OS 3.1 + Apollo 1260 - Strange Behaviour/Issue

[daxb]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Ok so I started going through the threads you sent me, I downloaded remapollo also. Got nowhere with is. Tried following the guide and nowhere really. First thing it asks you to do is run the "patch" it includes. This failed for me and through out the error saying only commodore 04 libraries supported.

First make sure you have 68060.library version 60.10 in your libs directory. RemApollo doc says 60.10 is the only supported version. Exception are the MMULib libraries (non working for you?) but they DON'T need the patch. Btw. if you use MMULibs you have to use MuDRAP instead of DRAP.

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

@paul1981

You still have an Apollo 1260 right? You mapped your rom using RemApollo?

Yes I have that same setup in the pic. No, I've never used RemApollo. I use Thor's MMU libs:

http://m68k.aminet.net/package/util/libs/MMULib

In that package there are programs that you can run (for your startup-sequence) and one of them is for remapping the ROM to your FastRAM.

I think you're rushing into things too much. Relax a bit, if your Amiga works then enjoy it and pick little bits up as you go along. That's how I learned. Do you have the SysSpeed? I think you do, so here's NovaCoder's saved speed test for comparison if you're interested. You should get over 100 MIPS. If you don't, let us know what you do get.

http://m68k.aminet.net/package/util/...1260_80Mhz_AGA

Have you tried anything 060 specific besides Doom060 yet? I want to make sure your 060 is fully working. Does everything you try work? It should do.

Regarding the fan, my fan is a old CPU fan from a PC, so it moves quite a bit of air (but is noisy) - your fan seems as though it needs to be on the CPU to do anything useful, so you need to either get it back on the CPU safely, or get something bigger blowing some air across it like mine. If you close the case and you don't have an airflow in there (particularly around the CPU) you are asking for trouble.

Oh the ACA 1200? I meant ACA A1200 - just a computer I put together for a friend with an ACA1232 inside. I like the ACA cards very much, and they have a nice MapROM feature and plenty of RAM.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by paul1981

Yes I have that same setup in the pic. No, I've never used RemApollo. I use Thor's MMU libs:

http://m68k.aminet.net/package/util/libs/MMULib

In that package there are programs that you can run (for your startup-sequence) and one of them is for remapping the ROM to your FastRAM.

I think you're rushing into things too much. Relax a bit, if your Amiga works then enjoy it and pick little bits up as you go along. That's how I learned. Do you have the SysSpeed? I think you do, so here's NovaCoder's saved speed test for comparison if you're interested. You should get over 100 MIPS. If you don't, let us know what you do get.

http://m68k.aminet.net/package/util/...1260_80Mhz_AGA

Have you tried anything 060 specific besides Doom060 yet? I want to make sure your 060 is fully working. Does everything you try work? It should do.

Regarding the fan, my fan is a old CPU fan from a PC, so it moves quite a bit of air (but is noisy) - your fan seems as though it needs to be on the CPU to do anything useful, so you need to either get it back on the CPU safely, or get something bigger blowing some air across it like mine. If you close the case and you don't have an airflow in there (particularly around the CPU) you are asking for trouble.

Oh the ACA 1200? I meant ACA A1200 - just a computer I put together for a friend with an ACA1232 inside. I like the ACA cards very much, and they have a nice MapROM feature and plenty of RAM.

Ok well I've started to try and use the MMULIB. I guess I hadn't done things right before. I just was swapping out libraries that came with it and didn't work with the Apollo. Have installed the maprom feature from MMUlib but not sure how to implement it. The one command I read and added to startup-sequence breaks booting altogether. Had to comment it out. I had MuRom Protect On added and this doesn't allow me to boot with it in. I put it after setpatch.

Yes I have novacoders Sysspeed data and loaded the module. But I dunno how to run a report on mine for comparison and how to save yet. From what it looked like (this was a few days ago) his was kicking my ass with most results.

The Mips I get on a 3.1 card is about 62ish just above. On the 3.1.4 it was slower.

I get ya, need to take my time! I guess I'm just keen!

Only tried Doom Attack, nothing else really. Some WHD load games that's about it. Oh and Gloom, which really disappointed me speed wise with the 060.

Originally Posted by daxb

First make sure you have 68060.library version 60.10 in your libs directory. RemApollo doc says 60.10 is the only supported version. Exception are the MMULib libraries (non working for you?) but they DON'T need the patch. Btw. if you use MMULibs you have to use MuDRAP instead of DRAP.

Yes I am using the Apollo disk libraries for this card.

I have started to mess with MMUlib now though and according to the guides I had to patch setpatch (my version is 34.6), then get rid of the Apollo 68040 dummy library and install the MMU.library, and the 680x0.library and with this installed and setpatch modified (have to do this in 3.1 apparently) setpatch will now use the 680x0.library to find the 68060.library and identify the CPU. Or something like that.

Have not read what MuDrap is yet.

[daxb]

You mean SetPatch V43.6, right? You should get V43.7 after apply the MMULib SetPatch patch.

Does it mean that your system now works with MMULib? If so you can start with RemApollo. I'm not sure but the CPU command in S-S is not needed. At least here with Apollo 1240, OS3.1, MMULib, RemApollo it is not needed.

DRAP (Apollo Remapper Deallocator) and MuDRAP (use it with MMULib libraries) are part of RemApollo (see V1.7 archive). RemApollo will work without but it is recommended to use it. Read the RemApllo.doc completely. You will find useful information throughout the document. I suggest to invest some time here. RemApollo is not a just fire and forget software. For example I start it this way:

RemApollo [...]
[...]
SetPatch
MuDRAP
[...]

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Ok well I've started to try and use the MMULIB. I guess I hadn't done things right before. I just was swapping out libraries that came with it and didn't work with the Apollo. Have installed the maprom feature from MMUlib but not sure how to implement it. The one command I read and added to startup-sequence breaks booting altogether. Had to comment it out. I had MuRom Protect On added and this doesn't allow me to boot with it in. I put it after setpatch.

Yes I have novacoders Sysspeed data and loaded the module. But I dunno how to run a report on mine for comparison and how to save yet. From what it looked like (this was a few days ago) his was kicking my ass with most results.

The Mips I get on a 3.1 card is about 62ish just above. On the 3.1.4 it was slower.

I get ya, need to take my time! I guess I'm just keen!

Only tried Doom Attack, nothing else really. Some WHD load games that's about it. Oh and Gloom, which really disappointed me speed wise with the 060.




Yes I am using the Apollo disk libraries for this card.

I have started to mess with MMUlib now though and according to the guides I had to patch setpatch (my version is 34.6), then get rid of the Apollo 68040 dummy library and install the MMU.library, and the 680x0.library and with this installed and setpatch modified (have to do this in 3.1 apparently) setpatch will now use the 680x0.library to find the 68060.library and identify the CPU. Or something like that.

Have not read what MuDrap is yet.

According to the MMULib docs, you don't have to patch the SetPatch, but you'd then have to keep the 68040.dummy library installed (as 68040.library of course). You obviously will have to copy over the 68060.library to Libs, and then rename your Apollo one to 68060.library.Apollo for safekeeping. mmu.library will need to be copied to Libs too, and that is your basic manual installation.

Your SetPatch isn't the standard 3.1 one so you can't patch it on your 3.1 setup, I have no idea where you got that one from with version level 34. The patching of the SetPatch is required only to have the correct CPU library loaded automatically depending on what the 680x0.library detects, so you needn't go this route if you don't want to as we know you have an 060. The normal Commodore SetPatch loads the 68040.library you see (which is the dummy library from your Apollo install disk in your case, or it would be a real 68040.library if you have a 68040 CPU card).

In your SysSpeed installation, there is a drawer called 'SysSpeedData' (you'll have to show all files from Workbench menu to see it), inside there there should be a drawer called 'module'. This is where you need to copy the module that you downloaded to.
When you run the program SysSpeed, go to the Preferences and then ModulePrefs or similar and there are four text boxes and each one can point towards a module. The top one i think allows you to name your own system for id purposes if you save a module, so pick Module 1 and click that box on the right to get a file requester up and load in the module into that slot and then you can press 'Save' and it will always appear when you load the program.
The foreign module will be in one of those columns, and yours is called 'You'. I get 106.31 MIPS and 42.51 MFLOPS.

Which version of Gloom are you having problems with? Should be silky smooth!

[rabidgerry]

I was acting upon this which is saying if it is not possible to upgrade to 3.9 then do this.

My setpatch is/was v43.6 sorry I made a mistake there.




So I got rid of the dummy library and installed the 680x0 library and performed this because it says V40 and below



then this



and this



so currently I still have the Apollo 68060.library installed and the 680x0 and then the MMU.library

@Daxb I think it is working ok yes. I did so far all what is above and made a new setpatch as instructed. I also did the installed of MMULIB. No idea how to use the tools though. Reading bits at a time.

I thought if I use MMULIB i no longer need remapollo? I have to use them together?

@Paul1981

I am using a hard disk install from original game disks. It's Gloom Deluxe. There are plenty of fancy modes and and none of them are great speed wise. Bog standard Gloom deluxe has the best speed (original Gloom might be faster but I don't use it) but still not what I have seen on videos on youtube. Also once upon a time I was able to use an alternative Chunky2plannar mode with the install but that has stopped working now. When I saw slow btw I'm obviously opting for full screen mode. I could get faster is I drop the screen size which I'm reluctant to do.

[rabidgerry]

oh and here is my module I made in sysspeed

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

My setpatch is/was v43.6 sorry I made a mistake there.

That version can't be patched, you need the original Commodore v40 version which came with OS3.1. But as I said before, it's not needed. You can keep the 68040.library dummy in Libs, use Thor's 68060.library in Libs instead of the Apollo one, copy over Thor's mmu.library to Libs and that's it, that's your basic installation (this method without the patched SetPatch doesn't need the 680x0.library). That's a starting point to check whether things are working right. If that works, we can get the ROM in FastRAM next.

Regarding Gloom, I'm sure I used to run Gloom Deluxe in full quality on my 040 so I know an 060 probably wouldn't notice it was running.

[daxb]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

so currently I still have the Apollo 68060.library installed and the 680x0 and then the MMU.library

This means that you use the Apollo 68060.library at the moment. You can try the 68060.library from MMULib package by rename the Apollo 68060.library and copy the MMULib 68060.library. You can switch the libraries just by renaming and rebooting. If it works I would recommend to use the MMULib CPU library instead of the Apollo one.

I thought if I use MMULIB i no longer need remapollo? I have to use them together?

First, you don't need MMULib or RemApollo but it is recommended (at least I would because of the advantages) to use them. The MMULib tools and RemApollo have similar functions but they are not (all) equal. So, you can use none, both of one of it. There is no exclusive or. It depends on what you want to use. I made good experiences with using both and proper installation/usage.

[daxb]

Originally Posted by paul1981

That version can't be patched, you need the original Commodore v40 version which came with OS3.1.

No, you can patch SetPatch 43.6. No need of V40 version. Try it and you will see it works. You can verify the patch by checking the version of the new patched SetPatch. It should be V43.7.

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by daxb

No, you can patch SetPatch 43.6. No need of V40 version. Try it and you will see it works. You can verify the patch by checking the version of the new patched SetPatch. It should be V43.7.

Maybe, it was years since I patched it. I just read the MMULib docs again yesterday and I thought that's what it said and so I repeated it.

@rabidgerry
Can you run WhichAmiga and post us the output? I want to make sure everything looks okay.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by paul1981

That version can't be patched, you need the original Commodore v40 version which came with OS3.1. But as I said before, it's not needed. You can keep the 68040.library dummy in Libs, use Thor's 68060.library in Libs instead of the Apollo one, copy over Thor's mmu.library to Libs and that's it, that's your basic installation (this method without the patched SetPatch doesn't need the 680x0.library). That's a starting point to check whether things are working right. If that works, we can get the ROM in FastRAM next.

Regarding Gloom, I'm sure I used to run Gloom Deluxe in full quality on my 040 so I know an 060 probably wouldn't notice it was running.

I obviously haven't a clue about this stuff hence needing everyones help, but I'm pretty sure I patched the setpatch as per the instructions that listed above.



The libraries I have are below, and I got rid of the dummy libraries in favour of the 680x0.library




I've only ever played Gloom using my 030 so I dunno what it would have looked like using a 040 to compare. May be it's just a slow game. Mind you I'm pretty sure someone has a video on youtube where it's mega fast looking. Mine is quickish, but didn't seem as quick as the video.

Originally Posted by daxb

This means that you use the Apollo 68060.library at the moment. You can try the 68060.library from MMULib package by rename the Apollo 68060.library and copy the MMULib 68060.library. You can switch the libraries just by renaming and rebooting. If it works I would recommend to use the MMULib CPU library instead of the Apollo one.

First, you don't need MMULib or RemApollo but it is recommended (at least I would because of the advantages) to use them. The MMULib tools and RemApollo have similar functions but they are not (all) equal. So, you can use none, both of one of it. There is no exclusive or. It depends on what you want to use. I made good experiences with using both and proper installation/usage.

Ok I will try swapping the apollo 68060 library for that one that came with MMULIB.

I thought I needed the MMULib.library for it all to work? At least that is what I thought I read?

So when can I start mapping roms? Also how will I be able to know if mapping has worked?

[rabidgerry]

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

The libraries I have are below, and I got rid of the dummy libraries in favour of the 680x0.library



Ok I will try swapping the apollo 68060 library for that one that came with MMULIB.

I thought I needed the MMULib.library for it all to work? At least that is what I thought I read?

So when can I start mapping roms? Also how will I be able to know if mapping has worked?

Rename the library you have there to 68060.library.apollo, and then just copy over the 68060.library from the MMULib package. Keep the mmu.library in Libs too, there is no need to delete it and I believe that MuFastRom requires it (which will put your ROM in FastRAM).
You can just double click that program icon MuFastRom whenever you like to test it, it's in the MuTools drawer, and if used in your startup-sequence there should be a copy in C:
You'll know it's worked because your computer will feel snappier.

You can do a before and after speed test if you use the 'kickspeed' CLI command from the QuickROM package: http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/QuickROM

Looking good on WhichAmiga output by the way. Hmmm.... I had no idea there was another version out with ACA getmhz check... What is that anyone? Why does the ACA need its own version?

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by paul1981

Rename the library you have there to 68060.library.apollo, and then just copy over the 68060.library from the MMULib package. Keep the mmu.library in Libs too, there is no need to delete it and I believe that MuFastRom requires it (which will put your ROM in FastRAM).
You can just double click that program icon MuFastRom whenever you like to test it, it's in the MuTools drawer, and if used in your startup-sequence there should be a copy in C:
You'll know it's worked because your computer will feel snappier.

You can do a before and after speed test if you use the 'kickspeed' CLI command from the QuickROM package: http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/QuickROM

Looking good on WhichAmiga output by the way. Hmmm.... I had no idea there was another version out with ACA getmhz check... What is that anyone? Why does the ACA need its own version?

Yes v1.3.3, I took it that this was because it didn't report ACA cards correctly or something detail related. Same way Sysinfo v4.3 has added ACA identity info for those boards. I could be wrong though.

Yup MMU.library already in there. Did that the same day I did the setpatch stuff. Once I did the setpatch patch I then used the MMUlib installer and and installed various tools. Not all of them but a number of them that might be useful (not that I really understand them or anything yet).

Ok I didn't mention that I already named the apollo library 68060.library.apollo. it worked ok. One thing I have noticed after doing a Sysinfo, I now get slower rate when I do drive test in sysinfo. It's below 1mb now. It's like 999,992 or something like that.

Don't I need to start doing stuff in my startup-sequence to use the tools?

This is why I was trying to work out how the hell Murom will know to do anything without me telling it to? And you are right when I double click it itself it does say rom already mapped. Can't I chose like a separate rom? Just out curiosity like from file?

Also the link to the package you posted, looks useful. But isn't that whats MuRom is doing? Adding rom to fast ram?

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Don't I need to start doing stuff in my startup-sequence to use the tools?

This is why I was trying to work out how the hell Murom will know to do anything without me telling it to? And you are right when I double click it itself it does say rom already mapped. Can't I chose like a separate rom? Just out curiosity like from file?

Also the link to the package you posted, looks useful. But isn't that whats MuRom is doing? Adding rom to fast ram?

Yes, QuickROM does that, so does running 'CPU FASTROM' from the CLI, but not in a Thor mmu.library compatible way, hence the mmulib tools are separate entities. If the ROM is already remapped, then perhaps when you installed the MMULib package it altered your startup-sequence and installed itself? MuMapROM will load a ROM image from a file, but I've never used it before so I can't comment.

[daxb]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

I thought I needed the MMULib.library for it all to work? At least that is what I thought I read?

mmu.library is the main library used by a lot of MuTools. So, yes it is needed. The 68060.library from MMULib package need it too.

So when can I start mapping roms? Also how will I be able to know if mapping has worked?

Don't confuse yourself by using all the programs at the same time. Use MuTools for mapping ROM or RemApollo. Not both. I recommend to us RemApollo because I got better results with my Apollo 1240 then MuTools but you need to decide yourself.

As mentioned a mapped ROM to fastram should make the overall system faster. Then you will have 512 kilobyte less fastram. If not mapped 512kb more fastram. MuScan (from MMULib) will print a memory map that will show that the ROM is mapped to fastram address. By accident it could be in chipram but that shouldn't happen. Then you can check with Scout if ROM stuff are located at fastram addresses. Another useful tools is bustest and maybe ApolloBusTest (never tried): http://aminet.net/search?query=bustest With bustest you will see fast- chip-ram and ROM speed. With ROM remapped fast- and ROM speed should be equal.

[rabidgerry]

Think I have been getting mixed up with MuFastRom and MuMapRom. So MuMapRom wasn't installed. Which one should I use? Or do I need them both?

[rabidgerry]

Just left MuMapRom for now.

And looked at the guide for MuFastRom. So I could be wrong but I am guessing it starts by itself by having the tool type set to "ON" in the icon. I messed around with setting it to "Off". When I set it to "Off" and double click it says MuFastRom is uninstalled.

I dunno if I need a startup-sequence line or not.

When I run the kickspeed test (I just double clicked it) it gives me the same result each time. I am currently trying it in WINUAE, perhaps it will be different on my Real Amiga.

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Just left MuMapRom for now.

And looked at the guide for MuFastRom. So I could be wrong but I am guessing it starts by itself by having the tool type set to "ON" in the icon. I messed around with setting it to "Off". When I set it to "Off" and double click it says MuFastRom is uninstalled.

I dunno if I need a startup-sequence line or not.

When I run the kickspeed test (I just double clicked it) it gives me the same result each time. I am currently trying it in WINUAE, perhaps it will be different on my Real Amiga.

Take a look at your startup-sequence again and if it did install itself you will see it there. From what you say it sounds like it's installed, or something else is mapping your ROM to FastRAM.
BTW, icon tooltypes for any program only work when the program is loaded via the Workbench icon, they do nothing for the program when loaded via the CLI or via the startup-sequence for example.