what's a good monitor for amiga emulation?

[starglider]

I'm new to Amiga emulation and am using WinUAE. But my good old CRT monitor is about to die and I will soon purchase a new one. I noticed TFT LCD monitors are the new thing, though, and was wondering if they were better than CRTs for emulative purposes (especially games).

Reading in another thread I saw something about 50 Hz and V-Sync for good scrolling in Amiga games. My current CRT handles 50 Hz (and up to 100 Hz) and even though it sometimes skips, I can live with it.

So my question is should I go for another CRT (quality ones seem hard to find these days) or just go with a TFT LCD (more expensive, sexier, and take up less room)? I just want a good monitor. If someone can recommend me, I would be thankful. Also, if you can recommend a particular model you've had experience with, that would be good too.

By the way, it has been a very nostalgic experience for me reading these forums, listening to mods and playing the games, so I thank the community for that.

[keropi]

bah, low-res graphics look crap on lcd's...
anything below 640x480 (and even this) will look crap....
that is why I have not migrated to lcd's yet...

[s2325]

Yes, LCD screen is too sharp for Amiga games, large pixels pop-up from screen.

[spiff]

And a good CRT isn't too sharp??? What crap CRTs have you guys been using?

For emulation I'd say the biggest problem with cheap LCDs is the loss of brightness when scrolling (ghosting). Any white pixel surrounded by darker ones will be gray unless you stand still.

It's usually not a problem with 3d games or natural images such as movies, gray to gray response times are good on todays LCDs. How ever emulation is a bit of a special case since we have huge sharp 4x4 pixels. Unless you prefer bilinear filtered resize, the softer edges helps a lot with scrolling.

[seuden]

Selecting a TFT LCD Monitor for Gaming, hopefully that helps a little.

[keropi]

for me the prob is not sharpness, I think s2325 used the wrong word here...
the prob is that lcd's have a native resolution that looks great, like 1024x768 or 1280x1024... in recent pc games that u can have those resolutions, there is no prob, but anything different from the above native resolution is blurry, looks badly interpolated and it lacks in quality... so low-res stuff like emulation looks crap...

[Retro-Nerd]

Try to get a 19" Yakumo or Samsung CRT monitor and forget TFT displays for emulation, Keropi is right.

[spiff]

Originally Posted by keropi

but anything different from the above native resolution is blurry, looks badly interpolated and it lacks in quality... so low-res stuff like emulation looks crap...

Um, no

You let you graphics card do the scaling and the monitor stays in native resolution (Driver level, display options)
Or you let the emulator do the scaling and the monitor stays in native resolution. (Software level)
The quality of this scaling is dependent on the software, not the built in rescaler.

Ok, this will fail if you're using emulators that write directly to the hardware like old DOS ones.. but I'm guessing we are mainly talking about winUAE?

[starglider]

now I'm a little confused. the last thing I want is to play emulated Amiga games which are blurry and/or jerky. Amiga games had silky smooth scrolling which separated them from PC/ST ones.

are you saying, Spiff, that I can use an LCD with WinUAE and not have these problems if I use certain settings?

[spiff]

No.. I got a bit carried away when I answered Keropi. You still will have problems with (most) LCDs not handling 50/100hz (super smooth scrolling) and possible ghosting, but sharpness won't be a problem. All in all CRTs are better for amiga emulation.

He basically said that LCD looks bad if you have low resolutions "is blurry, looks badly interpolated". This is true if you feed the screen a low resolution directly as in BIOS/ DOS, most older LCDs have cheap built in scalers.

My point was that this won't happen under windows/X if you let the gpu and/or emulator do the scaling, in fact UAE on my LCD is pretty much as sharp as it's gonna get since it scales 640>1280 1:2 and uses DVI.

[starglider]

man I don't want ghosting or even slightly jerky scrolling. that's not what the Amiga's about. So if I just buy an LCD with 50/100 hz I will be OK? what about this "5ms refresh rate"----is that a factor?

[spiff]

This is bordering on speculation since i haven't tried a lot of 50hz LCD screens

If a LCD handles 50 hz you still MAY have problem with ghosting at 5ms or even at 2.5 ms simply from the fact that responstimes are dependent on several factors and going from brown to blue will probably leave a minor ghosting trail (ie not black to white).

The thing is that going 100hz (on either CRT or LCD) will also create a sort of double update ghosting in winuae, and running 50hz on a CRT is not nice (kind of accurate for an amiga though)

This is where I speculate, in general CRT is more Amiga accurate, but is accurate better?

Any good CRT (if you can really find one today)
Will look great for amiga emulation with out anything but an install
Will have less problems with ghosting/smearing then most LCDs
Will almost certainly do 50hz, smooth scrolling (and flicker)
Will have a screen that is somewhat rounded at the edges (so does most amigas)

Any "not so cheap" LCD that does 50hz
Will look great for amiga emulation if you let the emulator do the scaling
Will possible have some ghosting/smearing at 50hz, if it's really that bad is a matter of opinion.
Will not flicker at 50hz, smooth as **** (but otoh amiga flickers)
Will have an absolutely flat image, great for documents and windows.

[turrican3]

i suggest a 21 " crt max 75 euro on ebay

[starglider]

thanks everyone for your responses. I bought an expensive, "professiona" LCD for the better constrast and refresh but I have to say I'm not happy. the colour's just not as good as CRT. now I wonder why the industry stopped making CRT to make LCD because I see no technical differences other than negative ones. I thin k they probably just invented LCD for monitors just to open a new market and make more money. *goes and cries to mummy*

[mtb]

If you are so unsatisfied i believe you could return it and get the $$ back.

[spiff]

Starglider, that's sad :/

try some basic calibration of the screen
http://www.bryce-alive.net/calibrate/

Then check some photos, if the color still is unnatural, exchange it for a CRT.
Don't use videos for comparing, most video overlay has separate color space/calibration.

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by starglider

thanks everyone for your responses. I bought an expensive, "professiona" LCD for the better constrast and refresh but I have to say I'm not happy. the colour's just not as good as CRT. now I wonder why the industry stopped making CRT to make LCD because I see no technical differences other than negative ones. I thin k they probably just invented LCD for monitors just to open a new market and make more money. *goes and cries to mummy*

I'm pretty surprised, that you bought a LCD without testing/viewing it. Yep, the LCD colors sucks, the contrast sometimes too. Only the sharpness in text is brilliant.

[DamienD]

Luckily I still have a 21" CRT that I won't part with and if I really want to I can connect to my 32" TV via S-Video / SCART connection from my laptop

LCDs suck

...until they make something that comes remotely close, well

*** yes, I'm an emulation freak ***