AmiGameDev Poll

[Umpal]

Hello Amiga fans,

On another forum we're having a hot conversation about what basic hardware Amiga game developers should aim at. We're talking about professional products, not casual small games or made in an editor. Because we'd like to know what Amiga gamers' preferences are we ran a serie of polls. If you'd be so kind and give a vote here it would be a great knowledge base for any Amiga game developer now and in the future.

So there will be three polls in total. The first one is divided between two general configs:

1. Expanded Amiga
2. 1 MB RAM Amiga

Ad.1. Expanded means any 68000 with higher CPU clock, like 25MHz and up or 68020+, plus Fast RAM and an HDD and OCS or AGA original chipset, not RTG. Today we have a lot of fantastic accelerator cards like ACA, HC533, Wicher - just to mention some of them. But basically there are no new games for such expanded Amigas and if you'd wish to see something dedicated to at least that configuration this is your vote.

Ad.2. 1 MB RAM. This basically refers to a classic configuration like A500 was back in the day. Doesn't matter if it's 0.5 MB Chip + 0.5 MB Slow or 1 MB Chip - just 1 MB of RAM in total and base 68000 7MHz. If you're a "purist" and would like to see games only for this config then this is your vote.

The next poll will be dedicated only for expanded Amigas and the third for both categories.

[Epo]

Thanks for the votes given so far. But to be honest it's disappointing to see so many views but so few clicks. I bet you guys are interested in new games so why not make a one second click and give a vote?
Also, your suggestions and desires are always welcome here, there is no need to keep this topic quiet

[Amiga4000]

There are many great 1 M/B games (think Kid Chaos graphics for example) and I would love to see more. However, since AGA is grouped into this initial poll, I voted to go the expanded route.

[Leandro Jardim]

I voted for 1 MB games because they mean simpler graphics and sounds, which means they're easier to code and so more people could be interested in making games for the Amiga.

I think the Amiga scene can lose teams that want to make new Amiga games if the scene becomes very demanding with the new games.

Amiga users on the Internet are known to be very picky and critical of teams that had the hard work of making games for it.

Cases like that have been commented previously in other threads, but I can't remember where.

[Epo]

I understand your worries Leo because they have bases. However there are couple of devs that want to make some more demanding games but first we'd like to see how it displays on the gamers' preferences. We can read between lines but it's always better if Amiga users show it in votes.

Personally I agree that making games for 1 MB is much easier (but not easy as someone could think). But, as I mentioned, some devs want to make use of those accelerated cards based on 68000 with higher clock and the Fast RAM. Of course many expanded Amigas are A500's and A2000 with old Agnus chip preventing easy Chip memory upgrade so in that case they think 1 MB Chip should be considered as a base and 2 MB should have optionally more graphic animation, music and sound.

And I think we don't have to worry about loosing teams because 'the scene becomes demanding'. If someone wants to leave he'll do it anyway. What really will make them leave is poor sale and lack of support. That's the other aspect we spoke about. We can demand but also we should show it by expressing gratitude. Amiga market is ridiculously small so only active support can make it grow (I wish we had it like C64 or other similar retromarkets). We buy a lot of expensive hardware for our Amigas so why not dedicate just fraction of this money to support devs trying to make better games? I know part of us is doing it but not as many as it's necessary to attract devs and motivate them.

[Leandro Jardim]

I agree with your point of view too.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Epo

Personally I agree that making games for 1 MB is much easier (but not easy as someone could think).

Hmm, no...

I'd say it's easier off course to make a game for an expanded Amiga, where you don't need to count every byte and cycle to get something done. Have a look at those Backbone games for instance.

The point is, though:
It's a lot more difficult to make a game, that instead of just making your life as a coder more easy really takes a noticable advantage of these expansions.

Means, what kind of audiovisual fidelity do people and you as a coder expect of a 68030 OCS/AGA game that they and you don't get with a vanilla A500 or A1200 config?

[Leandro Jardim]

Originally Posted by Steril707

I'd say it's easier off course to make a game for an expanded Amiga, where you don't need to count every byte and cycle to get something done. Have a look at those Backbone games for instance.

This is also a valid point of view.

Backbone games and other game authoring tools take huge advantage of expanded Amigas of course, but Backbone is meant for teams which don't necessarily have professional coders and graphic artists at their disposal, and cases like this, creating games for non-expanded machines is easier, because the games can have simpler graphics and visual effects.

There is a chance that several teams could start making new games that only run right on WinUAE, wanting to speed up the development process, a little like those various SDL games coded in the past.

[malko]

Originally Posted by Leandro Jardim

[...] because the games can have simpler graphics and visual effects.[...]

Reminds me another discussion between C64 & Amiga...
<put any computer name here> VS <put another computer name here>, but always the same argumentation...
Nothing is simple, or it is if you are talented...

[Gzegzolka]

Both options, as long as game is good

[Leandro Jardim]

Originally Posted by malko

Reminds me another discussion between C64 & Amiga...

Thanks for pointing out. It's better to stop now.

[Epo]

Originally Posted by Steril707

Hmm, no...

I'd say it's easier off course to make a game for an expanded Amiga, where you don't need to count every byte and cycle to get something done. Have a look at those Backbone games for instance.

Agree but only if the coder is a lazy coder. It's very tempting to be satisfied with something that works OK on a 020@28MHz, 030@50MHz or even higher, leaving behind a significant group of slower CPUs active owners. And that's something that Amiga coders should avoid (in my opinion). This computer has beautiful hardware and we should try the best to show it off. No matter what configuration we program on the best possible optimization should be always the goal. This is what distinguished old master programmers and what we should take as an example to follow. As to the counting every byte and cycle... You should see my face when I managed to free 4.9kB after optimization - pure madness and pure joy

The point is, though:
It's a lot more difficult to make a game, that instead of just making your life as a coder more easy really takes a noticable advantage of these expansions.

Again agree. But I think that's the point: to always try to reach the next level and achieve the best possible . Some will never care, some will only try and only a few will get there. That's the beauty of programming on old computers

@Backbone productions. I don't like them personally. However I totally understand people who do not know programming and this is the only option for them. They desire to create and they do the best possible in these circumstances. Unfortunately for us all there is no decent game editor. Maye it will change some day but until then, well...

Originally Posted by Gzegzolka

Both options, as long as game is good

Couldn't agree more

I voted expanded - I suspect almost all active Amiga users in 2018 have either an AGA machine (they all have 2mb+) or at least one expanded ECS Amiga. For anyone who doesn't there is always WinUAE.

Having said that I'm can see that having an odd high quality 1mb game such as Worthy produced each year or two may encourage a few people to get their old basic systems out from the loft and fire them up again. At that point they may consider an upgrade if other quality games that need more ram etc are being produced.

So not a lot of change since I commented; looking back at it there is a group I totally forgot ... the Amiga Gamers who never use an Amiga for anything else. Back in the day this was a very big group, no idea how big now. Perhaps there has been a pole on this too recently?

Hopefully most of that group today (unlike in the mid 90's) are willing and able to upgrade from the Vanilla A500 1mb setup (if they haven't already) when they see new games that need it. Although 8mb upgrades appear very common now, even 2mb (1 chip) would give developers more breathing space.

Be really good to see a few more votes on this poll, I'm not sure how helpful a poll with less than 60 votes really is for developers (I suppose its at least some indication of what people think).

Looking forward to seeing quality new games whatever the requirements (WinUAE for me if its 060). :-)

[saimon69]

Personally would love to see games that runs in 1 megabyte RAM (or two if AGA) but Hard Disk installable so that can be more deep that simply disk swapping - or maybe even CD size. Mass memory constraints prevented devs in the past to do things comparable to console games and now with things like Gotek or flash drives those limits seems passed.

[jediknight]

battlefield v please.

[robinsonb5]

I voted for expanded - but I'd like to see games (and demos, for that matter) that are still designed around the Amiga's unique hardware. As soon as the extra horsepower on an expanded machine is used for chunky to planar conversion and the Amiga's hardware's relegated to being a second-rate framebuffer I lose interest; if you just want a framebuffer then use a PC!

[Umpal]

@Simon - don't you think it's contradictory? You'd see 1MB game on HDD but not using extra memory? I respect your opinion but it sounds a bit ridiculous. 1MB (or 2 in case of A1200) sounds like an orthodox so in that case logically it should be on a floppy disk only for full experience

@jediknight - gather $100k and you'll have it

@robinsonb5 - you have my thumb up. Personally I also see programming on unique Amiga's hardware only, otherwise it makes no sense to me for the reasons you presented. This approach depends of course on individual programmer but Amiga games should emphasize it's uniqueness

[rothers]

I really like games coded for the 1MB system. There is just a sort of warm fuzzy feeling knowing it will run on hardware from 1985. That's part of the challenge for me and why I like coding on an A500.

[roondar]

I like the idea of new games for base configurations (or in the case of the A500/A1000 expanded to 1MB as these were so common). More so if these games can also run/be installed on the higher end systems.

But floppy is fine too