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Old 10 November 2017, 00:56   #1
Trachu
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NeoGeo Metal Slug conversion to Amiga 500 - madman task ;-)

Hello

If you havent seen this game take a look here:
[ Show youtube player ]

It is probably the most action filled arcade game ever created.

The amount of graphics in this game is massive and NeoGeo machine is much more powerful than Amiga, so that is why i called it madman task, but maybe its possible.

To start thinking about this I converted the graphics to unfied 16colour OCS palette and they look really good
<Link to Zone removed> Check out db16.zip in the Zone

I used 16 colours because i dont even dream that we can fit more into 512kB chip RAM.
The whole unpacked IFFs uses 40MBytes, but they are far from being optimised:
1. A lot of sprites are repeated so we could use only the once that matter
2. IFF optimisation so no black spaces
3. Reduction of enemies etc.
4. At worst case we could go for 8 colours provide 25% reduction in graphics size...
5. Use chip AHX music and sounds

Anyone mad enough to do this?

Last edited by DH; 22 November 2017 at 12:16. Reason: Direct links to the Zone are forbidden
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:00   #2
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impressive unlicensed Game Boy Color version:
[ Show youtube player ]
and simplified but still good Game Boy Advance version:
[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:07   #3
Amigajay
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That GBC is very good for the hardware, I feel something like that or the NGPC version would be more realistic, the amount of animation and sprites etc in the NeoGeo version the Amiga stands no chance even reduced it would look very poor in comparison, better to try a lesser version imo
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:11   #4
DamienD
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People probably know by now that I'm an Arcade junkie

Who doesn't know "Metal Slug" or the series??? Unless you've been living under a rock.... I mean, it's now been released on enough systems in order to milk money...

@Trachu; I'm not saying it cannot be done but significant adjustments would need to be made.

...so the answer to you or anyone prepared to take on this mammoth task is; yes, you are mad!!!
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:13   #5
Trachu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
That GBC is very good for the hardware, I feel something like that or the NGPC version would be more realistic, the amount of animation and sprites etc in the NeoGeo version the Amiga stands no chance even reduced it would look very poor in comparison, better to try a lesser version imo
Gameboy Advance is still more powerful than Amiga but within its reach.
If you look at specs you could see that it has even less memory than Amiga but that is not quite correct.
MEtal Slug for this console limits sprite data which can be seen that the variety of sprites visible in single scene is reduced. Memory constrains it, but it can load dynamically more graphics data from cartridge.
Amiga 500 has only its memory which need to contain all and access for more can be done only throught slow floppy drive. That makes the task difficult.
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:18   #6
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I'll quote Akira here in relation to other games

...if you can produce a *decent* Metal Slug version on the Amiga; I'll eat my shorts

Saying that, not as impossible as this: Playstation Resident Evil on Amiga!
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:24   #7
Trachu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
I'll quote Akira here in relation to other games

...if you can produce a *decent* Metal Slug version on the Amiga; I'll eat my shorts

Saying that, not as impossible as this: Playstation Resident Evil on Amiga!
Did you notice i already converted the graphics. You can eat half of your shorts already ;-)

Last edited by Trachu; 10 November 2017 at 01:39.
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:30   #8
Amigajay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trachu View Post
Gameboy Advance is still more powerful than Amiga but within its reach.
If you look at specs you could see that it has even less memory than Amiga but that is not quite correct.
MEtal Slug for this console limits sprite data which can be seen that the variety of sprites visible in single scene is reduced. Memory constrains it, but it can load dynamically more graphics data from cartridge.
Amiga 500 has only its memory which need to contain all and access for more can be done only throught slow floppy drive. That makes the task difficult.
GBA is more powerful than the NeoGeo in a lot of ways too.
But in general you will need at least 7MB to store the data going on how the NeoGeo CD version loaded it (and reloaded for new levels) so thatís the absolute minimum of RAM alone needed but thatís going if you can decode how they loaded that version otherwise itís 24MB!
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:33   #9
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Originally Posted by Trachu View Post
Did you notice i already converted the graphics. You can eat half of your shorts alaready ;-)
Akira,upload the video of eating shorts,I want to watch
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Old 10 November 2017, 01:38   #10
Trachu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
GBA is more powerful than the NeoGeo in a lot of ways too.
But in general you will need at least 7MB to store the data going on how the NeoGeo CD version loaded it (and reloaded for new levels) so that’s the absolute minimum of RAM alone needed but that’s going if you can decode how they loaded that version otherwise it’s 24MB!
Just to let you know how much we need memory.
For example enemy tank single 80x64 frame in 4 bits uses 2560bytes.
10 frames is 25kB, but many many frames dont differ so much and can be unified reducing final size.

There is also something i dont quite understand.
From what i know the most efficient usage of blitter requies triple buffering.

Does it mean if we have for example 320x356 frame buffer in 4 bitplanes we need 3x40kB=120kB of chip Ram??
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Old 10 November 2017, 03:42   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trachu View Post
Hello

If you havent seen this game take a look here:
[ Show youtube player ]

It is probably the most action filled arcade game ever created.

The amount of graphics in this game is massive and NeoGeo machine is much more powerful than Amiga, so that is why i called it madman task, but maybe its possible.

To start thinking about this I converted the graphics to unfied 16colour OCS palette and they look really good
http://download.abime.net/zone/db16.zip

I used 16 colours because i dont even dream that we can fit more into 512kB chip RAM.
The whole unpacked IFFs uses 40MBytes, but they are far from being optimised:
1. A lot of sprites are repeated so we could use only the once that matter
2. IFF optimisation so no black spaces
3. Reduction of enemies etc.
4. At worst case we could go for 8 colours provide 25% reduction in graphics size...
5. Use chip AHX music and sounds

Anyone mad enough to do this?
Im not expert, but for me this is doable for trackloading Amiga 500 game. The best examples for Amiga are Random Access games/conversions, like Swiv, Ninja Warriors and Saint Dragon. But dont use AHX for music/sounds for A500, is too slow for this style of game.

BTW. F.e one level on one disk, maybe 10 disks game?
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Old 10 November 2017, 04:50   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trachu View Post
I used 16 colours because i dont even dream that we can fit more into 512kB chip RAM.

The whole unpacked IFFs uses 40MBytes, but they are far from being optimised:
1. A lot of sprites are repeated so we could use only the once that matter
2. IFF optimisation so no black spaces
3. Reduction of enemies etc.
4. At worst case we could go for 8 colours provide 25% reduction in graphics size...
5. Use chip AHX music and sounds

Anyone mad enough to do this?
I think restricting things to 512kb Chip RAM seems a little stingy. Actually, why even bother with OCS? An A1200 with Fast RAM could do a much nicer version, with far fewer compromises required.

I'd love to see it running.

B
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Old 10 November 2017, 10:52   #13
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The A500 can't be the target machine. Those game needs to use the AGA display.

the A500 offers way too few colors.
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Old 10 November 2017, 10:59   #14
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Not possible imo. Way too much going on screen for an A500, even A1200 can't do it. But if you go A1200 with accelerator and fast ram maybe it could be done (with 32 colors or so)
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Old 10 November 2017, 11:12   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
Not possible imo. Way too much going on screen for an A500, even A1200 can't do it. But if you go A1200 with accelerator and fast ram maybe it could be done (with 32 colors or so)
The 1200 can, if the amount of colors is lowered.
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Old 10 November 2017, 11:20   #16
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Originally Posted by Trachu View Post
Just to let you know how much we need memory.
For example enemy tank single 80x64 frame in 4 bits uses 2560bytes.
10 frames is 25kB, but many many frames dont differ so much and can be unified reducing final size.

There is also something i dont quite understand.
From what i know the most efficient usage of blitter requies triple buffering.

Does it mean if we have for example 320x356 frame buffer in 4 bitplanes we need 3x40kB=120kB of chip Ram??
Yes, but you need more than 320x256 because you need extra ram for scrolling.

Donít forget you also need ram for the sprite masks.
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Old 10 November 2017, 11:35   #17
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
The 1200 can, if the amount of colors is lowered.
LoL even Neo Geo has slow downs and it's a 2D powerhouse. If you can do that then maybe start porting Sega Saturn games too.
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Old 10 November 2017, 12:44   #18
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Yes I totally agree Nobody, the Amiga has zero chance of getting anywhere near a decent port without major cutbacks which will appear more laughable to other retro community’s rather than try a lesser port, as I said if you can get the source to that Unofficial GBC game which I believe all fits on a 2MB cart will be a easy target without cuts needed, just using lower colour NeoGeo sprites does not make it now possible to port such a sprite intense game.
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Old 10 November 2017, 12:58   #19
s2325
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should have "insert disk #" with Metal Slug voice
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Old 10 November 2017, 13:02   #20
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Did you notice i already converted the graphics. You can eat half of your shorts already ;-)
You mean eat something like 1/100 of his shorts?
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