05 September 2018, 21:30 | #401 | ||
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05 September 2018, 21:33 | #402 |
son of 68k
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By definition hacks are not portable. Else they wouldn't be hacks.
No you did not tell anything and your sentence is insulting (as usual ?). |
05 September 2018, 21:52 | #403 |
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05 September 2018, 22:06 | #404 |
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That you can get all kinds of things to work with hacks is well known. Now the question is whether or not you can do an OS in portable C without any hacks and do it properly? I'm betting on no.
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05 September 2018, 22:17 | #405 |
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realistically you get a C compiler to do the heavy lifting..
e.g. gcc { register int sp asm ("sp"); printf("%x", sp); } Now thats going work on any CPU which the gnu assembler calls the stack pointer "sp".... which i bet is a probably a lot of them. They often have an alias for it.. Now its absolutely not standard C89/C99 etc. but its portable on the same compiler family. So split hairs about whether its real C etc. fine i dont care about that argument. i accept its not standard. And sure you get crapper/slower code etc. Compilers all do this different so you end up with hacks on a per compiler basis. But they all do this and you have hacks if you try and make portable assembler that works on all assemblers.. |
05 September 2018, 22:30 | #406 |
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So it can be done but it's not very useful. Who made a point out of this anyway? There doesn't seem to be much of a point
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05 September 2018, 22:34 | #407 | |
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There is pretty much ways to do all the assembly marshalling you need for an OS in C but they are compiler family specific. Which is absolutely fine by me. BTW: I compiled the above code on x86, ARM and 68K then i got bored. |
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05 September 2018, 22:42 | #408 |
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05 September 2018, 22:48 | #409 |
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I wrote a multi tasking OS in C, but yeah the context switches had to be asm. And a few other little things like atomic operations for locks etc.
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05 September 2018, 22:58 | #410 | ||
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But its wrong to say you cant do this stuff at all because the compiler writers do help you out a lot. Quote:
Anyways.. im so bored im going to watch Forrest Gump. |
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06 September 2018, 08:58 | #411 |
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06 September 2018, 09:11 | #412 | |
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You are entitled to that opinion. I knew would be your only way of defending the lack of knowledge you demonstrated here. It’s portable on all GCC compliers. VBCC uses slightly different syntax. All you’re pointing out is that C989/C99 doesn’t have a defined standard for it. It’s possible that future standards will. Like I say different assemblers use different syntax notation. There is no assembly standard so your argument is laughable |
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06 September 2018, 09:28 | #413 | |||
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Now of course several folks here pretend an OS can be fully written in portable C and even has been, but where is the source code showing this ? Quote:
It's your above sentence that's laughable. But anyway what was your point originally ? It was that the type of CPU does not matter. But as "portable" things require at least some amount of inefficient hack leading to code bloat, it's the proof that the CPU type actually *does* matter. Not wanting to be proven wrong, you attempted to redirect the discussion to something else. Nice try. |
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06 September 2018, 09:33 | #414 |
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You say I am unable to counter your argument? Ok you said you can’t make portable C that access registers. I posted a damn code example and you put your fingers in your ears and say “la la la.. I can’t hear!”
It’s actually now defined in the C11 spec. No matter what anyone says you will argue the opposite. And my point about the assembly was you have more hacks make an OS work on multiple assemblers on the same platform than multiple C compilers on different platforms. But that went to miles over your head. Really your level isn’t even worth engaging with anymore. |
06 September 2018, 09:45 | #415 | |||
son of 68k
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You're doing cherry-picking here, just finding a small, useless example where it remotely appears to work. Pityful. Try saying intelligent things. Quote:
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I have disassembled megabytes of code, often compiled, and ported several games from one computer to another without even having the source code. (Not only 68k, i did some 6502 too and would be doing x86 if it weren't so bad.) Of course copy protection had to be removed in the process. I have written whole utilities like picture viewer in 100% asm. I am using my own disassembler, my own debugger. And now it will be *my* lack of knowledge ? Especially from people who apparently do mainly - if not only - hardware ? This is very poor and very stupid. I really wish i could find a suitable reply to such aggressive nonsense other than clicking "report post". Sigh. (As it is obvious writing normal argumentation doesn't work.) |
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06 September 2018, 10:14 | #416 |
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For the sake of finishing this I will concede that I know nothing about computers. My bachelors degrees is electronics and my PhD in physics..
My issue is that you make sweeping statements that can be proven wrong very easily. Even by someone as stupid as me. You also have lied a couple of times here. Like when you claimed AmigaOS had the best interrupt latency. You are getting upset because people are calling out your sweeping generalisation and lies. Maybe/probably you have some facts further down the line that are worth talking about but we never get to them because you are so imprecise and sweeping with what you say that people get stuck on those. Finally when you fail with your arguments and get frustrated you are resorting to chest beating / “d$ck swinging” about your achievements. Seriously, talk about this stuff objectively and with facts and you will get better engagement and the respect you probably deserve deep down. I tried to tell you this ~100 posts ago. |
06 September 2018, 10:39 | #417 | |||||
son of 68k
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It's not me doing "sweeping statements". You're reversing the charge of the proof here. You can prove something exists by actually finding one and showing it. You can't objectively prove it doesn't exist. Quote:
I've never claimed AmigaOS had the best interrupt latency. Just that it had the best context switching speed of the systems i tested some years in the past - and i don't pretend having tested them all, so far not. Quote:
The worse i concede is this : you assert things without proof and i dismiss them without proof. Quote:
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This is impossible. The burden of the proof isn't on my side. |
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06 September 2018, 10:41 | #418 |
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So far i have seen :
- personal attacks - strawman fallacy - cherry picking - reversing the burden of the proof - abusive generalization I wonder what will come next ? EDIT: Forgot this one : - red herring |
06 September 2018, 10:44 | #419 |
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Ok I’m done. It’s pointless talking to someone with their fingers in their ears.
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06 September 2018, 10:56 | #420 |
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