Final Fight Speculation

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

So are you actually making the game?

I'm doing another project, no porting:

http://www.generationamiga.com/2017/...ed-dwarf-star/

Like I said about rygar. If we want do an open project and use my current experience with my rygar version, and work together, I'm very willing to do so.

[TurboCrash]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

No, i’m asking if we want a port of a game that i guess was poorly done bitd.
Compared to other games is this the one the Amiga community really wants over other games that were neglected.

IMHO it's not worth the effort if your aim is to get it closer to the arcade. There are a ton of really bad ports and Double Dragon isn't that bad in comparison. I have a soft spot for DD's predecessor: Renegade, now that's a horrible conversion ! Splendid game on 8-bit systems and utter crap on the miggy.

[turrican3]

from my pov richard did a good work for the main characters and bad guys...
Where i see a problem it's graphically in the background.
The background are really ugly in some stages.
But i'm sure he did his best with the time and the support he had.


Do you think a 64 colours could have been achieved on the a500 1 mb chip ?

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by turrican3

from my pov richard did a good work for the main characters and bad guys...
Where i see a problem it's graphically in the background.
The background are really ugly in some stages.
But i'm sure he did his best with the time and the support he had.


Do you think a 64 colours could have been achieved on the a500 1 mb chip ?

Final Fight in 64 colors in out of question on A500 1Mb.

Final Fight Richard version's problem is the rubbish palette used.

[Orcish75]

Alpine9000 already coded Else we get mad.... so is the appetite really there for DD? Was the original port really that shite?

I for one would love to see a near perfect arcade conversion for an OCS/ECS machine.


Yup, the original port was pretty crap, animation had missing frames and the backgrounds weren't great. It was an OK effort, I guess, certainly not as bad as something like Ghouls 'n Ghosts.

[Hewitson]

Double Dragon is pretty shite. It's about as bad as Final Fight in my opinion.

[sokolovic]

Maybe this question have been answered but I always wondered (and apologies if this is a silly question. I'm not a specialist of the subject)

It thought that one of the main advantage of the consoles was that they can rely on their rom cartridge to bypass their RAM limitation, something the floppies based Amiga couldn't do, having to put all the game assets on the RAM from the floppies.

But with the Mega CD there isn't any cartdridge, just a 1X CD-ROM and 512ko of RAM (VS 2XCD Rom and 2Mb chipram for the CD32).

So how do they did they managed to have a decent Final Fight ? How does the hardware access to the graphics since there isn't any rom ? I would have thought that it had to use the ram to stock them, exactly like a floppy based machine.

If you consider that the Amiga version of FF run with 512ko and 68000/7Mhz, you could imagine that with 2mb of ram, 68020/14Mhz, 2X CD-ROM and some chipset trickery using the copper and the blitter, it could have been possible to make a game at least on par with the MCD version, using slightly better palette than the original Amiga one.

[dlfrsilver]

the Random Access loading routine called DLS "Dynamic Loading system" allowed to run games in only 512kb of ram, thanks to the ability to load the graphic parts dynamically in ram. Saint dragon was virtually equal to the coin-op !

[sokolovic]

But this is for the Amiga I guess, since there isn't any Mega CD version of Saint Dragon

How does the Mega CD managed to stock the graphics assets of Final Fight with only 512kb of RAM ?

I suppose it was also dinamically loaded in some way since I always thought that the RAM was the main limitation of converting arcade games with huge amount of graphics data on the Amiga because there wasn't any ROM cartridge to stock and access to them directly.

I'd like to understand how this problem was bypassed by the Mega CD without any cartridge and why the CD32 couldn't bypass the RAM limitation in some way like the Mega CD managed to do.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

How does the Mega CD managed to get the graphics assets of Final Fight with only 512kb of RAM ?

It has more than 512kB of RAM (512kB main ram and 256kB VRAM + the 64kB available on the Megadrive itself).

Being able to flip, rotate and scale sprites and tiles helps a lot, as you don't need to have nearly as much gfx stored in RAM.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by britelite

It has more than 512kB of RAM (512kB main ram and 256kB VRAM + the 64kB available on the Megadrive itself).

Being able to flip, rotate and scale sprites and tiles helps a lot, as you don't need to have nearly as much gfx stored in RAM.

Still this is less than 1mb when the CD32 have 2mb, faster CPU with a bit more mhz, and the blitter / copper that can also be useful.

Or maybe the MCD can use also the CPU of the Megadrive, in that case, it can use 2x68000 CPUs at 7,5 and 12,5Mhz, giving him some advantage on the only 680EC20/14Mhz of the CD32 ?

(thanks for the answers anyway.)

[britelite]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Still this is less than 1mb when the CD32 have 2mb, faster CPU with a bit more mhz, and the blitter / copper that can also be useful.

Is there actually a Final Fight for the CD32? Because unless there is, it's a bit silly to speculate why it can't be done on the CD32 compared to the Mega CD.

[Samurai_Crow]

I have the U.S. Gold version. It runs on a single floppy drive on 512k systems. If it had 2 megs standard it would have been a much better game.

[touko]

Originally Posted by britelite

Is there actually a Final Fight for the CD32? Because unless there is, it's a bit silly to speculate why it can't be done on the CD32 compared to the Mega CD.

Not CD32, bug amiga AGA(demo/POC):
[ Show youtube player ]

Since the Mega CD haven't any cartridge but a CD Drive and not very much RAM, how is it possible for it to don't have the same limitations ?

The MEGA CD has the MCD RAM(the audio has his own RAM)+the MD ones, and like britelite said, a tiles based display is less RAM consuming than a bitmap one .

Here are the mega cd memory specs :

Memory
System RAM: 856 KB[5]
Main RAM: 4 Mbit (512 KB)
VRAM: 2 Mbit (256 KB)
PCM audio samples: 512 Kbit (64 KB)
CD-ROM data cache: 128 Kbit (16 KB)
Internal Backup RAM: 64 Kbit (8 KB)
System Boot ROM: 1 Mbit (128 KB)
External Memory Card: 1 Mbit (128 KB) CD BackUp RAM Cart
System RAM bandwidth: 62.5 MB/sec (3 buses, 56-bit bus width)[5]
Main RAM: 25 MB/sec (16-bit, 12.5 MHz, FPM DRAM)[6]
VRAM: 25 MB/sec (32-bit, 6.25 MHz, PSRAM)[7]
Audio RAM: 12.5 MB/sec (8-bit, 12.5 MHz, SRAM)[8]

https://segaretro.org/Sega_Mega-CD/T...specifications

VRAM is not VRAM like it seems to be(it's not accessible by the Md's VDP), but only the same king of VRAM than the MD one (aka psram).

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by britelite

Is there actually a Final Fight for the CD32? Because unless there is, it's a bit silly to speculate why it can't be done on the CD32 compared to the Mega CD.

No of course not. But my question was initially about the RAM limitations of the Mega CD, taking FF CD as an example of game that seems to have big amounts of GFX data and no cartdridge to access it.

I had always read that the RAM limitation was the main limit of the arcade games adaptations on the Amiga because games like FF, SF2, SSF2, MK, Primal Rage where forced to put their huge amount of GFX, Sounds and code into the RAM available (512kb, 1mb or 2mb depending of the game) while consoles versions had a ROM cartridge to stock all the datas.

Since the Mega CD haven't any cartridge but a CD Drive and not very much RAM, how is it possible for it to don't have the same limitations ?

Originally Posted by touko

The MEGA CD has the MCD RAM(the audio has his own RAM)+the MD ones, and like britelite said, a tiles based display is less RAM consuming than a bitmap one .

Thanks / Merci.

[touko]

de rien ,en plus marseillais

How does the Mega CD managed to stock the graphics assets of Final Fight with only 512kb of RAM ?
I suppose it was also dinamically loaded in some way since I always thought that the RAM was the main limitation of converting arcade games with huge amount of graphics data on the Amiga because there wasn't any ROM cartridge to stock and access to them directly.

I think you cannot do that when a red book audio is in progress,and all the musics in this version are red book .

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by touko

Not CD32, bug amiga AGA(demo/POC):
[ Show youtube player ]

...and where can one find that version with the Sodom fight???

I have all these but it's not in there

Originally Posted by DamienD

Just tested all versions and this is the status of being able to pick up the pipe:

FFAGA Alpha v1.5           yes
FFAGA Alpha v1.7           no
FFAGA Alpha v1.8           yes
FFAGA Alpha v1.8 - Guy     no
FFECS                      no

[touko]

and where can one find that version with the Sodum fight???

Sorry, i don't know, may be this was an updated version but not publicly available .

EDIT: it seems that this version is not the one developped by the original coder (Leathered) which is dead (if i understand correctly), this why IMO, this version is not available .

[DamienD]

Per-Ola Eriksson must have this as he played / made the video... if only I knew what his EAB member name was then I'd ask him

There's a thread on EAB where we were trying to source all known versions: Final Fight AGA

Details of each version is here...

Edit: don't worry, seems my memory is rubbish and I've answered my own question by reading my old post...

Originally Posted by DamienD

FFAGA Alpha v1.5:
- Hagar only.
- Music (not from the arcade version though) / Sound FX.
- Can pick up the pipe.
- After the first stage you get to fight Sodom in the arena and then the game ends.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by touko

EDIT: it seems that this version is not the one developped by the original coder (Leathered) which is dead (if i understand correctly), this why IMO, this version is not available .

No, this version is definitely by leathered

Unfortunately Paul passed away at too young an age