DMS vs. ADF - Page 2

Twistin'Ghost · 16 October 2001, 09:07

Well DMS 2.20r was actually The Loons 100% release (at least my version is...) of the ParCon version, only with improvements and fixes.

Was there any other disk besides Superfrog disk 3 that DMS would not work on?

On the other end of the spectrum, as you pointed out in different words, by having everything archived as ADF's, if you want the trained versions or other patches, you need an entirely separate ADF image just to accommodate a few meager tracks. And with the use of my old Warp and DMS (which are considered too old-school for some people), I am at least able to play "Dragon's Breath"! Everyone's adf's of that game are worthless, so I am far from ready to retire them.

CodyJarrett · 16 October 2001, 09:30

For Dragon's Breath surely it doesn't matter whether you are using DMS or ADF? Both will need the image to be written to a disk on a real Amiga and then have the warp patch applied.

I thought that Dragon's Breath doesn't work because there is some protection which can't be imaged on either DMS or ADF.

Are you saying that you have a working DMS of Dragon's Breath which doesn't require a patch? If not, then it's hardly a disadvantage of ADFs, because I was able to write ADF images of the game to real Amiga disks and apply the patch to run the game, just as you used the DMS images.

RetroMan · 16 October 2001, 09:54

@Twistin'

Could you perhaps post your version 2.20r ???? Thx

Twistin'Ghost · 16 October 2001, 11:22

@Retroman
It's in The Zone. It's an lha archive inside the zip. As I say, I have never had any problems with this version.

@Cody

Quote:

And with the use of my old Warp and DMS (which are considered too old-school for some people), I am at least able to play "Dragon's Breath"!

Nothing more, nothing less. My point was that the ADF format is not a panacea replacement for old school Amiga tools. Anymore than emulation is a replacement for the real thing.

I thought we agreed to leave it to personal preference...

CodyJarrett · 16 October 2001, 11:29

Quote:

And with the use of my old Warp and DMS (which are considered too old-school for some people), I am at least able to play "Dragon's Breath"!

My point is that you could replace the word 'DMS' with 'ADF' above, so it's not really an advantage of DMS! From what you say, it suggests that DMS is better than ADF in the case of Dragon's Breath.

It's still down to personal preference, but I thought that I'd mention the above.

Twistin'Ghost · 16 October 2001, 12:14

Well I thought by my mentioning DMS and WRP together that it was clear I was not pumping up DMS...and coupled with the fact that I was stating that Dragon's Breath was not compatible with the ADF format, it seems very clear that I was addressing the limitations of the ADF format.

The only deviation from that was my reference to them being too old school, responding to the tone that was first taken in this tirade from Icy with comments like "...this isn't the old days, and we aren't all limited to 1200bps modems and 200 meg harddrives..."

RetroMan · 16 October 2001, 12:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
@Retroman
It's in The Zone. It's an lha archive inside the zip. As I say, I have never had any problems with this version.

Thx a lot

CodyJarrett · 16 October 2001, 13:26

Quote:

I am at least able to play "Dragon's Breath"!

Just like anyone who has got a DMS/ADF of the crack, the warp patch and a real Amiga. Congrats anyway, Twistin!

icycool · 16 October 2001, 16:35

Ok, just to make a few points crystal clear here..

*Codys & my disks didn't 'go' bad..they were created badly.

*Tosec & dats are for cataloguing only and bear no influence on whether the images they catalog are for emulation or the real thing, it also brings new images to the 'real' users as no such system exists on Amiga.

*To image a disk 'readdisk dfx: image.name'
*To write an image to disk 'writedisk image.name dfx:'

As previously stated, i use ADF instead of DMS on my real Amiga's.. nothing to do with emulation.

Its your perogative to use a potentially faulty product, and if you have problems of corrupt disks and don't do what CodeT does with comparing disks, its no fault but your own.

CodyJarrett · 16 October 2001, 16:41

Quote:

*Tosec & dats are for cataloguing only and bear no influence on whether the images they catalog are for emulation or the real thing, it also brings new images to the 'real' users as no such system exists on Amiga.

IcyCool - TOSEC Amiga doesn't support real Amigas, as the filenames are too long.

Which brings me back to my old question about why all the extra TOSEC info is stored in the filename, rather than a database.

icycool · 16 October 2001, 17:05

Ok, point taken, standard Amiga filenames are only 31 chars long.. BCPL string. However, you can get an extender program to allow filenames up to 255 chars on Amiga.

But your right in the aspect that the filenames are useless for standard Amiga's but tosec and similar are certainly a benefit to the real Amy community as it sources and catalogues a large quantity of software.

Regarding Tosec's long names.. TUGID.. something they are working on, now several months overdue

will strip all irrelevant information from the filenames, but don't expect to see them replaced with labels such as DSKXXXXX.ADF or anything similarly generic.

§ane · 16 October 2001, 17:40

Quote:

Originally posted by |cy[ool
Regarding Tosec's long names.. TUGID.. something they are working on, now several months overdue

will strip all irrelevant information from the filenames, but don't expect to see them replaced with labels such as DSKXXXXX.ADF or anything similarly generic.

[/B]

If i had it my way i'd replace the filenames with their CRC counterpart, being that CRC-32 is always 8 chars long it would comply with any file system standard.

eg.
"Secret of Monkey Island (1990)(Lucasfilms)(Sp)(Disk 1 of 4).adf" becomes "BB55F647.adf"

The rest of the information regarding the file would reside in a database. It may sound like a crazy idea but i think it's what it'll come down to in the end, or at least some kind of numerical system.

CodyJarrett · 16 October 2001, 18:03

I favour a text GameID which is less or equal to 20 characters in length (e.g. Turrican2). The only other info needed is a version ID (to distinguish between different cracks) and disk numbers (but it is not necessary to include the total disks like 'Disk 1 of 3' - only _1, _2 etc.)

16 October 2001, 18:03	#33
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,160	I favour a text GameID which is less or equal to 20 characters in length (e.g. Turrican2). The only other info needed is a version ID (to distinguish between different cracks) and disk numbers (but it is not necessary to include the total disks like 'Disk 1 of 3' - only _1, _2 etc.) Last edited by CodyJarrett; 16 October 2001 at 18:10.

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16 October 2001, 09:07	#21
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	Well DMS 2.20r was actually The Loons 100% release (at least my version is...) of the ParCon version, only with improvements and fixes. Was there any other disk besides Superfrog disk 3 that DMS would not work on? On the other end of the spectrum, as you pointed out in different words, by having everything archived as ADF's, if you want the trained versions or other patches, you need an entirely separate ADF image just to accommodate a few meager tracks. And with the use of my old Warp and DMS (which are considered too old-school for some people), I am at least able to play "Dragon's Breath"! Everyone's adf's of that game are worthless, so I am far from ready to retire them.

16 October 2001, 09:30	#22
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,160	For Dragon's Breath surely it doesn't matter whether you are using DMS or ADF? Both will need the image to be written to a disk on a real Amiga and then have the warp patch applied. I thought that Dragon's Breath doesn't work because there is some protection which can't be imaged on either DMS or ADF. Are you saying that you have a working DMS of Dragon's Breath which doesn't require a patch? If not, then it's hardly a disadvantage of ADFs, because I was able to write ADF images of the game to real Amiga disks and apply the patch to run the game, just as you used the DMS images.

16 October 2001, 09:54	#23
RetroMan Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Germany Age: 51 Posts: 3,704	@Twistin' Could you perhaps post your version 2.20r ???? Thx

16 October 2001, 12:14	#26
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	Well I thought by my mentioning DMS and WRP together that it was clear I was not pumping up DMS...and coupled with the fact that I was stating that Dragon's Breath was not compatible with the ADF format, it seems very clear that I was addressing the limitations of the ADF format. The only deviation from that was my reference to them being too old school, responding to the tone that was first taken in this tirade from Icy with comments like "...this isn't the old days, and we aren't all limited to 1200bps modems and 200 meg harddrives..."

16 October 2001, 16:35	#29
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Ok, just to make a few points crystal clear here.. Codys & my disks didn't 'go' bad..they were created badly. Tosec & dats are for cataloguing only and bear no influence on whether the images they catalog are for emulation or the real thing, it also brings new images to the 'real' users as no such system exists on Amiga. To image a disk 'readdisk dfx: image.name' To write an image to disk 'writedisk image.name dfx:' As previously stated, i use ADF instead of DMS on my real Amiga's.. nothing to do with emulation. Its your perogative to use a potentially faulty product, and if you have problems of corrupt disks and don't do what CodeT does with comparing disks, its no fault but your own.

16 October 2001, 17:05	#31
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Ok, point taken, standard Amiga filenames are only 31 chars long.. BCPL string. However, you can get an extender program to allow filenames up to 255 chars on Amiga. But your right in the aspect that the filenames are useless for standard Amiga's but tosec and similar are certainly a benefit to the real Amy community as it sources and catalogues a large quantity of software. Regarding Tosec's long names.. TUGID.. something they are working on, now several months overdue will strip all irrelevant information from the filenames, but don't expect to see them replaced with labels such as DSKXXXXX.ADF or anything similarly generic.

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