custom dungeon for dungeon master 1 - Page 2

alexh · 04 February 2009, 23:55

I dunno if I like this custom dungeon.

I was somehow able to navigate round the hall of champions resurrecting my party whilst avoiding enemies and pits.

I got the best 4 characters :

Halk
Tiggy
Stamm
Morpus

And even with Tiggy able to do level 1 fireballs I was unable to survive very long.

It wasnt really very much fun, you get cornered very easily... If you fall down the pits to the next level it's even harder... what is the goal on the first level? Is there a safe place to hangout and train up? You cannot kill all the enemies one by one cos you're not strong enough.

I've only played it on WinUAE but it takes too long to load.... WAY too long

Angus · 05 February 2009, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I dunno if I like this custom dungeon.

And even with Tiggy able to do level 1 fireballs I was unable to survive very long.

I wasn't able to get these characters, but with care you can tempt the stone golem though his door, dodge past him and use that corridor as a place to hole up, and when the critters down, ideally utilising a bit of "gate slamming" as well.

alexh · 05 February 2009, 14:02

Might be worth a go tonight... The Stone Golem corridor is next to Halk?

Angus · 05 February 2009, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Might be worth a go tonight... The Stone Golem corridor is next to Halk?

I think so... I have an idea its somewhere off to the right as you enter the hall. Bit fuzzy about it I'm afraid.

alexh · 05 February 2009, 21:50

I've decided not to play again. It's not fun at all.

meynaf · 06 February 2009, 12:54

Ok guys, I'm back.

I agree with gimbal : DM is not really fair, as it contains numerous monster generators and you can never get rid of them. So in many places you can end up with monsters in your back, whatever efforts you put in cleaning the place up.
While it's right it won't happen at the very beginning, it happens as soon as level 4.
But in my dungeon there are no permanent, in-your-back, monster generators. At least

@skan :

I wasn't really offended, but I needed precisions.
I agree with the unfair - and this is perfectly intentional from me - but not with the unplayable. Some people found CSB quite unplayable, too, but it was just too difficult for them (I can't say I'm a hardcore player but I finished
it with reincarnated characters). And remember that this particular dungeon is meant for people who found CSB too easy.

@alexh :

Quote:

You cannot kill all the enemies one by one coz you're not strong enough.

And you're not supposed to do that...

What's the goal on the first level ? Flee ! (that is, find an exit as quickly as possible and only fight when you can't do otherwise) Is there a safe place to handout and train up ? Of course ! In fact there are several, and you got pretty close to at least one of them.

If you were able to navigate round the hall of champions whilst avoiding enemies and pits, then I can say that's exactly the way of doing in here.
So why not attempting to do the same on the next level ? Perhaps you could find a door or something. And if you find the door, a very useful object lies nearby.

Btw I don't agree for who are the best characters but this is another story

About UAE : try activating the JIT. Also, if it's possible then disable entirely the joypad emulation via keyboard. The game uses keys like that : 7 turn left, 8 forward, 9 turn right, 4 left, 5 backward, 6 right. Without keyboard then the game is probably completely unplayable.

Quote:

I've decided not to play again. It's not fun at all.

And that's a shame, because you were the one who got the farthest !

@Angus :

The original DM game is very slow at loading, because it loads everything when there is enough memory and it's stupid compiled code.
Here the dynamic ST screen format conversion (35% cpu use on 030) makes things even worse. Known thing, sorry for that.

About the pointer in the renaming window : known, too but it's an original prb from FTL, not mine

Again, the fact you need to quit before trying again is annoying but comes from the original game (was corrected in later versions such as DM Amiga 3.6).
But you can, if you always plan on getting the same characters, save right after you've got the first one. Monsters will not attack you until you move.

You're not supposed to dent skeletons right now : even if they die easily with a level 4 fireball you just can't do that.
Perhaps you should leave them alone and find another place.

@all
Here are a few hints - now I know what you need :
. poison spells cost less than fireballs and are more efficient on wasps,
. a small button on the floor can help with your pursuers,
. the stone golem is just here to tell you that you ought to get elsewhere. Don't bother with him.
. don't reincarnate your characters until you know a safe place where to train.

About EPT, I didn't like elite itself so maybe I'm not the right one to do a port of a similar game...

alexh · 06 February 2009, 14:42

There are some crazy traps that you just cannot figure out without dying at least once... not fun

Like the blue button on the wall at the end of the a long corridor with two fireballs suspended either side and some cheesy joke about staying alive or something written on the wall.

Thorham · 08 February 2009, 16:00

Meynaf, I've figured out how to play it, and I must say that this dungeon simply pawns teh p00r player, making even the die hards n00bs again, love it

All this time I was stuck trying to figure out how to get past the gate in the hall of champions

Finally made a little progress, and got to the part where you're warned not to take the key if you're not a mage. I did, and of course got my ass kicked, again

There is one thing I don't like, and it's the combination of monster spamming in the hall of champions and the fact that the champions are too scattered. Fix that, and this dungeon could be a winner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Like the blue button on the wall at the end of the a long corridor with two fireballs suspended either side and some cheesy joke about staying alive or something written on the wall.

There are ways to survive fireballs

alexh · 08 February 2009, 19:10

Yeah but you have to die to get a feeling of what is going to happen..

Any RPG game that you have to die to work out what to do is IMO crap.

meynaf · 09 February 2009, 16:30

Sorry for you alexh, but as the wall message says this is a survival test, which means you can be killed if you try it.
You must return here later if you're not strong enough to pass it. If you were strong enough to survive, then you'd discover that an exit opens.
The wall text is there to warn you about a danger, not to mock.

Absolutely no trap is deadly just to be deadly, they all have to be passed in some way (certainly after some training).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorham

There is one thing I don't like, and it's the combination of monster spamming in the hall of champions and the fact that the champions are too scattered. Fix that, and this dungeon could be a winner.

But how to fix that ?
Add more champions to make them less scattered ? (perfectly possible)
Make the place less dangerous ? (that would be betraying its spirit, though)

Feel free to make me any suggestion of what (precisely) to change ; you might have some ideas I could not think of.

If some areas are just too hard, perhaps some hints in the readme (or with ingame scrolls) can help. You can suggest them !

Also, if anyone here can think about good puzzles (which either need lots of thinking or are dangerous, or both), then new ideas are welcome.

alexh · 09 February 2009, 17:13

It would be much better if you could choose all 4 of your party before any doors / traps were opened.

Trying to get my preferred party (Stamm, Halk, Tiggy and Morpus) is insanely difficult. Half of the available characters are effectively "cut off" once you choose your first character because it activates monster spawning and traps.

Thorham · 09 February 2009, 18:12

The problem is what alexh said, it's just too difficult to assemble your party. It would be much better if the Hall of Champions was safe like in the original dungeon. The rest of the dungeon can than be as easy or difficult as you want. This way, players aren't discouraged by the difficult party assembling process and can concentrate their efforts on the meat of the game, how ever difficult it may be.

Fix this, and you'll get rid of this dungeons only problem.

meynaf · 11 February 2009, 13:49

I see. I'll think about that.

However, I prefer to wait until a big part of the dungeon (at least the surrounding areas) is tested before I change anything in this place. So I'm afraid that, for now, you'll have to take other characters

Angus · 11 February 2009, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

I see. I'll think about that.

However, I prefer to wait until a big part of the dungeon (at least the surrounding areas) is tested before I change anything in this place. So I'm afraid that, for now, you'll have to take other characters

Not a criticism, I have huge respect for what you have achieved, but for me, the difficulty level makes it prohibitive.

But darned good work nevertheless.

meynaf · 12 February 2009, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus

Not a criticism, I have huge respect for what you have achieved, but for me, the difficulty level makes it prohibitive.

But darned good work nevertheless.

It is designed for the hardcore, not the casual, player.
So, of course, it can be prohibitive for many people.
I'm sorry for those, but I won't change that. Perhaps one day I'll make another, "easy" dungeon.

skan · 16 February 2009, 13:03

Ok, here I am. As promised I had another try (I just couldn't stand that bitter feeling of being a DM n00b again, I just HAD to try again! ;D).

I've gone down to level 2, crossed a wooden door, wandered here and there, been in the Graveyard, got some VI potions and I'm trying to kill some giant mice atm (but they keep on killing me instead...)

Let's see where I can go from here.

meynaf · 19 February 2009, 19:25

You seem to be a very good player

Could you please give me more details of what happened to you when you were wandering here and there ?

Btw I hope you liked my way of treasure huntin' (if you got the potions you know what I mean).

Hint : perhaps you can pass the mice without killing them, as the wall message suggests...

skan · 19 February 2009, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

You seem to be a very good player

Naaaah! Thx anyway!

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

Could you please give me more details of what happened to you when you were wandering here and there ?

Mhmh...can't remember everything...I was playing along with a friend and the good old "You drive, I shoot" DM pattern

and we exchanged seats every now and then!

I reached and passed the Endless Stairs at some point...I tried the Drowning too, but couldn't survive very long!

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

Btw I hope you liked my way of treasure huntin' (if you got the potions you know what I mean).

Do you mean the silver coins? Hehe, nice trick, but nothing can stop a dungeon veteran!

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

Hint : perhaps you can pass the mice without killing them, as the wall message suggests...

Thx!!! Gonna try it ASAP!

meynaf · 05 March 2009, 08:52

Now I don't know where the players are and if they didn't give up, but there's a new release (same url you got it at first, see on top of this thread).

Two more levels, some changes on monsters, a few bug fixes (maybe more bugs added too

).

The readme has also been updated.

People here have asked me to make the hall of champions a safe place. But I probably won't change this, unless someone finds a good answer to my question : why shouldn't this be part of the challenge ? IMO it adds some strategic thought to be done when choosing characters, and it's not a worse obligation than the challenge of playing DM2 with Torham alone without any ninja level

As skan has bypassed the champions area, it's perfectly possible (btw where are you now ?).

meynaf · 12 April 2009, 13:38

Hello, anybody there ???
(Or did all guys who tried it die in the dungeon ?)

04 February 2009, 23:55	#21
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,391	I dunno if I like this custom dungeon. I was somehow able to navigate round the hall of champions resurrecting my party whilst avoiding enemies and pits. I got the best 4 characters : Halk Tiggy Stamm Morpus And even with Tiggy able to do level 1 fireballs I was unable to survive very long. It wasnt really very much fun, you get cornered very easily... If you fall down the pits to the next level it's even harder... what is the goal on the first level? Is there a safe place to hangout and train up? You cannot kill all the enemies one by one cos you're not strong enough. I've only played it on WinUAE but it takes too long to load.... WAY too long Last edited by alexh; 05 February 2009 at 00:31.

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05 February 2009, 14:02	#23
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,391	Might be worth a go tonight... The Stone Golem corridor is next to Halk?

05 February 2009, 21:50	#25
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,391	I've decided not to play again. It's not fun at all.

06 February 2009, 14:42	#27
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,391	There are some crazy traps that you just cannot figure out without dying at least once... not fun Like the blue button on the wall at the end of the a long corridor with two fireballs suspended either side and some cheesy joke about staying alive or something written on the wall.

08 February 2009, 19:10	#29
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,391	Yeah but you have to die to get a feeling of what is going to happen.. Any RPG game that you have to die to work out what to do is IMO crap.

09 February 2009, 17:13	#31
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,391	It would be much better if you could choose all 4 of your party before any doors / traps were opened. Trying to get my preferred party (Stamm, Halk, Tiggy and Morpus) is insanely difficult. Half of the available characters are effectively "cut off" once you choose your first character because it activates monster spawning and traps.

09 February 2009, 18:12	#32
Thorham Computer Nerd Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Rotterdam/Netherlands Age: 47 Posts: 3,796	The problem is what alexh said, it's just too difficult to assemble your party. It would be much better if the Hall of Champions was safe like in the original dungeon. The rest of the dungeon can than be as easy or difficult as you want. This way, players aren't discouraged by the difficult party assembling process and can concentrate their efforts on the meat of the game, how ever difficult it may be. Fix this, and you'll get rid of this dungeons only problem.

11 February 2009, 13:49	#33
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,335	I see. I'll think about that. However, I prefer to wait until a big part of the dungeon (at least the surrounding areas) is tested before I change anything in this place. So I'm afraid that, for now, you'll have to take other characters

16 February 2009, 13:03	#36
skan Dream Merchant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dreamlands Posts: 530	Ok, here I am. As promised I had another try (I just couldn't stand that bitter feeling of being a DM n00b again, I just HAD to try again! ;D). I've gone down to level 2, crossed a wooden door, wandered here and there, been in the Graveyard, got some VI potions and I'm trying to kill some giant mice atm (but they keep on killing me instead...) Let's see where I can go from here.

19 February 2009, 19:25	#37
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,335	You seem to be a very good player Could you please give me more details of what happened to you when you were wandering here and there ? Btw I hope you liked my way of treasure huntin' (if you got the potions you know what I mean). Hint : perhaps you can pass the mice without killing them, as the wall message suggests...

05 March 2009, 08:52	#39
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,335	Now I don't know where the players are and if they didn't give up, but there's a new release (same url you got it at first, see on top of this thread). Two more levels, some changes on monsters, a few bug fixes (maybe more bugs added too ). The readme has also been updated. People here have asked me to make the hall of champions a safe place. But I probably won't change this, unless someone finds a good answer to my question : why shouldn't this be part of the challenge ? IMO it adds some strategic thought to be done when choosing characters, and it's not a worse obligation than the challenge of playing DM2 with Torham alone without any ninja level As skan has bypassed the champions area, it's perfectly possible (btw where are you now ?).

12 April 2009, 13:38	#40
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,335	Hello, anybody there ??? (Or did all guys who tried it die in the dungeon ?)

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