Who are/were the best programmers? - Page 3

Photon · 26 September 2008, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Jez San's employees could perhaps be described as "the best 68K machine language programmers"... dunno about Jez himself.

I think the only game he personally coded on was StarGlider 1

Why, thank you.

Well, he did write some cool CPU filled poly routines for Amiga. He certainly knew the Amiga inside out. Writing games also requires imagination for coming up with how to do more complex stuff, discipline to write 30-60k lines of bug-free asm, and stamina to finish the damn thing.

Not to mention a talent for making a game appealing (have sensible controls and rewards systems) and the perseverance to finish those extras and enjoyable visuals.

So "being the greatest coder !!!!111one" and making enjoyable games are two different things, even tho back in the asm days you really couldn't be a terrible coder and still make decent games.

When I worked there Jez had a more managerial role, but he also tried out misc cool algorithms on PC, like fractal image compression and the like, and (with others) developed the FX chip for SNES, and other cool stuff

Photon · 26 September 2008, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by girv

Andrew Braybrook and Archer Maclean for me. They're way too smart! Have you seen their code?!

Very good choice, two legends/personal heroes there.

David Braben and Paul Woakes are just as good if not better, as they invented brand new ways of creating world. Especially Zarch is very nice.

Peter Irwin (and William Reeve) are other great Beeb coders. They are immortalized by a single game release. I'm talking about Exile. As is Dave Jones for 'Lemmings'. Hand out prizes everyone!

NewDeli · 27 September 2008, 02:11

Don't know if you were aware of it, but after the successful Dragon's Lair (remember the swordsman wearing the eloquent name of Dick ?), there were a few attempts to make animes-like Arcade games with predefined video sequences.

Some of them were quite impressive (most are avalaible via the Daphne emulator), albeit with average to poor gameplay.

Plz check out Midway's Astron Belt (graphics by Toeik, the famous anime studio), who used to run on *ss-whoopin' laserdisk hardware from Hitachi.

Marcuz · 27 September 2008, 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCorfiot

And the guys that coded the Pinball Dreams / Fantasies / Illusions series. Still got to get my regular fix of Miggy Pinball.

TC

hey, i second that! especially Pinball Fantasies was amazing in terms of speed and scrolling...

Jgames · 26 August 2010, 23:43

Just came over this thread;
Concerning emulator authors, i would choose: Steve Snake, his Kega emulator is FANTASTIC, great attention to details he has.

And about DOS and assembly games programmers, there is one, Michael Abrash, one of the greatest game programmers. (the fact that he influenced a lot of other know and great programmers, including John Cramack)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Abrash

And best programmer all categories : Dave Cutler, Win NT kernel programmer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cutler

TCD · 26 August 2010, 23:51

Too bad that the SMS and GG emulation in KEGA still lacks a bit. MD and MegaCD is really well done though

Jgames · 27 August 2010, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Too bad that the SMS and GG emulation in KEGA still lacks a bit. MD and MegaCD is really well done though

I found the GG and SMS flawless, but i admit i use it only for MD.

TCD · 27 August 2010, 00:07

Try Fantastic Dizzy (SMS) in KEGA and MEKA for example.

desiv · 27 August 2010, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewDeli

....after the successful Dragon's Lair .

Good point here too..

Dragon's Lair for the Amiga was very impressive programming.
Simon Douglas I believe...
Impressive compression and floppy routines...
And also, he did A-Max, the Macintosh emulator....
There's a guy who was cutting edge. Not just, "I'll code something that's better than you", but "I'll code something no one else (on the Amiga*) has done".

And, as mentioned above, I really like Dave Jones' stuff. Well, his Amiga stuff anyway.. ;-)

desiv

*- Yes, the Magic Sac Mac emulator for the ST came out before A-Max, and it has the best name in software history.. Magic Sac? Wow!!

StingRay · 27 August 2010, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

Dragon's Lair for the Amiga was very impressive programming.
Simon Douglas I believe...
Impressive compression and floppy routines...

Dragon's Lair was coded by Randy Linden (who later coded Bleem!) but it wasn't exactly impressive programming. The only interesting thing was the copy protection which was indeed quite good, the rest wasn't anything special.

desiv · 27 August 2010, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

Dragon's Lair was coded by Randy Linden (who later coded Bleem!)

That's right! I knew that too..

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

the rest wasn't anything special.

You obviously weren't there when it was released.. (or have a selective memory)
It was special..
It still is..
When I show people that coming off of floppies today (Yes, I do that..), they almost uniformly say "That's coming off of floppies? Wow!"

Simon did some of the later Dragon's Lair games... (II, III, and Space Ace).

So, they are BOTH really good!!
And BOTH did emulators.. Interesting.. ;-)

desiv

StingRay · 27 August 2010, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

You obviously weren't there when it was released.. (or have a selective memory)
It was special..
It still is..

It never was anything special! The Dragon's Lair games hardly feature any code and obviously you are not a coder. And yes, I was around when that game was released and NEVER considered it to be anything special.
The "game" is nothing more than some anim player with joystick controls. What's impressive about that?

desiv · 27 August 2010, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

It never was anything special! The Dragon's Lair games hardly feature any code and obviously you are not a coder. And yes, I was around when that game was released and NEVER considered it to be anything special.
The "game" is nothing more than some anim player with joystick controls. What's impressive about that?

It wasn't special to you (and probably others), but that doesn't mean it wasn't special.. Just try to remember the press around it when it was released, and it sold pretty well..
You think it sold well because it was a great game??
Or more likely because it was special..

Funny, I bet you really like the 9 Fingers Demo...
;-)

Also, I'm sorry. I didn't catch the part of this thread where only "coders" could participate..
My lack of leetness shames me....
I am a LAMER!! LAMER!!!
Your uber leetitude has defiled my family...

desiv

p.s. Hey, Randy did the SNES Doom port also...

frank_b · 27 August 2010, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilshy

Games programming and demo programming were 2 very different things. Excellent, technically amazing demo coders often didn't make good games programmers. There were exceptions, don't get me wrong.

For me, games wise it's the classic names Geoff Crammond, Archer McLean, Andrew Braybrook etc. Also not forgetting to mention David Braben, Dino Dini, Sensible Software etc.

Demos was about technical ability and not gelling it into game design. But some awesome coders like Chaos / Sanity, the guy from Complex (did Real, Origin), Gods coders, Team Hoi, plus plenty of A500 demo coders etc. My mind is blank for some reason!!

How could I nearly forget Teijo Kinnunen for Octamed. Responsible for eating up more of my time than any other music package, even Ableton & Reason in the present day!

I met Dino. His company did some work for the company I used to work for a few years ago. Nice bloke.

Galahad/FLT · 27 August 2010, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

It wasn't special to you (and probably others), but that doesn't mean it wasn't special.. Just try to remember the press around it when it was released, and it sold pretty well..
You think it sold well because it was a great game??
Or more likely because it was special..

Funny, I bet you really like the 9 Fingers Demo...
;-)

Also, I'm sorry. I didn't catch the part of this thread where only "coders" could participate..
My lack of leetness shames me....
I am a LAMER!! LAMER!!!
Your uber leetitude has defiled my family...

desiv

p.s. Hey, Randy did the SNES Doom port also...

Actually Stingray doesn't like 9 Fingers nor State of the Art.

From a coding perspective, Dragons Lair really wasn't anything special, sure it might have looked very much like a 'live' action cartoon, but the programming behind it really wasn't particularly great.

As Stingray said, it is simply an anim player with code to check that the joystick is pushed in the correct direction for it to play the next animation.

If my memory serves me right, theres more code dedicated to the copy protection than to the actual game code itself.

StingRay · 27 August 2010, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

It wasn't special to you (and probably others), but that doesn't mean it wasn't special.. Just try to remember the press around it when it was released, and it sold pretty well..
You think it sold well because it was a great game??
Or more likely because it was special..

No, it sold well because it was hyped to no end!

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

Funny, I bet you really like the 9 Fingers Demo...
;-)

Sorry to disappoint you, both (State of the Art, 9 Fingers) demos are overhyped anim players and I don't like them. But tell me, why do you think that I like 9 fingers? I'm interested to hear your answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

Also, I'm sorry. I didn't catch the part of this thread where only "coders" could participate..
My lack of leetness shames me....
I am a LAMER!! LAMER!!!
Your uber leetitude has defiled my family...

How old are you? 3? I only mentioned the coder bit because you claimed the game is "super special" while in fact it just isn't anything special. Ask any coder and you'll get the same answer.

desiv · 27 August 2010, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

How old are you? 3?

Relax.. Maybe less caffiene????

It was a joke..

I still think it is "super special" even tho I'm not a coder.

Take it easy..

desiv

kriz · 27 August 2010, 22:38

They are coders.. I also agree, its not really impressing programming (dragons lair). More hype than skills IMHO

StingRay · 27 August 2010, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

Relax.. Maybe less caffiene????

It was a joke..

I still think it is "super special" even tho I'm not a coder.

Take it easy..

desiv

What makes you believe that I am not relaxed? You are way too quick to jump to conclusions.

Anyway, I do understand why you think the game is special, just, for me it isn't. That's all.

desiv · 27 August 2010, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

But tell me, why do you think that I like 9 fingers? I'm interested to hear your answer.

Just that it was/is very popular. Many people do..

My bad..

I happen to think good compression is good coding.. Just me I guess.

Hasta..

desiv

26 August 2010, 23:43	#45
Jgames Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK Posts: 457	Just came over this thread; Concerning emulator authors, i would choose: Steve Snake, his Kega emulator is FANTASTIC, great attention to details he has. And about DOS and assembly games programmers, there is one, Michael Abrash, one of the greatest game programmers. (the fact that he influenced a lot of other know and great programmers, including John Cramack) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Abrash And best programmer all categories : Dave Cutler, Win NT kernel programmer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cutler Last edited by Jgames; 26 August 2010 at 23:54. Reason: addition

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27 September 2008, 02:11	#43
NewDeli Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paris / FRANCE Age: 50 Posts: 1,248	Don't know if you were aware of it, but after the successful Dragon's Lair (remember the swordsman wearing the eloquent name of Dick ?), there were a few attempts to make animes-like Arcade games with predefined video sequences. Some of them were quite impressive (most are avalaible via the Daphne emulator), albeit with average to poor gameplay. Plz check out Midway's Astron Belt (graphics by Toeik, the famous anime studio), who used to run on *ss-whoopin' laserdisk hardware from Hitachi.

26 August 2010, 23:51	#46
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,525	Too bad that the SMS and GG emulation in KEGA still lacks a bit. MD and MegaCD is really well done though

27 August 2010, 00:07	#48
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,525	Try Fantastic Dizzy (SMS) in KEGA and MEKA for example.

27 August 2010, 22:38	#58
kriz Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: No(R)Way Age: 41 Posts: 3,185	They are coders.. I also agree, its not really impressing programming (dragons lair). More hype than skills IMHO

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