Help me with my possibly unrealistic CDTV plans

[DonAmiga]

Have you seen this site? http://www.cdtv.org.uk/index.html

[CDTV1991]

Yes I have, but it seems that I wasn't looking hard enough!

I now see that the CDTV has ECS chipset and 1MB Chip RAM.

Do some Amiga games require more Chip/Fast RAM? It never seemed to be a concern back in the day when I had an A500+ and then an A1200.

[alexh]

AFAIR the CDTV is only half ECS. It has the ECS Agnus but not the ECS denise. Very cheap upgrade but I doubt you'd need it.

[CDTV1991]

Originally Posted by alexh

AFAIR the CDTV is only half ECS. It has the ECS Agnus but not the ECS denise. Very cheap upgrade but I doubt you'd need it.

OK, for now I'll see how it goes with the standard chipset, standard RAM and the HxC floppy emulator.

I posted this on the HxC forum:

"I'm hoping to buy a HxC (SD version) this week providing I can confirm a few points first:

I would like to mount the the HxC inside the CDTV box, so I won't see the LCD screen or be able to push the buttons. My aim would be to operate the HxC just from the CDTV controller (which acts like a normal mouse or joystick).

1) Can I navigate the "Host Control Tool" without a keyboard (all three buttons on the HxC). Can I navigate it from the CDTV's remote controller?

2) What sort of voltage or signal would it take to "operate" any of the three buttons? I am wondering if I could link one of the CDTV controller buttons (via the corresponding point on the CDTV board) to the select button on the HxC."

If I get a favourable answer from this I'll buy one.

[alexh]

Oh, and I just thought... you could always fit a wireless keyboard. The CDTV has a keyboard input. It will be a little bit expensive but possible.

You'll need a regular PS2 wireless keyboard

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Belkin-PS2-Wir...item3a63bd7bab

A PS2->Amiga keyboard adapter

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=228

Plus a home-made passive Amiga->CDTV re-wiring adapter to swap pins 2-3 (clock/data) and 1-4(power/ground).

http://www.titan.co.nz/Amigaak/AA060132.htm

Having a keyboard will come in handy for lots of other apps.

[CDTV1991]

I've ordered the HxC floppy emulator. Now I just need to buy an external floppy disc drive and a cheap floppy disc game just to test it.

It seems that selector software for the HxC does need a keyboard or use the buttons on the unit so I'll probably get the Lyra keyboard adapter. It is quite expensive at £30 though.

I'll ask if the HxC developer will try to add in a function to operate the HxC selector software from the CDTV remote.

Eventually I will mount it inside all inside the CDTV.

This new Amiga hardware is pretty expensive compared to today's mass market PC hardware. I suppose that is because its low volume, specialist and complex stuff. A bit like car parts I suppose.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by CDTV1991

I'll probably get the Lyra keyboard adapter.

I think I've got a CDTV keyboard somewhere (albeit with white keys) if you wanted one? £12 + postage

Originally Posted by CDTV1991

I'll ask if the HxC developer will try to add in a function to operate the HxC selector software from the CDTV remote.

He probably doesn't have a CDTV to test it with. Just ask for joystick control. That should be enough.

Originally Posted by CDTV1991

Eventually I will mount it inside all inside the CDTV

Spray the external floppy disk drive black and it won't look out of place on top.

[CDTV1991]

Originally Posted by alexh

I think I've got a CDTV keyboard somewhere (albeit with white keys) if you wanted one? £12 + postage

He probably doesn't have a CDTV to test it with. Just ask for joystick control. That should be enough.

Spray the external floppy disk drive black and it won't look out of place on top.

Thanks very much for the CDTV keyboard offer. I'll send you a message.

I asked for HxC joystick functionality rather than CDTV remote.

I'm treating this like a hardware project so I don't mind doing a bit of drilling and cutting. I got bored of PC desktop projects as my laptop and tablet just do their jobs fine.

[CDTV1991]

I'm waiting for my CDTV bits to arrive so today I tried to pull it apart to see what was inside. I even used some car scratch remover and polish to tidy it up, looks really good now. I couldn't get the main board out (more like couldn't be bothered to unplug every ribbon cable and undo the many many screws)

No surprises in the way of upgrades or mods inside but it was very clean inside, hardly any dust, which is strange for a 20 year old machine.

However the power cable for the case fan was not connected, this is probably why it is so clean.

I'm guessing that it was removed by someone to reduce noise.

Now I'm thinking whether the fan is necessary for "safe" running of the CDTV

It would be good to Keep it turned off as its quieter.

[Arnie]

Very interesting project, don't forget the pron pics

[CDTV1991]

I'll post pictures along the way, although I'm considering starting another thread in the hardware section. I'll also add costs and the place where the upgrade or part were bought from.

Plans are:

Floppy emulator mounted internally
Joystick and mouse ports

I intend to do a decent job of this as I can't see myself being able to justify the expenditure so at the least I want a really nice machine to show for the effort.

Future plans may, subject to cost, be some or even none of the following:

Extended ROMS
Kickstart ROM switcher
RAM upgrade
Joystick extension

I cant see a HDD upgrade being affordable

[alexh]

Just a shame that the IDE68K creator dropped his attempt to add 8Mbytes of DRAM to the interface.

[CDTV1991]

What does a chip ram upgrade "do"? Will it make the machine faster or it is necessary to run some games?

And the same question but for fast ram.

By installing 3.1 kickstart rom what will this enable my CDTV to do that it can't with it's 1.3 rom? I appreciate that it can never run full AGA games it it doesn't have the chipset.

Also where can I get a 68010?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by CDTV1991

What does a chip ram upgrade "do"?

Gives you more memory. Predominantly for larger screen resolutions etc.

Originally Posted by CDTV1991

Will it make the machine faster or it is necessary to run some games?

No and No (well maybe). Without Kickstart 3.1, more ChipRAM in a CDTV is pretty much useless. Not good value for money IMO. A fast RAM upgrade is what you want. And then only to run WHDload games from RAM disk.

Originally Posted by CDTV1991

And the same question but for fast ram.

Yes and Yes.

Originally Posted by CDTV1991

By installing 3.1 kickstart rom what will this enable my CDTV to do that it can't with it's 1.3 rom?

Use WHDload either from disc or HDD.

Originally Posted by CDTV1991

Also where can I get a 68010?

Pointless upgrade. Almost no improved CPU power and endless compatability problems. Forget about this one.

[CDTV1991]

Thanks for you excellent advice so far.

I understand the "more memory" thing from upgrading every PC I've ever owned, the benefit is obvious. However on the Amiga I won't be running applications, just games, so if having more of any type of memory will not be a real noticable benefit then as you say it doesn't seem worth it. Its also pretty expensive.

On the ROM front this also now seems to be of little benefit. With no inexpensive way of running WHDload on the CDTV from HDD then it doesn't seem worth the expense. Not much point in running it from a CD if I get the HxC floppy emulator running ok.

I've got a couple more questions:

Are there any worthwhile CPU upgrades (e.g. 68020) that wouldn't cause major incompatibility problems? I suppose the on real benefit for game use would be faster load times.

Would such a CPU upgrade need a ROM upgrade?

Would upgrading the CDTV's denise chip to the ECS version be a worthwhile (albeit cheap) upgrade? Any game benefit?

CDTV project costs so far:

-CDTV, caddy + controller £66 (inc. postage)
-CDTV compliation DVD (for testing purposes) £3
-AV cable and Scart Adapter £2.20
-HxC Floppy Emulator £74 ouch!
-D-Sub sockets and cable £3.34
-40 pin IC sockets £3.50
-Amiga external floppy drive £10 (inc. postage)

Pointless tat bought from eBay:

-Sticker case badges of startup screens from 1.3 and 2.04 kickstart (they just look nice) £7
-Deluxe Paint III boxed £4 (for external floppy drive testing)
-Amiga 500 set of 5 replacement chips (not CPU or Angus) £4.50

Other stuff I already have:

"The Bug" joystick, which was my favourite back in the day

I'm not looking forward to cutting some tidy holes through the CDTV case. I only have building tools and my patience is limited!

[alexh]

Following a HxC floppy drive emulator purchase; The upgrades IMO should be :

1. Kickstart + Extended ROM upgrade
2. Hard drive interface
3. Fast RAM

Killer is you need all three for any benefit.

There are no "value for money" CPU upgrades for CDTV.

I suppose the only real benefit for game use would be faster load times.

AFAIK a faster CPU will not affect load times using HxC. The HxC is limted by the maximum data rate of the Floppy disk interface. A faster CPU will only affect the speed of loading via a hard drive interface.

Not worth upgrading Denise chip. You would be able to run one or two ECS demos. Nothing else.

I'm not looking forward to cutting some tidy holes through the CDTV case. I only have building tools and my patience is limited!

What for?? I thought you'd agreed that you don't need to cut the CDTV case?

[CDTV1991]

I want to mount the HxC inside the CDTV, with the SD card accessible from the rear.

I'm also adding joystick and mouse ports

Hence cutting.

I suppose I need to take stock of what I'm trying to achieve here. Its really just a good A500 compatible machine in a nice CDTV case with a few modern takes on storage.

[alexh]

Use the expansion port slot?? That way no cutting. You should be able to line up the HxC and mount the joystick ports alongside? Maybe not?

[CDTV1991]

Originally Posted by alexh

Use the expansion port slot?? That way no cutting. You should be able to line up the HxC and mount the joystick ports alongside? Maybe not?

I was hoping to do it that way but wanted to see how much space I need behind the expansion port.

I've now received my floppy drive and deluxe paint III disks. Disk drive works ok so I've pulled it apart to extract the floppy interface, cable, power lead and data cable. These are much smaller than I hoped so it will fit in no problem. I've taken some photos and will post later

It will be a while until The HxC arrives so I'll make a start on the joystick and mouse ports when the rest of the parts arrive soon.

When testing the floppy drive with deluxe paint the available ram was around 800,000 and then around 400,000 when the program was running. I assume this is KB and is chip RAM! As long as I can run A500 games then memory is not much of a concern.

[Hewitson]

The 68010 upgrade is definitely not pointless if you do end up going the WHDLoad route. You need at least a 68010 to be able to quit the majority of games.