[Joystick USB] Speed-Link 'Competition Pro' issue

mazxim · 06 June 2010, 19:07

Hi there..
I have a couple of these USB joystick lacking around my desktop.
The problem is well-known as an "unresponsiveness", the lag between a move or a button press and it's effective execution on video (estimated in about 100 ms, referring to other threads on this board)
I have already poke a user on this forum that claimed, sometime ago, to willing to fix the problem through some kind of hardware surgery, but he didn't respond me yet after a week. Does anyone have looked for this issue and eventually found a solution?
I would really appreciate any suggestions. Bye!

Retro-Nerd · 06 June 2010, 19:12

I found this USB solution, but there are more (and probably more expensive).

http://www.retro-donald.de/pages/usb...ickadapter.php

mazxim · 06 June 2010, 20:40

.mmm, interesting stuff :-)
But I was referring to such a solution to use the USB ones I already have - something to fix it - as far as apparently it is an hardware problem.

Retro-Nerd · 06 June 2010, 20:43

It's probably a CP firmware problem, 100ms response time is awfully slow. Prowler worked on a fix, iirc.

prowler · 06 June 2010, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazxim

I have already poke a user on this forum that claimed, sometime ago, to willing to fix the problem through some kind of hardware surgery, but he didn't respond me yet after a week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Prowler worked on a fix, iirc.

Yes, it was me that received a PM from mazxim asking about my progress in finding a fix for this problem.

In particular, he was asking about the possibility of transplanting parts from a cheap USB joypad into the CP stick, and of course this would work and give a quick result, but would appear to behave like a multi-button stick with all but one button disabled.

If that is acceptable to you then you should do just that, but I was looking for something more elegant.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to spare the time to continue with this as I have become involved in other, more pressing, projects, and that is why I have not replied to your message yet, mazxim, sorry.

Retro-Nerd · 06 June 2010, 21:21

I guess a new USB adapter would be indeed a more elegant solution. You can use any Commodore/Atari style 9-pin stick/pad with it. Worth every penny.

mazxim · 07 June 2010, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Unfortunately, I have not been able to spare the time to continue with this as I have become involved in other, more pressing, projects, and that is why I have not replied to your message yet, mazxim, sorry.

No problem prowler, it was primarily just to known. I opened already a cheap joypad to compare the differences with the CP, which appear very compact and simple in it's electronic side (everything seems to be integrated on a single base, binded with the autofire switch) while the joypad have a larger circuit that can't fit, somehow uncutted, into the CP plastic.
Unfortunally I'm not into electronic stuff, so it was just curiosity and an attempt to understand something through a quick comparison

Quote:

Originally Posted by retro-nerd

I guess a new USB adapter would be indeed a more elegant solution.

The adapter you linked me it is indeed very nice, along with it's open-source driver to be compiled. I didn't understand if the guy actuallly sell the adapter and eventually how much it would cost, but.. we must, sooner or later, resolve the issue of the usb ones.. come on experts, what do you need? I have one of mine to sacrifice to the cause if any expert out there guess to know what to do.
Thanks to both for reply!

s2325 · 07 June 2010, 13:12

I never noticed lag with Windows 98 SE and XP but maybe it's easy to spot in "decathlon style" game.

Retro-Nerd · 07 June 2010, 16:37

Quote:

and eventually how much it would cost

assembly kit: 12,50€+shipping.
ready-made: 18,00€+shipping.

SunChild · 24 January 2011, 19:09

Price got a bit down to 15€ nowadays.

Looks worth it. Especially compared with the CPro USB solution: no lag issue here (if their claim is true) + you can actually plug 2 sticks for the same price!! (On the other hand, one attractive feature to me with the Competition Pro USB reissue is the fact you get 4 _distinct_ buttons you can set functions to in WinUAE, MAME, etc. A feature you won't have with most vintage sticks I'm afraid...)

Also worth it compared with the Retro-Adapter, sold for more than 2 times this price (actually more like 3x, for the possibility to connect 2 joysticks at once requires you to buy an additional connector!!).

Anybody bought this and can give a test review here?

Retro-Nerd · 24 January 2011, 20:04

Not much to say. Retro-Donald's adapter works as expected, and supports any 9-pin Atari style joystick or pad with 1-2 buttons. Works greats in emulators like WinUAE or WinVice. Don't forget to order the nice metal case too.

http://www.retro-donald.de/shop/page...gehaeuse-3.php

SunChild · 25 January 2011, 13:21

Hey Retro-Nerd!
Good to see you replying here... I just happen to recently read a shitload of EAB threads on the matter, and was actually thinking about PMing you to ask a few things (after I came across various interesting comments of yours), namely:

1- I think you mentioned before having ordered (or at least actually tried) both the reissue of the Competition Pro USB and the reissue in DB9 for Amiga, and you stated the DB9 version is of much better quality, am I correct? Now could you tell me wether this DB9 reissue actually has the 4 _separate_ buttons like the USB has? 4 buttons, each of whci you can map a specific function to, would definitely come in handy both for WinUAE & MAME (and prolly other emulators/games)!!!

2- "Retro-Donald's adapter [...] supports any 9-pin Atari style joystick or pad with 1-2 buttons"
Dyou mean to say joysticks with 2 (once again: separate!) buttons are supported by Retro-Donald adapter?

3- Although no-one prolly has tested this yet, do you reckon using 2 of these adapters _at once_ would work? That is, effectly using 4 DB9 joysticks as input in WinUAE? (Dynablaster multi-player fights anyone? ^^)

Retro-Nerd · 25 January 2011, 17:54

1. The DB9 Competition Pro remake was made for real computers, so it has only 1 button.

2. Yep, joysticks/pads with two separate buttons works fine with this adapter.

3. I don't have a second adapter, but i assume it should work. You could also ask Donald.

dirkies · 25 January 2011, 20:07

I ordered yesterday such a Donald USB DB9 adapter, let's see how it behaves once I got it

SunChild · 26 January 2011, 02:42

Thank you for the reply Retro-Nerd! Given I already have more than my share of perfect (suiting my taste that is) digital micro-switched vintage sticks (ie. 2 Konix Navigators + 1 QuickJoy TopStar SV-127 + 2 Suzo Arcade Turbo expected to be delivered from Holland in the coming days

), I'm prolly gonna take my chances with the latest Competition Pro USB anyway, in spite of the lag problem and cheaper quality, since the only feature I'm still missing is multi-buttons to map actions to in emulators.
One thing about what you said though:

Quote:

The DB9 Competition Pro remake was made for real computers, so it has only 1 button.

I hear you, yet I thought there WAS joysticks back in the Days (yes, capital "D", thank you very much!

) featuring 2 separate buttons, as well as games on the Amiga (although admitedly rather few I guess) that recognized and took advantage of them... Am I mistaken here?

Hey Dirkies, way to go!

Looking forward to read your personal review for this stuff! Although it seems pretty clear to me already this is so far the ultimate/best choice in the matter: circumvents the lag-issue of USB Competition Pro, comes with two DE9 ports (only such adapter featuring this in standard), and all this CHEAPEST of all (at the very least 50% less than even the cheapest among any other such adapter available out there! Compare with Stelladaptor, Retro-Adapter, whatever...).
I'm quite likely to buy one pretty soon myself -- more likely two actually (once I get confirmation from Retro-Donald that 2 of these can indeed be used simultaneously, including under emulation of course).

Note for those who wanna go vintage Atari 2600-type stick all the way back:
stumble upon this on a site ad today (oddly enough while looking for sth totally unrelated, except for the /vintage comp/ part -- MSSIAH for C64).
Thought it might just interest somebody in these parts -- certainly not me though!

Hopefully the responsiveness is devoid of any lag unlike SpeedLink's Com Pro USB, + I must admit that I kinda dig the whole /see-through LED light/ thing here which, while nothing but complete show off, makes for a neat twist on the pretty dull original design... But anything without micro-switches is a personal "no-go" AFAI'm concerned! Still, would prolly have considered buying this just for the looks of it, weren't it for the arguably ridiculously expensive price.
Yet if you're richer than I am (and like your joystick experience real vintage and mushy feeling

), well then this re-release in USB format might just prove the perfect choice!
Also of note about the item:

Quote:

the USB controller board can be removed from the case and used as a standalone control interface for a MAME arcade cabinet or homebuilt game controller. The board even includes labeled solder points to connect an arcade joystick (4 or 8 way) and up to 2 additional controls.

Retro-Nerd · 26 January 2011, 03:13

Quote:

I hear you, yet I thought there WAS joysticks back in the Days (yes, capital "D", thank you very much!

) featuring 2 separate buttons, as well as games on the Amiga (although admitedly rather few I guess) that recognized and took advantage of them... Am I mistaken here?

No, you are right. Of course there were Amiga joysticks with two separate buttons. My point was: The CP always had 1 button, so it's a 1:1 replica of this stick. To be honest: this CP USB version with 4 buttons isn't really comfortable like other sticks or pads with 2-x buttons. It was really designed for 1-button play only.

SunChild · 26 January 2011, 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

No, you are right. Of course there were Amiga joysticks with two separate buttons. My point was: The CP always had 1 button, so it's a 1:1 replica of this stick.

Got it!

Although not completely sure about the 1:1 replica part, given this CP does have 4 buttons, regardless of them all being the same one contact-wise (at least all the pics of it on Vesalia/AmigaKit features a 4-buttons black model of this DB9 reissue), while none of the original versions (classic, deluxe, 5000, Suzo version, etc.) had more than the big two in front IIRC, right? Might be wrong here, but I kinda understood the 2 extra smaller ones were a non-canon addition to the original design on the part of SpeedLink... Hence my thinking they came as actual different ones each, like for the USB version.

Quote:

To be honest: this CP USB version with 4 buttons isn't really comfortable like other sticks or pads with 2-x buttons. It was really designed for 1-button play only.

Yeah I guess... What with them being located on the front instead of sideway, uh. But do you know of any good digital micro-switched USB joystick with 2 (or more) separate buttons? I don't...
Oh, and of course I absolutely _loathe_ playing with pads so that's not an option!! At least when it comes to computer/Arcade games. Pads are for total sissies if you ask me (sorry if you love them yourself, ha ha!).

A little trick though, if you haven't thought about it yet (shame on you then, as it's pretty obvious!

): I figure you could just remap the joystick directions in WinUAE (or whatever other emulator you might use the stick with) sth like: Right=Up/Up=Left/Left=Down/Down=Right (if you're right-handed like I am), that way you may use your CP USB with the 4 buttons sideways and better take advantage of them...

Retro-Nerd · 26 January 2011, 04:13

No, this 2 small triangle shaped buttons weren't designed for the Speedlink USB version. Some later CP DB9 sticks had them too. Pretty pointless in most cases if you ask me. The position isn't really suitable for e.g intense action games.

Quote:

regardless of them all being the same one contact-wise

Yep, that's what i've meant.

http://www.thosewerethedays.de/joystick_galerie.htm

http://www.cbmhardware.de/joystick/index.php

SunChild · 26 January 2011, 04:21

Alright my bad then, had not seen those vintage models yet...

dirkies · 27 January 2011, 16:59

will do a minireview of the USB dongle once I got it, have still 2 competition pro sticks to test with!
Will test with MAME, Winvice and WinUAE if I get the latter installed ok (never really used winUAE, still prefer my real Amiga 5000 & 4000 hardware!)

06 June 2010, 19:07	#1
mazxim Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Italy Posts: 55	[Joystick USB] Speed-Link 'Competition Pro' issue Hi there.. I have a couple of these USB joystick lacking around my desktop. The problem is well-known as an "unresponsiveness", the lag between a move or a button press and it's effective execution on video (estimated in about 100 ms, referring to other threads on this board) I have already poke a user on this forum that claimed, sometime ago, to willing to fix the problem through some kind of hardware surgery, but he didn't respond me yet after a week. Does anyone have looked for this issue and eventually found a solution? I would really appreciate any suggestions. Bye!

24 January 2011, 19:09	#10
SunChild EAB Noobie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Natori-shi, JAPAN Age: 49 Posts: 133	Price got a bit down to 15€ nowadays. Looks worth it. Especially compared with the CPro USB solution: no lag issue here (if their claim is true) + you can actually plug 2 sticks for the same price!! (On the other hand, one attractive feature to me with the Competition Pro USB reissue is the fact you get 4 _distinct_ buttons you can set functions to in WinUAE, MAME, etc. A feature you won't have with most vintage sticks I'm afraid...) Also worth it compared with the Retro-Adapter, sold for more than 2 times this price (actually more like 3x, for the possibility to connect 2 joysticks at once requires you to buy an additional connector!!). Anybody bought this and can give a test review here? Last edited by SunChild; 24 January 2011 at 19:16.

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06 June 2010, 19:12	#2
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	I found this USB solution, but there are more (and probably more expensive). http://www.retro-donald.de/pages/usb...ickadapter.php

06 June 2010, 20:40	#3
mazxim Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Italy Posts: 55	.mmm, interesting stuff :-) But I was referring to such a solution to use the USB ones I already have - something to fix it - as far as apparently it is an hardware problem.

06 June 2010, 20:43	#4
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	It's probably a CP firmware problem, 100ms response time is awfully slow. Prowler worked on a fix, iirc.

06 June 2010, 21:21	#6
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	I guess a new USB adapter would be indeed a more elegant solution. You can use any Commodore/Atari style 9-pin stick/pad with it. Worth every penny.

07 June 2010, 13:12	#8
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	I never noticed lag with Windows 98 SE and XP but maybe it's easy to spot in "decathlon style" game.

24 January 2011, 20:04	#11
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	Not much to say. Retro-Donald's adapter works as expected, and supports any 9-pin Atari style joystick or pad with 1-2 buttons. Works greats in emulators like WinUAE or WinVice. Don't forget to order the nice metal case too. http://www.retro-donald.de/shop/page...gehaeuse-3.php

25 January 2011, 13:21	#12
SunChild EAB Noobie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Natori-shi, JAPAN Age: 49 Posts: 133	Hey Retro-Nerd! Good to see you replying here... I just happen to recently read a shitload of EAB threads on the matter, and was actually thinking about PMing you to ask a few things (after I came across various interesting comments of yours), namely: 1- I think you mentioned before having ordered (or at least actually tried) both the reissue of the Competition Pro USB and the reissue in DB9 for Amiga, and you stated the DB9 version is of much better quality, am I correct? Now could you tell me wether this DB9 reissue actually has the 4 _separate_ buttons like the USB has? 4 buttons, each of whci you can map a specific function to, would definitely come in handy both for WinUAE & MAME (and prolly other emulators/games)!!! 2- "Retro-Donald's adapter [...] supports any 9-pin Atari style joystick or pad with 1-2 buttons" Dyou mean to say joysticks with 2 (once again: separate!) buttons are supported by Retro-Donald adapter? 3- Although no-one prolly has tested this yet, do you reckon using 2 of these adapters _at once_ would work? That is, effectly using 4 DB9 joysticks as input in WinUAE? (Dynablaster multi-player fights anyone? ^^)

25 January 2011, 17:54	#13
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	1. The DB9 Competition Pro remake was made for real computers, so it has only 1 button. 2. Yep, joysticks/pads with two separate buttons works fine with this adapter. 3. I don't have a second adapter, but i assume it should work. You could also ask Donald.

25 January 2011, 20:07	#14
dirkies Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Belgium Age: 51 Posts: 1,296	I ordered yesterday such a Donald USB DB9 adapter, let's see how it behaves once I got it

26 January 2011, 04:21	#19
SunChild EAB Noobie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Natori-shi, JAPAN Age: 49 Posts: 133	Alright my bad then, had not seen those vintage models yet...

27 January 2011, 16:59	#20
dirkies Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Belgium Age: 51 Posts: 1,296	will do a minireview of the USB dongle once I got it, have still 2 competition pro sticks to test with! Will test with MAME, Winvice and WinUAE if I get the latter installed ok (never really used winUAE, still prefer my real Amiga 5000 & 4000 hardware!)

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