Cloanto debate - Page 10

lopos2000 · 05 October 2006, 13:38

I voted 'No' as I find the product overpriced and useless.

ElectroBlaster · 05 October 2006, 15:35

Well 79.17% of the people on this board says it all tbh

Nothing beats a straight winuae install, some kickstart roms and a bit of patience and knowledge from the fine people here at EAB and your set

Zetr0 · 05 October 2006, 17:36

LOL, best not tell cloanto or they might try an license us... or worse state we are in breach of another vaperated license...

guru64 · 08 October 2006, 04:30

Why I refuse to pay for Kickstart and Workbench:

I own 2 A500, A1200, A2500/30. All machines came originally with complete Set of Workbench. My Disks are by now lost/destroyed/formated and used as gamedisks, etc... Of course it's my own fault that the disks are now unusable, since I was too lazy to back each one of them up every other year to ensure they still work. But who carez, that's what the Internet is useful for. I can leech somebody's adf backup of the disks since Commodore is gone, and no company supports the Amiga in an appropriate way.
If I loose my nvidia drivers, I just leech them from nvidia, cause I initially paid for them and the card is useless without drivers, as is an Amiga without Workbench to me.

Of course I also leeched the Kickstart, since I am too lazz to drive to my mum's place, dig out my Amigas from the cellar, drive them to my flat, set them up in my tiny room, get them to boot up, build a connection-cable to my PC and transfer them over ... I may do so someday when I got time but for now I prefer to leech what I need from the net.

Marcuz · 08 October 2006, 14:02

so basically there's a commodity that you don't want to pay for and you steal it. nothing new, thanks for the priceless contribute

Jope · 08 October 2006, 15:10

I voted on all of the choices since it was multi choice! :-D

But serious stuff too:

If you at some time purchased an Amiga and sold it, you sold your license to the ROMs along with it.

If you own an Amiga but have lost the WB disks / not received them from the previous owner, you are not entitled to free copies of the disks.

This is how the license goes.. Unfortunately I don't have my A500 user's guide or my OS2.04 manuals here so I can't quote you what it says in the beginning of those.

Ultron · 08 October 2006, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco pedrana

so basically there's a commodity that you don't want to pay for and you steal it. nothing new, thanks for the priceless contribute

::Hypocrisy meter explodes::

He already payed for them more then once!

Jope · 08 October 2006, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

::Hypocrisy meter explodes:: :cheese

He already payed for them more then once! :banghead

But the license is what's upheld in the court of law.. You can make all kinds of excuses to warrant your actions, but they're still illegal.

If you guys want to pirate the stuff, then no-one can stop you, but why can't you do it in quiet since it's indeed so easy to get hold of those ks roms and wb disks from the internet?

If you want to change the licensing details, why not contact amiga inc or whoever owns the licenses instead of beating a dead horse on an obscure amiga board?

EmuChicken · 08 October 2006, 16:33

I'm sure in the court of law, you'd just get laughed at if you were found with illegal copies of kick13.rom / workbench on your hard disk.

Jope · 08 October 2006, 17:01

Yes, probably you won't get sued for it, but that was not my point.

My point was - it's illegal! No matter how unenforcable it is.

Now please just everyone let the issue go and continue your illegal activities in quiet (and not through EAB because EAB CAN get in trouble if you post the copyrighted content on this board). This thread has been going nowhere from page 1..

Still: you will not get KS/WB warezing legalised by posting in this thread! Go to the copyright holders with your issues.

I have nothing more to add to this discussion really..

Oh yes and the opinions in these posts are my own, not EAB's official stance on anything. Read about the EAB's stance at the FAQ.

TTFN, HAND! :-)

Marcuz · 08 October 2006, 18:16

i'm completely with Jope, i just prefer not debate with someone that likes to ignore completely what 1) reality is 2) what are other people' points (and so far no problem) but 3) ALSO claims reason. instead i prefer telling you that today i was in a large wood area next to a lake, where there was this good looking girl getting tan, but i was on the other side of the lake so i wasn't able to get there. instead i got to what's called "terre ballerine", in english, "dancing lands" a wood area grown on an ancient essicated lake wich was on turn a peatery, a bog of a more ancient wood. the peat is still under the land, so when you walk on it it seems you are walking on a water mat and if you jump, the trees around you, for a ten meters, tremble and move. cool.
ps. i just add that while i can differ on getting accused of hipocrisy, to spend time raging at copyrights of that stuff, while you have since years grabbed and used the available versions on internet, wich are many more than the ones you would actually use, is a real show of wasting: time, energy, credibility, other people' patience. see ya

zipper · 20 October 2006, 18:56

I just bought Amiga Emulator Box to get a working A1200 KS3.1 -probably legal- image. All those that I downloaded during 5-6 years to get WHDLoad to work on my A4000 refused to work....At last fully working WHDLoad (registered of course) - just tried with Capital Punishment/UAE.

Ultron · 21 October 2006, 07:16

Dom Quixote keeps fighting the straw man.

The point isn't if it's legal or ilegal.

The point of the whole thread, from the begining was and is: If Cloanto was greedily immoral in illegalizing Kickstart and Workbench that was up until that point, like most abandoned platforms of the 90's, freely available on websites they destroyed; and if such behaviour was and is nefarious and prejudicial to the Amiga Emulation scene.

Clear cut answers: Yes, and yes.

Discussing if Bob69 downloaded 512 kilobytes three years ago, and how immoral he is, while your hard disk is filled with Mp3s, your eyes perusing YouTube, and a couple of xeroxes dangling on the corner, next to your old VHS and audio tapes, is thoroughly indiferent and indulging in fallacious circular logic at best.

Fred the Fop · 21 October 2006, 07:28

You know, fuck the sanctamonious attitude about legality. WE are illegal. We rape the enviornment, slaughter people, babies, animals, cultures, and oceans.
WE start holocausts and burn forests and cheat old people and break vows and whatnot.

WHAT THE FLYING FUCK IS IT WITH YOU "LEGAL" FREAKS???

All this crap we do, and you bloody worry about the morality of pirating nearly worthless 20+ year technology??

Avanze · 21 October 2006, 08:14

Simply, no.

JonSick · 21 October 2006, 09:34

Well personally, I have owned two A1200s, A500 and now own a CD32, an A1200 on the way and plans to acquire another A500.

I tried out winuae, sure. But why not? I paid for the roms already! I have perfectly good access to roms and workbench disks, but why should I go to all this bother to transrom them when I can nick somebody elses from limwire. Also, why should I re-buy something I already bought multiple times just cuz amiga wants to sell me that amiga forever hoo-haa.

Not tried amiga forever, didn't even waste the time downloading it. I'm sure its great, but as long as I have my amigas set up, I'm happy. My PC is a music PC and I dont wanna load tonnes of crap on there. Its a clean system.

My games machine is a PC games machine, that's it.

My brief emulating on the pc was exactly that: brief! Sod giving cloanto £50 so I can check if something works real quick before I burn it off to cd and put it on the amiga.

cloanto only makes money out of people like you and me - the old school who want to relive the old days. The day they put out something interesting and new and innovative is the day I'd pony up my cash, but until then, they can go to hell!

Marcuz · 21 October 2006, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

Clear cut answers: Yes, and yes.

or No and No

Marcuz · 21 October 2006, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred the Duck

You know, fuck the sanctamonious attitude about legality. WE are illegal. We rape the enviornment, slaughter people, babies, animals, cultures, and oceans.
WE start holocausts and burn forests and cheat old people and break vows and whatnot.

WHAT THE FLYING FUCK IS IT WITH YOU "LEGAL" FREAKS???

All this crap we do, and you bloody worry about the morality of pirating nearly worthless 20+ year technology??

i agree and you should be back on the street further hindering the society's efforts to a modest tenure. i really agree, mind you, in this debate i simply am annoyed by silly attitude like the one of people that calls other guys ugly and meanies because the opposite would mean to plainly admit they are doing something illegal.

JohnnyWalker · 26 October 2006, 00:19

They DO offer a "lite" version. It's called Amiga Forever Online and it costs $30. Although after reading about their complicated "packages", I'm not 100% sure if you get all the ROMs for that. Apparently there's an even lighter version called "Express Edition", which doesn't include WB 3.X, but I couldn't find that to buy anywhere.

Hmmm. It seems that if they are going to keep trying to sell old software they should revamp their packages and reduce their prices, IMHO.

30 October 2006, 08:40

I believe the people who bemoan Cloanto for making money off of this software are the same ones who refused to upgrade from their A500 to an A3000 because "It looks like a pc" or refused to buy an A1200 because "It's so expensive" This cheapness helped bury Commodore and all the software houses who had their games pirated a day after release. You tightwads killed the Amiga community so don't try to lay blame on everyone else.

View Poll Results: Do you own/use Amiga Forever? - Multiple Choice Poll
Yes I find it a very useful package	21	14.48%
Yes it is worth the money	15	10.34%
Yes but I thought it was too expensive	14	9.66%
Yes but there are better alternatives	8	5.52%
Yes but it was not of much use to me and was a waste of money	12	8.28%
No	86	59.31%
I would consider it if there was a Lite version	10	6.90%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

08 October 2006, 17:01	#190
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Yes, probably you won't get sued for it, but that was not my point. My point was - it's illegal! No matter how unenforcable it is. Now please just everyone let the issue go and continue your illegal activities in quiet (and not through EAB because EAB CAN get in trouble if you post the copyrighted content on this board). This thread has been going nowhere from page 1.. Still: you will not get KS/WB warezing legalised by posting in this thread! Go to the copyright holders with your issues. I have nothing more to add to this discussion really.. Oh yes and the opinions in these posts are my own, not EAB's official stance on anything. Read about the EAB's stance at the FAQ. TTFN, HAND! :-) Last edited by Jope; 08 October 2006 at 17:13.

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05 October 2006, 13:38	#181
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	I voted 'No' as I find the product overpriced and useless.

05 October 2006, 15:35	#182
ElectroBlaster Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Exeter, Devon, UK Age: 49 Posts: 1,705	Well 79.17% of the people on this board says it all tbh Nothing beats a straight winuae install, some kickstart roms and a bit of patience and knowledge from the fine people here at EAB and your set

05 October 2006, 17:36	#183
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	LOL, best not tell cloanto or they might try an license us... or worse state we are in breach of another vaperated license...

08 October 2006, 04:30	#184
guru64 Oldskool God Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: europe Posts: 28	Why I refuse to pay for Kickstart and Workbench: I own 2 A500, A1200, A2500/30. All machines came originally with complete Set of Workbench. My Disks are by now lost/destroyed/formated and used as gamedisks, etc... Of course it's my own fault that the disks are now unusable, since I was too lazy to back each one of them up every other year to ensure they still work. But who carez, that's what the Internet is useful for. I can leech somebody's adf backup of the disks since Commodore is gone, and no company supports the Amiga in an appropriate way. If I loose my nvidia drivers, I just leech them from nvidia, cause I initially paid for them and the card is useless without drivers, as is an Amiga without Workbench to me. Of course I also leeched the Kickstart, since I am too lazz to drive to my mum's place, dig out my Amigas from the cellar, drive them to my flat, set them up in my tiny room, get them to boot up, build a connection-cable to my PC and transfer them over ... I may do so someday when I got time but for now I prefer to leech what I need from the net.

08 October 2006, 14:02	#185
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	so basically there's a commodity that you don't want to pay for and you steal it. nothing new, thanks for the priceless contribute

08 October 2006, 15:10	#186
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	I voted on all of the choices since it was multi choice! :-D But serious stuff too: If you at some time purchased an Amiga and sold it, you sold your license to the ROMs along with it. If you own an Amiga but have lost the WB disks / not received them from the previous owner, you are not entitled to free copies of the disks. This is how the license goes.. Unfortunately I don't have my A500 user's guide or my OS2.04 manuals here so I can't quote you what it says in the beginning of those.

08 October 2006, 16:33	#189
EmuChicken Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nagoya, Japan (moved!) Age: 41 Posts: 746	I'm sure in the court of law, you'd just get laughed at if you were found with illegal copies of kick13.rom / workbench on your hard disk.

08 October 2006, 18:16	#191
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	i'm completely with Jope, i just prefer not debate with someone that likes to ignore completely what 1) reality is 2) what are other people' points (and so far no problem) but 3) ALSO claims reason. instead i prefer telling you that today i was in a large wood area next to a lake, where there was this good looking girl getting tan, but i was on the other side of the lake so i wasn't able to get there. instead i got to what's called "terre ballerine", in english, "dancing lands" a wood area grown on an ancient essicated lake wich was on turn a peatery, a bog of a more ancient wood. the peat is still under the land, so when you walk on it it seems you are walking on a water mat and if you jump, the trees around you, for a ten meters, tremble and move. cool. ps. i just add that while i can differ on getting accused of hipocrisy, to spend time raging at copyrights of that stuff, while you have since years grabbed and used the available versions on internet, wich are many more than the ones you would actually use, is a real show of wasting: time, energy, credibility, other people' patience. see ya

20 October 2006, 18:56	#192
zipper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: finland Posts: 1,837	I just bought Amiga Emulator Box to get a working A1200 KS3.1 -probably legal- image. All those that I downloaded during 5-6 years to get WHDLoad to work on my A4000 refused to work....At last fully working WHDLoad (registered of course) - just tried with Capital Punishment/UAE.

21 October 2006, 07:16	#193
Ultron Something Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Amigaland, Nostalgia Age: 48 Posts: 757	Dom Quixote keeps fighting the straw man. The point isn't if it's legal or ilegal. The point of the whole thread, from the begining was and is: If Cloanto was greedily immoral in illegalizing Kickstart and Workbench that was up until that point, like most abandoned platforms of the 90's, freely available on websites they destroyed; and if such behaviour was and is nefarious and prejudicial to the Amiga Emulation scene. Clear cut answers: Yes, and yes. Discussing if Bob69 downloaded 512 kilobytes three years ago, and how immoral he is, while your hard disk is filled with Mp3s, your eyes perusing YouTube, and a couple of xeroxes dangling on the corner, next to your old VHS and audio tapes, is thoroughly indiferent and indulging in fallacious circular logic at best.

21 October 2006, 07:28	#194
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	You know, fuck the sanctamonious attitude about legality. WE are illegal. We rape the enviornment, slaughter people, babies, animals, cultures, and oceans. WE start holocausts and burn forests and cheat old people and break vows and whatnot. WHAT THE FLYING FUCK IS IT WITH YOU "LEGAL" FREAKS??? All this crap we do, and you bloody worry about the morality of pirating nearly worthless 20+ year technology??

21 October 2006, 08:14	#195
Avanze Amiga User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Age: 47 Posts: 562	Simply, no.

21 October 2006, 09:34	#196
JonSick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 255	Well personally, I have owned two A1200s, A500 and now own a CD32, an A1200 on the way and plans to acquire another A500. I tried out winuae, sure. But why not? I paid for the roms already! I have perfectly good access to roms and workbench disks, but why should I go to all this bother to transrom them when I can nick somebody elses from limwire. Also, why should I re-buy something I already bought multiple times just cuz amiga wants to sell me that amiga forever hoo-haa. Not tried amiga forever, didn't even waste the time downloading it. I'm sure its great, but as long as I have my amigas set up, I'm happy. My PC is a music PC and I dont wanna load tonnes of crap on there. Its a clean system. My games machine is a PC games machine, that's it. My brief emulating on the pc was exactly that: brief! Sod giving cloanto £50 so I can check if something works real quick before I burn it off to cd and put it on the amiga. cloanto only makes money out of people like you and me - the old school who want to relive the old days. The day they put out something interesting and new and innovative is the day I'd pony up my cash, but until then, they can go to hell!

26 October 2006, 00:19	#199
JohnnyWalker aka ThunderPeel2001 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Age: 45 Posts: 303	They DO offer a "lite" version. It's called Amiga Forever Online and it costs $30. Although after reading about their complicated "packages", I'm not 100% sure if you get all the ROMs for that. Apparently there's an even lighter version called "Express Edition", which doesn't include WB 3.X, but I couldn't find that to buy anywhere. Hmmm. It seems that if they are going to keep trying to sell old software they should revamp their packages and reduce their prices, IMHO.

30 October 2006, 08:40	#200
Gunbot Posts: n/a	I believe the people who bemoan Cloanto for making money off of this software are the same ones who refused to upgrade from their A500 to an A3000 because "It looks like a pc" or refused to buy an A1200 because "It's so expensive" This cheapness helped bury Commodore and all the software houses who had their games pirated a day after release. You tightwads killed the Amiga community so don't try to lay blame on everyone else.

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