256 colors remap

[demolition]

I haven't tried Amikit before, but I think you have a program called FullPalette somewhere? I think maybe that could be used to redefine the palette.

Edit: I think pandy71 did the same with the image in post #61. I used Photoshop to insert the Rebel palette and remap the image to the remaining 240 indexes.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by demolition

I haven't tried Amikit before, but I think you have a program called FullPalette somewhere? I think maybe that could be used to redefine the palette.

Yes, I can use another palette, or even with imagestudio I can save the palette of your image and use that with FullPalette. Will that be enough?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Yes, I can use another palette, or even with imagestudio I can save the palette of your image and use that with FullPalette. Will that be enough?

I think that should do the trick, and then lock all the colors. The question is if there is some downside to locking all colors, but try it and see how it looks.

[Retrofan]

I'm sorry, I've tried but I'm not 100% sure if I'm doing it right. It should be someone like Cammy or Rebel_CD32 (both missed in action) who could try all these; but they never tried anything above 16 colors, as far as I know.

So, please if anyone knows how to/want to try...

[demolition]

I just tried FullPalette on my 1200 and it seems like you can load the palette straight from the IFF file: 'Load Palette' from the menu in FullPalette and point it to the background image. After this, the background looks perfect at least on my (real) 1200 in 256 color mode. The downside is that my icons now look bad since they were mapped to another palette and as I open new folders, the new icons being displayed look correct but they also change the palette, screwing up the perfect looking background image.

It must be possible to avoid the icons changing the palette when you need to use a multi-color background image.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by demolition

I just tried FullPalette on my 1200 and it seems like you can load the palette straight from the IFF file: 'Load Palette' from the menu in FullPalette and point it to the background image. After this, the background looks perfect at least on my (real) 1200 in 256 color mode. The downside is that my icons now look bad since they were mapped to another palette and as I open new folders, the new icons being displayed look correct but they also change the palette, screwing up the perfect looking background image.

It must be possible to avoid the icons changing the palette when you need to use a multi-color background image.

I don't get that "background looks perfect". Can you post a pic using the "Impr Pant" button, saving it with a paint program and upload a link?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

I don't get that "background looks perfect". Can you post a pic using the "Impr Pant" button, saving it with a paint program and upload a link?

You mean a screenshot of WB?
Here's how it looks on my A1200. I don't have SuperPlus installed, so it is running in 1024x768 instead with the background in tile mode.

[Retrofan]

The wallpaper looks better that way indeed

Edit:
I can archieve that (I think), but even the pointer changes color. Edit: No, now it's right, just tried with the WBPattern remapping (Exact precission/Gui precission/ and some others, and now it's right with everyone I try, so don't know what the problem was). But the problem I've got are extrange colors on some screens, like the buttons on FullPalette (black) -your's aren't ¿?¿?-, but no problem with the icons as you have, though -Btw, I'm using the icon.library xxx.300-:





But even if I can fix that (or I've done it wrong)... what happens now if I/you use another 256 colors Wallpaper?

Edit: I've got the black buttons because I use a different color for them (than you). I'm doing it right, the thing is that this changes colors that I don't want to change.

[pandy71]

my 2 cents:

first - all snapshots from Retrofan are between 130k and 150k colors - there is no way to map this in 256 colors, also such big number means that probably some filter (scanline emulation to have old retro look?) or something that modify pixels is used.

second - I use mostly free software - gimp, imagemagick, xnview, for gimp i use also some additional filters (Ximagic have shareware status), gimp is not particularly palette friendly (i think focused on true color) and this where xnview can be helpful as Ximagic accept color palette only in two formats - Paint Shop Pro (easy - txt file i've made them manually in notepad) or Adobe color palette (binary - not easy to do) - imagemagick is quite good but still not so friendly as some documentation is quite vague and need to be confronted with source (but anyway less painful than ffmpeg where syntax change almost regular base and without checking source code is almost impossible to do something beyond routine command line).

[demolition]

Originally Posted by pandy71

first - all snapshots from Retrofan are between 130k and 150k colors - there is no way to map this in 256 colors, also such big number means that probably some filter (scanline emulation to have old retro look?) or something that modify pixels is used.

Agree, there's some kind of glow on all text which indicates some sort of smoothing filter has been applied on the grabbed image.

@Retro: Try to use sgrab to make a screenshot. It's what I used on the 1200.
http://aminet.net/package/util/wb/sgrab

[Retrofan]

Yes I was using some filtering when resizing the photos after catching them with Imp Pant.

This is with SGrab, using the same palette charged with Fullpalette (same photo that my latest):

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2376/vo6g.png

With SGrab it doesn't look as good as it should. BTW yes, now the wallpaper is better using it's same palette... but I don't like that some colors have changed in buttons and so, so I preffer not to use it's palette.

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Yes I was using some filtering when resizing the photos after catching them with Imp Pant.

This is with SGrab, using the same palette charged with Fullpalette (same photo that my latest):

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2376/vo6g.png

With SGrab it doesn't look as good as it should. BTW yes, now the wallpaper is better using it's same palette... but I don't like that some colors have changed in buttons and so, so I preffer not to use it's palette.

Retrofan try this one:

[Retrofan]

Doesn't look very good. You can see in your own photo that it's "made with points". Using it's own palette on Fullpalette then all the letters change colors and you don't see anything.



Edit: Thinking now, your Riemersma conversion can be the best of all. This time I've made a photo with Imp Pant, then pasting to Paint, then selecting and uploading:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8184/tmv.png

What happens is that without filtering them to post here, the photos don't look as good as they are for real.

What program did you use to make it?
__________________

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Doesn't look very good. You can see in your own photo that it's "made with points". Using it's own palette on Fullpalette then all the letters change colors and you don't see anything.

Yes, dither is visible as palette is suboptimal from color quantization point of view but colors need to be shared with system and with picture.
Perhaps it can be improved by correct mapping (not sure how both palettes are populated - have no time to analyze this).

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Edit: Thinking now, your Riemersma conversion can be the best of all. This time I've made a photo with Imp Pant, then pasting to Paint, then selecting and uploading:

Riemersma is similar method to Floyd Steinberg or comparable error spread/ distribution method - simply i like it more than Floyd Steinberg as it can produce better from subjective point of view dither patterns.
Color quantization method was k-means, but in case where you provide external palette this is not valid - colors should be taken from palette and used to produce lowest possible error in terms of distance between color optimal and color available.

Originally Posted by Retrofan

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8184/tmv.png

What happens is that without filtering them to post here, the photos don't look as good as they are for real.

What program did you use to make it?
__________________

Still not optimal i think - optimal is when only fraction of colors is used by picture, dynamic colors (system one) should be not used as they can changed - still have problem - i don't know which part of index are used by system and which one not - best is to not use system index in picture.

Software used by me is gimp+ximagic plugin (you need also pspi plugin), to extract palette and some operation (conversion to Paint Shop Pro format) i use xnview - all above seem to be quite standard on typical PC where Adobe is not available.

[Retrofan]

If you are so kind, perhaps you could try with these images too:

This: http://www.startrekdesktopwallpaper....estkop_s.shtml

And with photos 3, 4 and 6 from here: http://eab.abime.net/812002-post1.html

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

If you are so kind, perhaps you could try with these images too:

http://www.startrekdesktopwallpaper....estkop_s.shtml

And with photos 3, 4 and 6 from here: http://eab.abime.net/812002-post1.html

OK, i will try in free moment - can you provide me snapshot from your system as previously but without any background ie non picture, one plain colour - as a lossless png file.

I'd played around with FullPalette but didn't succeed.



As one can see, the backdrop is crippled with dithering while same image in Multiview on same screen is displayed perfectly.

Looking at demolitions example with envy i tried this in CWB. It worked nicely.

The secret sauce is picture.datatype. v45.17 ruins the backdrop image. Older v 43 works quite well.

Hope this helps. Still there is a problem with palette entries that can't be ignored. One has to create a particular palette from each backdrop image in question. Easiest way to me is to save wallpaper as proper iff file and use FullPalette to load from it. Correct first 4 colors to meet standard or preferred setup. Lock all and save with name of wallpaper.

Have fun

Result for NCC1701B Flyby



Cool, aye?

The background image is in 64 colors

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by BigFan

The secret sauce is picture.datatype. v45.17 ruins the backdrop image. Older v 43 works quite well.

Thanks. That's interesting. Where did you get the picture.datatype v43, CWB? (Edit: No, CWB uses 45.17). Can you upload it?

Edit: I've tried with picture.datatype 43.26 (the one of Picasso96 on Aminet) and it doesn't open png images. Saving it as iff it opens it, but I don't see any improvement either.
Edit: Pandy71 I don't know if it's this what you want: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5682/n6mk.png

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Edit: Pandy71 I don't know if it's this what you want: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5682/n6mk.png

Yes - this one use 197 colors.