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Old 03 January 2020, 22:31   #41
StingRay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by van_dammesque View Post
For the Amiga I reckon Leander was the best, subtle change in level design, nowadays it would be reported and solved much quicker.

Leander's protection wasn't anything special at all, there were a lot of protections that were MUCH better and harder to crack! But the coder of Leander thinks he invented the best protection ever according to his video on YouTube...
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Old 03 January 2020, 22:35   #42
Retro1234
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Last time I played SleepWalker AGA WHDload (2015 ish) its impossible to progress past a level because theres no Giraffe. So copy protection is effective even today.

although old JST version works
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Old 03 January 2020, 22:44   #43
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Me and my pal started with an interesting idea when we coded A/NES (the NES 8-bit emulator back in the days). We played with the idea of "hiding" relevant code as 6502, running the code through the emulator itself. I don't think we ever got it running properly but I think the idea is interesting.
Obfuscating (custom) code by running it through an emulator/parser of some sort.
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Old 03 January 2020, 23:28   #44
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I keep thinking of an idea, that if a new game will be developed, then just before publishing it could be given to crack and whoever does it first (and creates a proper cracktro!), his/her crack would be included in the final version...
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Old 04 January 2020, 05:04   #45
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I keep thinking of an idea, that if a new game will be developed, then just before publishing it could be given to crack and whoever does it first (and creates a proper cracktro!), his/her crack would be included in the final version...
Lol or a reference made such as:

Cracked by X - thank you for not releasing (yet!)

Removing objects and giving false sense of everything working is a great crack... I think it's a way of programmers getting crackers frustrated lol.

I always wondered whether the Amiga could be made to read disk in REVERSE ie spin motor the opposite way. Then you effectively read data at specific points but the original code would be encrypted to instruct how and where to read code and it what direction.
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Old 04 January 2020, 06:57   #46
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Real games are made for computers, not consoles.
What a silly thing to say. You might get a better framerate on a PC, but games never run as smoothly on computers.

Windows is doing so many more things in the background compared to a console, and it causes the game to jerk or pause at times. Also all the issues with DRM, drivers, OS compatibility issues...

Nothing beats just putting the disk in and playing without any bullshit.
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Old 04 January 2020, 11:26   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oRBIT View Post
Me and my pal started with an interesting idea when we coded A/NES (the NES 8-bit emulator back in the days). We played with the idea of "hiding" relevant code as 6502, running the code through the emulator itself. I don't think we ever got it running properly but I think the idea is interesting.
Obfuscating (custom) code by running it through an emulator/parser of some sort.

Well, also 6502 code can be reversed. In the end, you might make it a bit harder for the inexperienced coder/cracker but anyone who ever had to deal with interpreter based protections would be able to break your protection too.
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Old 04 January 2020, 22:32   #48
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Well, also 6502 code can be reversed. In the end, you might make it a bit harder for the inexperienced coder/cracker but anyone who ever had to deal with interpreter based protections would be able to break your protection too.
You're right of course, it would always be a matter of time. Would make me think of the old Sierra-games (Leisure Suit Larry 1 & 2 comes to mind). The first one used some kind of age-verification questions (that could be bypassed by pressing some key-combo If I recall correctly). And the follow-up had some image-matching with stuff found in the manual.
I never saw cracked versions of these games (protection was bypassed in other ways) but didn't Sierra use some kind of engine/interpreter for those games that possibly made cracking them harder(?)
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Old 04 January 2020, 23:10   #49
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B.A.T. 2 came with a dongle allowing you to play the game, so you need a special dedicated hardware. And even that was cracked...
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Old 04 January 2020, 23:20   #50
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B.A.T. 2 came with a dongle allowing you to play the game, so you need a special dedicated hardware. And even that was cracked...
Very similar to how arcade machines work... or at least some games.
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Old 04 January 2020, 23:36   #51
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dedicated hardware means dedicated software to read it. And it's not very subtle to access a serial port from a game.
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Old 06 January 2020, 18:01   #52
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The only thing I can think of that comes close to being uncrackable is including some piece of hardware that is vital to the game (like the super-fx chip on the snes) but that can still be cracked depending on what you mean by cracking. You could reverse engineer the hardware and produce documentation on how to create your own hardware or re-use the hardware if it is the same across multiple games (the way the snes copiers did for the dsp chips) or you could possibly replace the hardware with a coded software equivalent
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Old 06 January 2020, 19:48   #53
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To make a difficult to crack game/programs what you need is something like an RSA key. It generates a unique code each time - the same method is used for banking apps for example.
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Old 06 January 2020, 20:03   #54
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Originally Posted by oRBIT View Post
Me and my pal started with an interesting idea when we coded A/NES (the NES 8-bit emulator back in the days). We played with the idea of "hiding" relevant code as 6502, running the code through the emulator itself. I don't think we ever got it running properly but I think the idea is interesting.
Obfuscating (custom) code by running it through an emulator/parser of some sort.
Thats how major protections on PC work nowadays, running several functions through one or more virtual machines that e.g. blow a 1 kb function up to tons of megabytes including thousands of checks and checksums. Of course they are not uncrackable in the end, but looking at the pc scene nowadays, companies are near to achieve that aim. Luckywise those protections are expensive and 95% of the games use more simple methods. :-)
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Old 06 January 2020, 20:50   #55
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Seems easy to do, do not protect the game then it will be uncrackable
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