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Old 08 August 2018, 23:22   #81
JimDrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grond View Post
How about you open your own thread to advertise the fpgaarcade stuff?
Yeah, sorry for the thread hijack. Back to my issue...

The problem still remains for me with the v2.10 GOLD core. I can simply just flash back to v2.9 and FUSION works perfectly. Flashing again back to v2.10 and it doesn't. I went back as far as the Silver releases and all of those work as well. Something must have changed with v2.10. My Amiga is crashed so bad when the Mac OS starts up that I have to physically power off the Amiga with the power switch and let it sit for 5 or more seconds before I can turn it back on. CTRL-Amiga-Amiga has no affect.

I can certainly take a video of this happening, but that is not going to help resolve anything.
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Old 09 August 2018, 12:13   #82
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All cores run my copy of Fusion and newer test cores and fine on all my gear and the rest of the testers AFAIK. I don't think video is required as this has been sorted.
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Old 09 August 2018, 12:18   #83
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Silly question - why not use the serial port for debugging?
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Old 09 August 2018, 13:33   #84
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Silly question - why not use the serial port for debugging?
no, good question! I really tried to crash Fusion without success on G10
We need more info to try reproduce the issues from Jim!
Meh!
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Old 09 August 2018, 16:06   #85
Crom
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I guess as its a Kipper card and not a Majsta card that could be part of it? My outfit consists of Kipper Vampires and brand new Majsta cards and V4... I say wait for Gold 2.11 core. I will continue to use Fusion as I have all my original stuff. Jim any hopes of ever supporting os 9 68k with fusion? Also with PPC emulation now on UAE with Intel CPU's will Fusion PPC ever be made available?


Have you a time frame for the new Fusion release? As there is a fairly decent installed Vampire user base a new version would be appreciated. I would even like to see how it does on my PC and bounce back and forth between UAE and Vampire.
thanks!
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Old 09 August 2018, 16:30   #86
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Jim any hopes of ever supporting os 9 68k with fusion?
MacOS 9 was never available for 68k Macs, 8.1 was the last version to support 68k.
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Old 09 August 2018, 17:20   #87
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I have one "kipper card" v600v2 and one "majsta card" v500v2, cannot say I have noticed much difference with them, except that the "majsta card" really needs the cap fix, it keeps blinking black on the HDMI output if I set it to use same resolution as the "kipper card".
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Old 09 August 2018, 18:24   #88
Crom
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MacOS 9 was never available for 68k Macs, 8.1 was the last version to support 68k.
That's right 68k was emulated by then!
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Old 09 August 2018, 22:34   #89
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I have two Kipper cards, both x12 capable and have never had an issue. I would imagine that the flash ROM -->FPGA is checksum'd some how so it shouldn't be a flash ROM issue.

I am not sure what to think. All I know is that I can run FUSION with v2.9, flash it to v2.10 (wait 1 minute after power off to make sure memory is cleared) and the Mac physically crashes the Amiga.

Were any changes made to the MMU registers, FPU registers, CCR, memory usage, etc? Maybe the Mac thinks that MMU is available or something? This is not a FUSION problem, it's a MacOS problem because it happens with any version of FUSION, and Shapeshifter does the same thing as well. I can't really debug through the serial port. I might be able to debug through Winkbug though. That is a developer tool that I did use back in the day. It was made by Jeff from the Puzzle Factory (from "Resource" fame). It plugs into the parallel port. It's a box that looks like a printer switcher, but with a 20x2 LCD screen where you can display messages using the winkbug.library. It came in handy when originally developing EMPLANT's Mac emulation.

Yes, OS8.1 was the last 68K version released. I sold the rights to FUSION-PPC, so I can't release that.

Last edited by JimDrew; 09 August 2018 at 22:40.
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Old 09 August 2018, 23:21   #90
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... HDMI output ...
You mean the digital video output. No HDMI on your card.
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Old 09 August 2018, 23:56   #91
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Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
I have two Kipper cards, both x12 capable and have never had an issue.
All kipper cards had a power issue where the FPGA wouldn't get enough power during heavy loads. Addition of capacitors is needed at two points to make the card stable. Most people experience this beyond 2.7 and forward. Maybe 2.10 x12 was a breaking point for your "black" cards.
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Old 10 August 2018, 00:18   #92
Crom
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If you are using a black card its not gonna work reliably without the cap mod especially with newer cores. I had two black Kipper black cards and had to recap them to run newer X11 or better cores with stability. I tried to resist recapping but when I was testing cores it was really hit and miss. After that really rock solid. HD video out is stable.
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Old 10 August 2018, 01:19   #93
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Originally Posted by Marlon_ View Post
All kipper cards had a power issue where the FPGA wouldn't get enough power during heavy loads. Addition of capacitors is needed at two points to make the card stable. Most people experience this beyond 2.7 and forward. Maybe 2.10 x12 was a breaking point for your "black" cards.

My boards are green, but I did add caps long ago.
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Old 10 August 2018, 01:24   #94
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You mean the digital video output. No HDMI on your card.

If an HDMI connector fits and it outputs a video and/or audio data stream, then it's HDMI. That is the gist of what the HDMI group has for one of its many patents. Even things like a simple DVI to HDMI cable requires licensing the patent.

The Display Port patent is also now actively being enforced.
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Old 10 August 2018, 02:55   #95
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Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
If an HDMI connector fits and it outputs a video and/or audio data stream, then it's HDMI. That is the gist of what the HDMI group has for one of its many patents. Even things like a simple DVI to HDMI cable requires licensing the patent.

The Display Port patent is also now actively being enforced.

I think they'll be alright.
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Old 10 August 2018, 06:32   #96
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Perhaps, but they were happy to threaten me with legal action had I been manufacturing or even distributing the product. All it takes to make everything legal is licensing the HDMI technology, which is pretty cheap really.
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Old 10 August 2018, 08:03   #97
grond
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US patents cannot be enforced in Europe. Please start your own thread about this topic. The fact remains that several people have shown MacOS 8.1 running on a Vampire with Gold 2.10. Your "bug report" is not reproducible.
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Old 10 August 2018, 11:15   #98
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I had a look at the HDMI licencing thing; it's the end product which needs a licence, so the FPGAarcade thing would require one too, whether the components used were already licensed or not. People in glass houses...

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that patents can't be applied to cleanroom reimplementations which are interface compatible but otherwise independently developed.

On JimDrew's problems; are you using the same version of FUSION which everyone else is, or an updated version you're testing?
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Old 10 August 2018, 12:40   #99
Megol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
If an HDMI connector fits and it outputs a video and/or audio data stream, then it's HDMI. That is the gist of what the HDMI group has for one of its many patents. Even things like a simple DVI to HDMI cable requires licensing the patent.

The Display Port patent is also now actively being enforced.
So you are claiming that buying a connector and soldering it into a PCB requires a license? The manufacturer pays a license fee to the creator of the connector standard but why would the one paying for a connector do it too?

As for Displayport: bogus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
Perhaps, but they were happy to threaten me with legal action had I been manufacturing or even distributing the product. All it takes to make everything legal is licensing the HDMI technology, which is pretty cheap really.
Not cheap for this purpose. It would require overheads to handle the licensing, it would require per-device fee handling and potentially having to prove how many devices have been manufactured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
I had a look at the HDMI licencing thing; it's the end product which needs a licence, so the FPGAarcade thing would require one too, whether the components used were already licensed or not. People in glass houses...

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that patents can't be applied to cleanroom reimplementations which are interface compatible but otherwise independently developed.
They absolutely can! However most amateur/semi-amateur creations use a DVI signal stream which HDMI is compatible with.

Last edited by Megol; 10 August 2018 at 12:47.
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Old 10 August 2018, 13:42   #100
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So you are claiming that buying a connector and soldering it into a PCB requires a license? The manufacturer pays a license fee to the creator of the connector standard but why would the one paying for a connector do it too?
Nope, you can solder as many sockets to boards as you wish, no problem. Selling a product that makes use of the standard does require a licence however. Just like many other technologies that are regularly licenced across the technology industry - exFAT for example.

Quote:
They absolutely can! However most amateur/semi-amateur creations use a DVI signal stream which HDMI is compatible with.
And that's fine since DVI connectors are very different to HDMI, even if they carry the same basic signals. It's important to note though that buying a HDMI connector is definitely not a cleanroom reimplementation of the HDMI connector...
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