! Also, IIRC the agreement was strictly related to emulation only. The concept of a "classic" Amiga did not even exist at the time. This sudden claim, which they apparently don't even have any paperwork for, that someone at Escom or Gateway sold practically all the rights to AmigaOS to Cloanto at some unknown point in the '90s is ludicrous. And again they make the claim that it is their emulator.

>for a measly 20.000 DM

Even less I'm afraid: "Cloanto granted to Amiga the right to include Cloanto’s Personal Paint software in Amiga’s upcoming OS 4 in satisfaction of the remainder of the Contract Payment."

Last edited by Minuous; 26 December 2017 at 13:11.
Minuous is offline  
Old 26 December 2017, 17:29   #28
number6
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
This part doesn't seem right either:

"11. In or around 1997...Plaintiff was granted the worldwide, perpetual right and license: (a) to copy, distribute, market and sell the object code of all then-existing Amiga OS’s, including OS 0.7 through OS 3.1 (and including subsequent updates), in connection with Plaintiff’s emulation software and all “classic” AMIGA applications and games;"

Shouldn't they know which year this supposedly happened?! Also, IIRC the agreement was strictly related to emulation only. The concept of a "classic" Amiga did not even exist at the time. This sudden claim, which they apparently don't even have any paperwork for, that someone at Escom or Gateway sold practically all the rights to AmigaOS to Cloanto at some unknown point in the '90s is ludicrous. And again they make the claim that it is their emulator.
I think a reread of the documents on freeamiga might help here, particularly the section on 1994-1998: From Commodore-Amiga to ESCOM to Gateway and the section on Cloanto.
https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/

One of the links:
[ Show youtube player ]

At about 48 minutes into the above presentation (english) Mike describes the intellectual property after defining patents, copyrights, and trademarks for the benefit of his audience. It's clear even in 2014 what he claims he owns, no?

#6
number6 is offline  
Old 26 December 2017, 20:05   #29
Minuous
Coder/webmaster/gamer
Minuous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canberra/Australia
Posts: 1,764
If there is some specific fact I am wrong about, feel free to correct me; I know you have been following the legal sagas closely. The way Cloanto have phrased things in their submission is ambiguous, perhaps deliberately so, and the agreement they claim to have signed in the 1990s, assuming it exists, does not seem to be available to the community (or even to the judge AFAICT), and is contrary to my (and presumably others) perception of the situation, so I am skeptical of their claims.

About the only relevant part about Cloanto in the 1990s that I saw in that document was: "In 1997 Cloanto published, with the blessing of Gateway, the first version of Amiga Forever, a legal and official Amiga emulation package." I don't think those facts are in dispute by anyone. And some mentions that they were cooperating with the Amino shysters in the following decade (a press release full of broken promises about PPaint, and an ad for Amiga Forever).

I'm afraid I'm on a metered connection and don't have the bandwidth currently to download long YouTube videos. But presumably it is just Cloanto making verbal claims and not actually showing any of the paperwork :-(

Last edited by Minuous; 26 December 2017 at 20:12.
Minuous is offline  
Old 27 December 2017, 16:19   #30
Rob1
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post

>for a measly 20.000 DM

Even less I'm afraid: "Cloanto granted to Amiga the right to include Cloanto’s Personal Paint software in Amiga’s upcoming OS 4 in satisfaction of the remainder of the Contract Payment."
In January 2004, in separate news releases, Cloanto announced that they would provide the Ppaint source code to both Amiga Inc and Genesi to make native versions for OS4 and MorphOS respectively.

https://www.amigaforever.com/news-ev...0040106-amiga/

http://anna.amigazeux.org/comments2....=news&number=8
 
Old 03 January 2018, 20:35   #31
kolla
Registered User
kolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
And again they make the claim that it is their emulator.
WinUAE started as a port of UAE by Brian King, Mathias Ortmann and Christian Buchner, who sometimes used email addresses with @cloanto in it. Cloanto supported and sponsored development of especially WinUAE, hosted many developer meetings etc, when they say "our" they mean the community which they actually are part of. If you have issues with this, I suggest you send your complaints to Toni.

https://web.archive.org/web/19990508...et.com:80/UAE/

A quote from the WinUAE homepage in 1999:
Quote:
Online donations are now possible! See the Donations link at left. Before donating, think about purchasing Amiga Forever instead, and helping a long-time Amiga software company (Cloanto).
Yeah, I guess those pesky good-for-nothing Cloanto people forced him to write that

Last edited by kolla; 03 January 2018 at 20:52.
kolla is offline  
Old 04 January 2018, 09:25   #32
Minuous
Coder/webmaster/gamer
Minuous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canberra/Australia
Posts: 1,764
>sometimes used email addresses with @cloanto in it.

So? If a programmer has a Gmail account does that give Google rights over all their programs!?

>when they say "our" they mean the community which they actually are part of.

No, they don't. They say "Plaintiff’s emulation software", the plaintiff being Cloanto Corporation.
Minuous is offline  
Old 16 March 2018, 15:21   #33
number6
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 18
@thread

New lawsuit filed

#6
number6 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who exactly owns Amiga now? Jonathan Drain Amiga scene 9 08 October 2012 23:49
Who owns a real Amiga ? Akira Retrogaming General Discussion 670 18 July 2012 01:01
Hyperion WIN - Control rights to AmigaOS DDNI News 73 17 December 2009 15:40
Who Owns The Rights To The Amiga? GoldenHeart Amiga scene 61 09 April 2009 12:04

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.07826 seconds with 15 queries