28 October 2018, 18:10 | #581 | |
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IIRC Sophie had a bit of a sulk (overstating for effect) about DIVS being in there at all. It wasn’t there on ARMv1. She was also pretty against the FPA ... I have one of those too in my A540 [ Show youtube player ] See from around 7 mins in. Notice that ARM is referred to as the Acorn RISC Machine. Sophie always seemed pathologically against having anything complex in the chip. Rightly or wrongly Last edited by plasmab; 28 October 2018 at 18:29. |
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28 October 2018, 19:37 | #582 |
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Well, then thanks to Sophie for giving in...
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28 October 2018, 20:58 | #583 | ||
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The CPU is usually only a small part of the total cost. High-end systems generally get the latest CPUs first because they need the power and price doesn't matter, but prices soon tumble once consumer machines get them. By 1992 'high-end' 486 clones were selling for under $2000. In 1993 the Macintosh LC 475 was priced at $1085. Quote:
All this arguing about whether x or y CPU was more powerful or cost less per mip is silly. A CPU by itself is worthless. It's the other parts of the system - RAM, ROM, chipsets, storage devices, OS, application software - that make the difference. If you are comparing systems then everything must be considered, not just the CPU. |
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28 October 2018, 21:30 | #584 | |
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The number of games ported was lower i guess. EDIT: if you still have that A3010 i'll buy it from you. it has one of the best TV modulator circuits i've ever seen. Last edited by plasmab; 28 October 2018 at 21:36. |
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28 October 2018, 21:47 | #585 | ||
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As for using OS calls, IIRC both of you agreed to not use those any more. As such, I didn't feel it needed to refer to them. Quote:
A 25MHz 486 from april 1991 (see https://books.google.nl/books?id=0FA...201991&f=false) could be bought for $3000. Four times faster, but only about 1.7 times more expensive (yeah, I forgot to use the exchange rate between pounds and dollars - April 1991 puts it at 1.7 pounds per dollar, so the GPB 999 A3010 would be $1698). Seems Intel wins this round Note that a fast 386 or 68030 should also comfortably beat the 12MHz ARM2. And those were cheaper still. Last edited by roondar; 28 October 2018 at 21:55. Reason: Corrected for Exchange rate. |
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28 October 2018, 22:03 | #586 | |
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The fact that anyone is even comparing chip designed by two British guys with no funding against the 030s and x86s of this world is amazing. For me this is when the ISA was picked up and built in a professional way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrongARM It was a little late to win the PC battle of the 90s for sure... but its one amazing chip that keeps giving the more you study how to use it. It confuses me that the optimization fanatics arent more in love with it because its got more secrets to unlock than the 68000. Which I also love. |
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28 October 2018, 22:08 | #587 | |
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Also, the 1990's was the era in which people slowly transitioned away from doing everything in assembly to begin with, so the timing might also play a role here. |
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29 October 2018, 04:58 | #588 |
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Unfortunately I had a big cleanup and threw it out. Who knew that in a few short years all that old junk would become 'vintage' and highly sought after!
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29 October 2018, 11:04 | #589 | |||||||||
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That's the pot calling the kettle black...
Who uses tricks ? Code for time measurement is larger on the Amiga ! So we both can just remove it. Quote:
Sorry, but your 80386 code appears to have non-working timer code. Where is the text for the message saying what time it took ? Furthermore, i never said this version was the fastest anymore. I never said it still measured time anymore. No OS calls, we said. I'm just approaching this goal. I wouldn't say that, no. It's unbeaten only because you constantly change the rules. However, even with whatever rules you use, it would be largely beaten if using my own "reencoded from 68k" instruction set Quote:
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And that's a claim without proof. You're quite fast saying that for others, but you do the same now :/ Quote:
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Could you please post the 80386 code here as well ? |
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29 October 2018, 16:00 | #590 | ||
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29 October 2018, 16:20 | #591 |
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29 October 2018, 16:23 | #592 | ||
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https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19120-01...172/index.html |
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30 October 2018, 10:29 | #593 |
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I was impressed by how powerful the Archimedes machines were. The BASIC interpreter was damn fast, and if you got into C/assembler the chunky screen mode was very fast for stuff like line/polygon drawing.
Where it tended to suck was stuff like scrolling. |
30 October 2018, 15:25 | #594 | |
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Vertical scrolling is supported directly, horizontal can be done by manipulating borders. Last edited by Megol; 30 October 2018 at 15:43. |
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30 October 2018, 16:35 | #595 |
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The lack of scrolling prowess for the Acorn with it's ARM2 (as well as machines using 68030's, 386's etc) has always caused me some wonder. These processors should be plenty fast enough to do the whole thing in software and still easily make a 50/60Hz update rate.
A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that the ARM2@8MHz should be able to smoothly scroll a 320x256, 256 colour screen using no more than about 50% of the CPU time it has. That still leaves quite a bit of bandwidth/CPU power for softsprites, game/demo logic and the like. Perhaps it has more to do with the interface into graphics memory? |
30 October 2018, 17:08 | #596 | |
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The ARMv2 is plenty fast enough to update every frame.. and the barrel shifter makes pixel level scrolling free. see axis as an example game. Amiga coders want hardware way to do it. They don’t like to use their brain. EDIT: you can preload the MEMC video DMA register ahead of time so it latches on vsync. That’s free veritical scrolling. IIRC You can even poke the VIDC start window regs to get 2 pixel res horizontal scrolling for free. Yes.. 2 pixel res scrolling. http://chrisacorns.computinghistory...._Datasheet.pdf Last edited by plasmab; 30 October 2018 at 17:23. |
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30 October 2018, 17:30 | #597 |
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31 October 2018, 12:14 | #598 |
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If the CPU does the scrolling, you need the required mem bandwidth to a) read the screen data, b) write it back and then c) read it through video DMA. If the video hardware can scroll by itself, you only need c). Three times less memory impact, I still think the Amiga way is quite clever.
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31 October 2018, 12:18 | #599 | |
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You still need a write the buffer in the first place though. You do the shift as you create the scene. You don’t render, read, shift, write. Like I say... if you use your brain up front the result is the same. The Amiga way just means you don’t have to think. |
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31 October 2018, 12:50 | #600 |
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So all amiga custom chips are not usefull and we should use only the cpu power to do all kind of things.
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