Expanding A4000D

merlinkv · 22 July 2010, 11:03

I'm waiting my "new" A4000D and I´ve some questions...

The system I´m waiting......

A4000D, S-Buster 11, 2 HD Floppys, 16MB
Cyberstorm MKII 060/50 128MB
Cyberstorm MKII SCSI Module with external adapter
Indivision AGA 4000/CD32
Mediator 4000Di
FastATA MK-V Z3
DENEB USB Z3 with NIC USB Adapter
ATI Radeon 9250 PCI 256MB (3.3v/5v)
ABIT ForteMedia PCI Audio
ATX PSU 500w & Adapter cable with switch. (I have the instructions for modding the PSU to put inside the original A4000 PSU case)

I have thought to install several internal fans (two or three Zalman I have).

But, of course, I would be grateful very much for any suggestion.

Cheers

alexh · 22 July 2010, 11:25

Kickstart 3.9?

merlinkv · 22 July 2010, 11:27

ROM´s are 3.1 I need other ones?

My idea is to install OS 3.9 BB3.

alexh · 22 July 2010, 11:35

I'm not 100% sure you need KS3.9 with a Deneb. I think that the OS3.9 ROM updates can live in the FlashROM on the Deneb card. You should do a bit of research to see if that is true.

FYI:

You cannot buy KS3.9 ROMs you have to make them yourself. They are KS3.1 with the "ROM updates" contained in Amiga OS3.9 (plus any other patches you want to apply).

You need to use the programs ROMsplit & Remus from Doobrey

http://www.doobreynet.co.uk/beta/index.html

Immediate benefits of KS3.9 are :

no-reboot on power-up (i.e. booting is faster from cold)
no problem with big disks

If you were to play around more with adding and removing modules from your ROM you could almost certainly add functionality such as booting from CD etc.

merlinkv · 22 July 2010, 12:00

As I read it´s possible to "flash" the Deneb with KS39. But I need to read carefully about that.

About big HDD´s...... From Elbox site:

"Fully compatible with HDDs > 128GB
Limitations on support for > 128GB HDDs have been
eliminated in the FastATA 4000 controller. The LBA 48 addressing support is included in the onboard BootROM."

This is true?

Also I read about a program "Luciferin" used to flash&programming the DENEB and other boards. You know about that?

Thanks for the Doobrey´s link

alexh · 22 July 2010, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinkv

This is true?

No idea. I was of course talking about KS3.9 allowing booting from big hard drives / partitions using the A4000 motherboard IDE interface.

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinkv

Also I read about a program "Luciferin" used to flash&programming the DENEB. You know about that?

That is the tool used to program E3B FlashROM products. I believe you need to first use Doobrey's tools to extract the modules from OS3.9 BB2 ROMUpdates and then program them into the Deneb Flash using Luciferin.

http://www.platon42.de/files/usb/Luciferin.readme

merlinkv · 22 July 2010, 12:25

Thanks a lot

Do you know about any tutorial to make self-made KS3.9´s?

Also,,,I'm a registered user of Amiga Forever 2010 and have one original 3.9 CD. With this, it´s possible to make one KS39?

alexh · 22 July 2010, 12:30

Yes. But you will also need the Boing Bag 2 update.

http://os.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=12

merlinkv · 22 July 2010, 12:35

I´ve BB2, BB2 Contribution & BB3 updates.

And.... about the tutorial?

alexh · 22 July 2010, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinkv

I´ve BB2, BB2 Contribution & BB3 updates.

Only BB2 has a ROM Update

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinkv

And.... about the tutorial?

AFAIK there isn't one. Make one

Just search here and over at Amiga.org and you'll find lots of snippets of information about Deneb, Luciferin, ROMSplit, Remus, ROMUpdates etc. and you'll be able to put them all together to make your system work.

Zetr0 · 22 July 2010, 13:01

@merlinkv

You have CyberSCSI2 and a DENEB, you dont need (or want to be slowed down by) the Fast ATA A4000.

I would pretty much find another home for that or sell it on.

With the DENEB you can even boot from USB Mass Storage devices if you really want to, but I would suggest a Fast 31.8GB+ SCSI disk on the CycberSCSI 2 and you wont look back on IDE for booting.

good luck on your project and remember to take lots and lots of pics!

merlinkv · 22 July 2010, 14:35

@Alexh

I search for information and If I´ve time, of course, I make a tutorial.

@Zetr0

Thanks for the information.

But SCSI HDD´s are too expensive (for me now), and I´ve a "big sotck" of IDE&SATA HDD´s from 40GB to 1TB sizes

I´m planning to install two HDD´s. First 120GB, second 400GB (they are IDE)....

About the DVD-RW's. I have two IDE units with IDE-to-SCSI-II adapters, tested with one 1230 SCSI Kit. I´m planning to install in one external "box".

I want DENEB for FlashROM possibilities (I know now), card reader, printer, HDD´s and NIC adapter.

I don´t know but MK-V are Z3 DMA, right? This not overload the CPU?

I have lot of ideas now, but when I receive the "complet system" I take a decission.

Of course, I share pics about all boards/jobs and system working.

Cheers

alexh · 22 July 2010, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinkv

MK-V are Z3 DMA, right?

No. Just regular Z3.

Zetr0 · 22 July 2010, 15:03

well I am pretty sure that the Fast ATA 4000 is PIO only - as such that will hammer the CPU, I did just double check amiga.resource and amiga-hardware and although neither say that they are NOT DMA they didin't state that they ARE DMA either.

I could be wrong but I would err on the side of caution and say they are not DMA devices just Z3 - again I could be wrong..

SCSI disk can be expensive - being in spain it can be difficult to obtain what you need when compared to a more saturated centralized europe =(

18.1GB LVD/SE SCSI3 for 13euros (includes shipping to spain)

I think that with a bit of luck you could get a 36GB compatible SCSI disk for 20 euros (have a look here)

To be honest, I am a little shockedat some of the internal postage prices quoted for spain, it might be financially viable to grab it from ebay international.

I beleive that the DENEB is a DMA master - as such (once setup) you could attach a Harddisk via a USB interface and boot from that... as it handles true UDMA for harddisks and is a Z3 DMA controller - its throughput should easily match if not rival the CyberSCSI 2 on the CSMk2

alimento para el pensamiento my friend =)

Toni Wilen · 22 July 2010, 15:19

Unfortunately all Amiga IDE controllers are PIO-only.

merlinkv · 22 July 2010, 15:49

Thanks to all.

I checked and MK-V is a Z3, PIO 4 not DMA

Well, I store on my desk and maybe put on the "market".

More questions....

CSMKII SCSI have one internal 50 pin & one High density external 50 pin. So, I think I need two adapters 50-to-68, high byte terminated, right?

After regarding prices on my country I thinking to buy two SCSI HDD's.

Thanks again to all

Zetr0 · 22 July 2010, 16:41

@merlinkv

(dont forget them pictures =D)

now the CSMk2 has / is a terminator with the aditional unit. that gets screwed to the back of the A4000

Internally I have an 18.1GB SCSI3 U2W 68pin unit - the Cybrscsi.device handles it quite well indeed - although I needed a 50pin to 68pin adapter and the Hardisk set to SE (Single Ended) mode.

heres the 50pin to 68 pin adapter I used (aprx 3.50 euros inc postage) -

as mine is sca68 pin I used a 68pin cable from the adapter into the device and it works perfectly fine - I did set the jumpers on the Harddisk and NOT the adapter.

Pending on the drives connection (SCA80 or SCA68) you MAY need change the jumper settings - there are also other adapters that are a direct 50 - 68 or 50 to 80 etc so have a look around there only for a couple of euros.

If you get stuck post it here or hit me up on PM I have a ton of SCSI connectivity stuff that I could help you out with.

merlinkv · 22 July 2010, 20:10

@Zetr0

This is a SCA 80 to 68/50...

So, You're connected like this...

Cable from CSMKII 50 M => standard cable 50 F-F => Adapter 50-M => Cable 68 M-M => Adapter 68 F

That's right?

Why not one like this...

http://cgi.ebay.es/SCSI-68-Pin-Male-...item2a03618cff

68-M => 50-M

Also I see 80-M => 50-M

The one of your pic is like two adapters in one?

What is the best solution?

What it's the maximum size of SCA 68 or 80 HDD's to work fine on CSMKII?

I see a good pair of HDD's 68 72GB each at good price......

Zetr0 · 23 July 2010, 00:00

the best solution my friend is one that costs less and provides you with the conectivity you need.

the reason I didn't use the one you linked is because I dont have one of them... but I have about 4 of the ones I linked, plus about 10 of the 68-80 converters LOL.

When buying Harddisk, always make sure that they support LVD/SE SCSI - usually I poke the serial number of the drive into google and see what that brings - remeber if in doubt get confirmation or walk away and try again later - or else you could be sitting on a lot of useless disks.

A while back I took a stab in the dark and bought 10x 9.1 GB SCSI disks for £20... they were labled as SCSI 2/3 devices but they turned out to be HDV not LDV/SE so they are pretty much useless unless you are running a HP SCSI Array!

merlinkv · 23 July 2010, 07:48

@Zetr0

OK, Zetr0, thanks again.

For now, I wait to make a decision.

When I receive the whole system I need first to test everything, then I will continue expanding.

I check on my "stock" and I have some 18.1 SCSI SCA68 LVD/SE but are hot and noise HDD´s..... Maybe they are old and I need to buy "new" ones.

Really, I appreciate very much your recommendations

Cheers

22 July 2010, 11:03	#1
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	Expanding A4000D I'm waiting my "new" A4000D and I´ve some questions... The system I´m waiting...... A4000D, S-Buster 11, 2 HD Floppys, 16MB Cyberstorm MKII 060/50 128MB Cyberstorm MKII SCSI Module with external adapter Indivision AGA 4000/CD32 Mediator 4000Di FastATA MK-V Z3 DENEB USB Z3 with NIC USB Adapter ATI Radeon 9250 PCI 256MB (3.3v/5v) ABIT ForteMedia PCI Audio ATX PSU 500w & Adapter cable with switch. (I have the instructions for modding the PSU to put inside the original A4000 PSU case) I have thought to install several internal fans (two or three Zalman I have). But, of course, I would be grateful very much for any suggestion. Cheers

22 July 2010, 11:35	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,335	I'm not 100% sure you need KS3.9 with a Deneb. I think that the OS3.9 ROM updates can live in the FlashROM on the Deneb card. You should do a bit of research to see if that is true. FYI: You cannot buy KS3.9 ROMs you have to make them yourself. They are KS3.1 with the "ROM updates" contained in Amiga OS3.9 (plus any other patches you want to apply). You need to use the programs ROMsplit & Remus from Doobrey http://www.doobreynet.co.uk/beta/index.html Immediate benefits of KS3.9 are : no-reboot on power-up (i.e. booting is faster from cold) no problem with big disks If you were to play around more with adding and removing modules from your ROM you could almost certainly add functionality such as booting from CD etc.

22 July 2010, 14:35	#12
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	@Alexh I search for information and If I´ve time, of course, I make a tutorial. @Zetr0 Thanks for the information. But SCSI HDD´s are too expensive (for me now), and I´ve a "big sotck" of IDE&SATA HDD´s from 40GB to 1TB sizes I´m planning to install two HDD´s. First 120GB, second 400GB (they are IDE).... About the DVD-RW's. I have two IDE units with IDE-to-SCSI-II adapters, tested with one 1230 SCSI Kit. I´m planning to install in one external "box". I want DENEB for FlashROM possibilities (I know now), card reader, printer, HDD´s and NIC adapter. I don´t know but MK-V are Z3 DMA, right? This not overload the CPU? I have lot of ideas now, but when I receive the "complet system" I take a decission. Of course, I share pics about all boards/jobs and system working. Cheers Last edited by merlinkv; 22 July 2010 at 15:28.

22 July 2010, 20:10	#18
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	@Zetr0 This is a SCA 80 to 68/50... So, You're connected like this... Cable from CSMKII 50 M => standard cable 50 F-F => Adapter 50-M => Cable 68 M-M => Adapter 68 F That's right? Why not one like this... http://cgi.ebay.es/SCSI-68-Pin-Male-...item2a03618cff 68-M => 50-M Also I see 80-M => 50-M The one of your pic is like two adapters in one? What is the best solution? What it's the maximum size of SCA 68 or 80 HDD's to work fine on CSMKII? I see a good pair of HDD's 68 72GB each at good price...... Last edited by merlinkv; 22 July 2010 at 22:32.

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22 July 2010, 11:25	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,335	Kickstart 3.9?

22 July 2010, 11:27	#3
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	ROM´s are 3.1 I need other ones? My idea is to install OS 3.9 BB3.

22 July 2010, 12:00	#5
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	As I read it´s possible to "flash" the Deneb with KS39. But I need to read carefully about that. About big HDD´s...... From Elbox site: "Fully compatible with HDDs > 128GB Limitations on support for > 128GB HDDs have been eliminated in the FastATA 4000 controller. The LBA 48 addressing support is included in the onboard BootROM." This is true? Also I read about a program "Luciferin" used to flash&programming the DENEB and other boards. You know about that? Thanks for the Doobrey´s link

22 July 2010, 12:25	#7
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	Thanks a lot Do you know about any tutorial to make self-made KS3.9´s? Also,,,I'm a registered user of Amiga Forever 2010 and have one original 3.9 CD. With this, it´s possible to make one KS39?

22 July 2010, 12:30	#8
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,335	Yes. But you will also need the Boing Bag 2 update. http://os.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=12

22 July 2010, 12:35	#9
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	I´ve BB2, BB2 Contribution & BB3 updates. And.... about the tutorial?

22 July 2010, 13:01	#11
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@merlinkv You have CyberSCSI2 and a DENEB, you dont need (or want to be slowed down by) the Fast ATA A4000. I would pretty much find another home for that or sell it on. With the DENEB you can even boot from USB Mass Storage devices if you really want to, but I would suggest a Fast 31.8GB+ SCSI disk on the CycberSCSI 2 and you wont look back on IDE for booting. good luck on your project and remember to take lots and lots of pics!

22 July 2010, 15:03	#14
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	well I am pretty sure that the Fast ATA 4000 is PIO only - as such that will hammer the CPU, I did just double check amiga.resource and amiga-hardware and although neither say that they are NOT DMA they didin't state that they ARE DMA either. I could be wrong but I would err on the side of caution and say they are not DMA devices just Z3 - again I could be wrong.. SCSI disk can be expensive - being in spain it can be difficult to obtain what you need when compared to a more saturated centralized europe =( 18.1GB LVD/SE SCSI3 for 13euros (includes shipping to spain) I think that with a bit of luck you could get a 36GB compatible SCSI disk for 20 euros (have a look here) To be honest, I am a little shockedat some of the internal postage prices quoted for spain, it might be financially viable to grab it from ebay international. I beleive that the DENEB is a DMA master - as such (once setup) you could attach a Harddisk via a USB interface and boot from that... as it handles true UDMA for harddisks and is a Z3 DMA controller - its throughput should easily match if not rival the CyberSCSI 2 on the CSMk2 alimento para el pensamiento my friend =)

22 July 2010, 15:19	#15
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	Unfortunately all Amiga IDE controllers are PIO-only.

22 July 2010, 15:49	#16
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	Thanks to all. I checked and MK-V is a Z3, PIO 4 not DMA Well, I store on my desk and maybe put on the "market". More questions.... CSMKII SCSI have one internal 50 pin & one High density external 50 pin. So, I think I need two adapters 50-to-68, high byte terminated, right? After regarding prices on my country I thinking to buy two SCSI HDD's. Thanks again to all

22 July 2010, 16:41	#17
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@merlinkv (dont forget them pictures =D) now the CSMk2 has / is a terminator with the aditional unit. that gets screwed to the back of the A4000 Internally I have an 18.1GB SCSI3 U2W 68pin unit - the Cybrscsi.device handles it quite well indeed - although I needed a 50pin to 68pin adapter and the Hardisk set to SE (Single Ended) mode. heres the 50pin to 68 pin adapter I used (aprx 3.50 euros inc postage) - as mine is sca68 pin I used a 68pin cable from the adapter into the device and it works perfectly fine - I did set the jumpers on the Harddisk and NOT the adapter. Pending on the drives connection (SCA80 or SCA68) you MAY need change the jumper settings - there are also other adapters that are a direct 50 - 68 or 50 to 80 etc so have a look around there only for a couple of euros. If you get stuck post it here or hit me up on PM I have a ton of SCSI connectivity stuff that I could help you out with.

23 July 2010, 00:00	#19
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	the best solution my friend is one that costs less and provides you with the conectivity you need. the reason I didn't use the one you linked is because I dont have one of them... but I have about 4 of the ones I linked, plus about 10 of the 68-80 converters LOL. When buying Harddisk, always make sure that they support LVD/SE SCSI - usually I poke the serial number of the drive into google and see what that brings - remeber if in doubt get confirmation or walk away and try again later - or else you could be sitting on a lot of useless disks. A while back I took a stab in the dark and bought 10x 9.1 GB SCSI disks for £20... they were labled as SCSI 2/3 devices but they turned out to be HDV not LDV/SE so they are pretty much useless unless you are running a HP SCSI Array!

23 July 2010, 07:48	#20
merlinkv Amiga user since 1989 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Spain Age: 60 Posts: 119	@Zetr0 OK, Zetr0, thanks again. For now, I wait to make a decision. When I receive the whole system I need first to test everything, then I will continue expanding. I check on my "stock" and I have some 18.1 SCSI SCA68 LVD/SE but are hot and noise HDD´s..... Maybe they are old and I need to buy "new" ones. Really, I appreciate very much your recommendations Cheers

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