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Old 01 March 2017, 04:35   #1
VJDan
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Genlock GVP G-Lock PAL to NTSC

Hi! Glad to be in this forum!

Sorry if iI write somehow "cold", english is not my natural language!

I'm having troubles with some artistic setup i'm doing:

I use an Amiga Genlock (G-Lock) connected to other hardware (Mixers, V Synths, etc) for doing abstract imagery.

All my hardware was PAL until I recently bought a Panasonic NTSC mixer.

I have two Amigas: A1200 (with 8mb expansion) and A600 (waiting for the 9.5mb expansion to arrive!). Both are PAL. Also the G-Lock is PAL.

In the G-Lock manual it states that even if it's PAL or NTSC, the system can be changed by doing a cold reboot, changing the Screen properties to the other system / mode (my case, I have a PAL hardware so I need to choose, according to the manual a NTSC interlaced mode). Then you execute the G-Lock software, it asks to Reboot, Reboot and it must start in the screen mode / system you selected. If the display is unstable, by executing the G-Lock soft it MUST sync and stabilize. They say that it will not be as perfect as the native system but it must work!

I do that and no matter which mode I choose (NTSC Hi res laced, not laced, super hi res, etc.) after the reboot the screen goes green and really scrambled.

I tried to "autostart" the G-Lock software by executing it via the boot sequence in case it was that (because I can not see anything so I cant look for it in the drawers and execute it!) and it's the same: Screen stays green and impossible to understand what i'm seeing (of course the WB is there!)

I tried it on both Amigas because according to the manual, that works on ECS chipset so my first guess was that the A1200 with AGA was not compatible with that feature. Tried in the A600 and it does the same.

Also I tried to give the Genlock a NTSC reference signal for sync purposes but it doesn't work either

Here is the manual (Page 46)
https://computerarchive.org/files/co...Manual-ENG.pdf

Can you help me to solve this? I'm ran out of ideas...

Thank you!

PS: I sent and email to the GVP people but didn't have an answer...
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Old 01 March 2017, 07:42   #2
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So according to the documentation:

1. Select and save NTSC Hires Laced for your workbench with screenmode prefs
2. start the G-Lock GL software, initialize the genlock by selecting reboot, then wait for the workbench to come up again in NTSC Hires Laced
3. start the GL software again

It doesn't work? If you are autostarting it, you should have the GL software + icon in sys:wbstartup. If you insist on having it in s:startup-sequence, the command for starting it should be placed after the iprefs line.
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Old 01 March 2017, 12:44   #3
idrougge
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I have successfully used a PAL G-Lock with NTSC signals, though it was two years ago or so.

Try changing the input signal in the GL program.
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Old 04 March 2017, 19:27   #4
VJDan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
So according to the documentation:

1. Select and save NTSC Hires Laced for your workbench with screenmode prefs
2. start the G-Lock GL software, initialize the genlock by selecting reboot, then wait for the workbench to come up again in NTSC Hires Laced
3. start the GL software again

It doesn't work? If you are autostarting it, you should have the GL software + icon in sys:wbstartup. If you insist on having it in s:startup-sequence, the command for starting it should be placed after the iprefs line.
I've just found a problem in the A600 keyboard so now i'm in the process of fixing it but as I remember, i put the command at the end of the startup sequence...
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Old 04 March 2017, 19:29   #5
VJDan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
I have successfully used a PAL G-Lock with NTSC signals, though it was two years ago or so.

Try changing the input signal in the GL program.
By changing the input signal you mean to use another hardware for signal input or changing the "button" (CVS1,2,Y/C) in the G-Lock software?

In the second case, I can't because I can't see anything but green background and tiny black sprites (scrambled screen)

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Old 05 March 2017, 03:17   #6
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Fascinating. What happens if you do this:
1. Delete ENVARC:sys/Screenmode.prefs
2. In early startup, choose to boot in NTSC mode

And you don't need to see what you do. There are keyboard shortcuts to control all G-lock features (mine came with a keyboard overlay).
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Old 05 March 2017, 03:51   #7
emufan
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G-Lock manual is available at computerarchive.org/files/comp/hardware/amiga/
GVP - G-Lock - Manual-ENG.pdf

it lists those shortcuts to switch modes on page 38 of the pdf.

Last edited by emufan; 05 March 2017 at 03:58.
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Old 25 March 2017, 10:06   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
Fascinating. What happens if you do this:
1. Delete ENVARC:sys/Screenmode.prefs
2. In early startup, choose to boot in NTSC mode

And you don't need to see what you do. There are keyboard shortcuts to control all G-lock features (mine came with a keyboard overlay).
Sorry for not having answered fast, I've just received the new membrane and installed it... A600 keyboard now works flawlessly!

Now I'm finishing the CF installation (early GLock testing was with an old HDD).

After that, I'll try the way you propose and let you know if it worked,

Thanks!
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Old 25 March 2017, 10:10   #9
VJDan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emufan View Post
G-Lock manual is available at computerarchive.org/files/comp/hardware/amiga/
GVP - G-Lock - Manual-ENG.pdf

it lists those shortcuts to switch modes on page 38 of the pdf.
Same: Sorry for the slow reply

WOW, I had the manual but didn't see that!!

I'll try it and let you know as soon as I finish the CF installation,

Thanks!
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Old 26 March 2017, 04:16   #10
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UPDATE:

First try: Started in PAL resolution. Changed to NTSC Laced, loaded Glock, reboot. It starts green but stabilizes with good image but B/W. The problem: When I enter into the GLock software again and select an input Signal (NTSC background color from an AVE7 Mixer) it looses sync (screen jerky, etc.). No matter which input I use (CVS1,2 or SVIDEO) it always looses sync to the point that is unusable. Tried to change between VCR and CAMERA options in GLock. CAMERA stabilized a little but it is still deformed and B/W.

Second try: ingested TIMING=NTSC tooltype in order to force NTSC Mode. Same thing, when I choose the input it goes out of sync at the point that it's almost impossible to deactivate the input in order to have it stabilized again.

One interesting thing: When I choose the NTSC input from the mixer, the GLock says that the input is NTSC B/W (of course it is not!!!).

The mixer is not the problem because I use it all the time for my performances.

About the "Early statup option": I don't have it, my A600 has Kickstart 2.05

Do you have another ideas to share? I'm really frustrated

Thanks!
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Old 26 March 2017, 05:55   #11
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I would try doing it in two stages.

1) Setup one Amiga to display NTSC image, interlaced. Use the output as the genlock source from the start.

2) On the other Amiga with the PAL genlock, startup in PAL mode and then trying to do the switch to NTSC.

It could be the genlock needs an NTSC source to lock onto, as well as an Amiga running PAL switching over into NTSC, in order to convince it to run at NTSC speed. You say you are giving it a good NTSC source, but if you use one of the Amigas, then you know it is actually getting a genuine NTSC colour signal.

On a separate note, I would seriously consider looking out for PAL video mixer. Much less hassle. Switching over from one system to another, you have to change everything - sources and outputs (screens).

Last edited by Pat the Cat; 26 March 2017 at 06:02.
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Old 26 March 2017, 07:25   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat the Cat View Post
I would try doing it in two stages.

1) Setup one Amiga to display NTSC image, interlaced. Use the output as the genlock source from the start.

2) On the other Amiga with the PAL genlock, startup in PAL mode and then trying to do the switch to NTSC.

It could be the genlock needs an NTSC source to lock onto, as well as an Amiga running PAL switching over into NTSC, in order to convince it to run at NTSC speed. You say you are giving it a good NTSC source, but if you use one of the Amigas, then you know it is actually getting a genuine NTSC colour signal.

On a separate note, I would seriously consider looking out for PAL video mixer. Much less hassle. Switching over from one system to another, you have to change everything - sources and outputs (screens).
Thanks for the reply!

Some quick answers: I have both PAL and NTSC mixers. The thing is that right now my videoart setup is built on top of the AVE7 (because it has color correction and other effects that I'm using). Is the only NTSC mixer I have. The moment I find a PAL AVE7 of course I'll buy it

Now to your idea: I'll try it, but it will not suite my needs because the idea is not to take both amigas (PAL) to "the road" with me. My idea is to take just the A600 (smaller), the AVE7 and two more gadgets (a VideoSynth by Gis Gieskes) and other synth that I made.

Right now I'm testing with the 3trins NTSC output and it's not taking it either! It's really weird, it's like it can't lock to any of the the NTSC input signals that I have! Not the 3trins, nor the AVE7... Both semi professional video equipment!

I have Workbench 2.1 installed and in the manual it says AmigaDOS 2.0

Can it be the problem??

Thanks!
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Old 26 March 2017, 08:02   #13
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UPDATE:

Made some more tests and this time everything is just like the first ones: Green screen, totally scrambled... It appears that there are no logic. Tried the same that I did when I got B/W unstable (but I could read, etc.) and didn't got to the same point. Always green scrambled screen (

I also managed to execute the G-Lock Soft with a shortcut (I have ClassicWB Lite installed). Executed it without seeing, changed many times the inputs from CVS1 to 2 to SVIDEO... Nothing happens, the Genlock seems to refuse to lock to the NTSC input signal, from the mixer or the Video Synth.
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Old 26 March 2017, 16:53   #14
idrougge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat the Cat View Post
It could be the genlock needs an NTSC source to lock onto, as well as an Amiga running PAL switching over into NTSC, in order to convince it to run at NTSC speed. You say you are giving it a good NTSC source, but if you use one of the Amigas, then you know it is actually getting a genuine NTSC colour signal.
What? No! Only an NTSC Amiga will output a genuine NTSC colour signal, assuming the Amiga in question even has a video output.

Besides, the G-lock doesn't require starting in PAL mode.
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Old 26 March 2017, 16:55   #15
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VJDan, what exactly does your NTSC mixer do? Does it generate a signal as a stand-alone unit or does it need to be fed with input signals? If you connect it to a monitor, do you get a colour image?
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Old 26 March 2017, 17:04   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
What? No! Only an NTSC Amiga will output a genuine NTSC colour signal, assuming the Amiga in question even has a video output.

Besides, the G-lock doesn't require starting in PAL mode.
Issue - sync source currently used might not be outputting genuine NTSC for the G-Lock to hook onto.

Solution - Try a differeent sync source to see if it makes a difference. As there is one built into every Amiga, ever, that seems an obvious one to use.

This approach has now pointed to a hardware fault in the Glock, as it is not syncing to ANY NTSC source. Hooray, poster has advanced towards a working solution a little bit. Had they not had a different NTSC source anyway, they could have used an Amiga.

Iggy, Your endless hate posts and snotty nosed quips belong in a school playground. Again I say, GROW UP BOY.

Last edited by Pat the Cat; 26 March 2017 at 17:09.
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Old 26 March 2017, 17:24   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VJDan View Post

I have Workbench 2.1 installed and in the manual it says AmigaDOS 2.0

Can it be the problem??

Thanks!
Easy way to find out is testing out the Glock on the other Amiga.

I really doubt that is the case. It could just be the power going to the Glock is a problem... I note from the manual;-

Quote:
G-Lock is powered directly by the Amiga. While power requirements are minimal, the A500, A500 Plus, and A600 series computers may be limited in the number of other peripherals that can be attached. Please consult your Amiga reference manual for specific recommendations.

Check the voltages, both on the Amiga and the Glock - really it's expecting a nice steady 5V, possibly other voltages too. You might be better off fitting an external power source to the GLock for reliable operation.

Hint for building mobile rigs - start with a set of components, arrange them into a working order (this takes most time).

THEN get it built into a suitable housing. If you try to build to your initial design, you will run into a lot more hitches and need to do more workarounds. This sounds like the approach your are using.
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Old 26 March 2017, 17:37   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat the Cat View Post
Issue - sync source currently used might not be outputting genuine NTSC for the G-Lock to hook onto.
Solution - Try a differeent sync source to see if it makes a difference. As there is one built into every Amiga, ever, that seems an obvious one to use.

This approach has now pointed to a hardware fault in the Glock, as it is not syncing to ANY NTSC source. Hooray, poster has advanced towards a working solution a little bit. Had they not had a different NTSC source anyway, they could have used an Amiga.

You didn't even read the poster's original post. He has only PAL Amigas. PAL Amigas cannot generate an NTSC signal. Thus there is no NTSC signal for the G-Lock to lock onto. End of discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat the Cat
Iggy, Your endless hate posts and snotty nosed quips belong in a school playground. Again I say, GROW UP BOY.
You're meddling in discussions where you can't be bothered to actually read what is being posted, instead jumping to conclusions in order to make yourself look like a helpful chap when in reality, you're constantly sending people in need of help off in the wrong directions and even put their hardware at risk – remember the thread about clock ports where you couldn't even admit you were wrong when faced with a crushing amount of official Commodore documentation and solid experience from people who have actually made clockport expansions.

If it weren't for people looking out for your misinformative posts, sooner or later your so-called "help" will lead to someone destroying their equipment. Will you be there to pick up the bill then?
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Old 26 March 2017, 17:40   #19
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VJDan, please confirm that your Workbench and Amiga is in NTSC mode when booting. Select NTSC in early startup menu and make certain that you don't have any saved screenmode preferences.
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Old 26 March 2017, 18:07   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
PAL Amigas cannot generate an NTSC signal. Thus there is no NTSC signal for the G-Lock to lock onto. End of discussion.
Uh... If that was the case, then how could a GLock ever lock a PAL Amiga signal onto an NTSC signal?

It couldn't. Ever.
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