Take Me Back :(

[alanc5]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

What's interesting is that even back at the height of the Amiga days (the early '90s) people were saying that about Amiga games; look at an Amiga Power letters page for example and the chances are you'll find plenty of readers complaining about Amiga games not being as good as their 8-bit counterparts, all the originality and creativity has gone, etc.

And I have no doubt in 20 years' time, the people who grew up with the PS3/XBox 360/Wii will be saying exactly the same thing and constantly talk about the good old days of Halo 3 or whatever. It's just natural to be sentimental about the "old" days, I guess.

Exactly.

And its like...there might well seem to be a lot of remakes around, but if you are 12 and just getting your first computer, all of these games are new to you. We might bemoan the same old thing yet again but forget that every day there's fresh eyes seeing this stuff for the first time, and to them that's their moment, the one they will look back on with fondness.

[Hungry Horace]

i'd like to know how some explain away those people who play retrogames for the first time now, and enjoy them greatly?

surely there can be no nostalgia in something you have not tried before? Is it not just that those types of games are the ones of your personal preference? (like those who have said they do not like 3d games?) - personally i would not write off such a large category so readily, but i do feel confident saying that there are more 2D games i greatly enjoy than 3D ones.


And while its being mentioned, i'm with Paul_s on this one... i keep trying recommended SNES games, and the ones i like all seem to be on other systems anyway. An over-rated system i think too (from a games view - the hardware is fine.) I even prefer the catalogue on the C64 - and coming from a ZX-Spectrum user, that's saying something!


i guess we are all different, and we should not be so quick to say all people like X game/machine only for Y reason

[alanc5]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

i'd like to know how some explain away those people who play retrogames for the first time now, and enjoy them greatly?

surely there can be no nostalgia in something you have not tried before? Is it not just that those types of games are the ones of your personal preference? (like those who have said they do not like 3d games?) - personally i would not write off such a large category so readily, but i do feel confident saying that there are more 2D games i greatly enjoy than 3D ones.


And while its being mentioned, i'm with Paul_s on this one... i keep trying recommended SNES games, and the ones i like all seem to be on other systems anyway. An over-rated system i think too (from a games view - the hardware is fine.) I even prefer the catalogue on the C64 - and coming from a ZX-Spectrum user, that's saying something!


i guess we are all different, and we should not be so quick to say all people like X game/machine only for Y reason

People like old games now, even if they have never been in that era, because they are still good games even though they are old.

I think once graphics reached a certain point to be generally "good", then you didn't shy away from playing them. I know my nephew who has never known Amiga really loves playing the games and is a bit of a retro freak.

My sisters two young kids 5 and 7, will play just about anything and enjoy them. My nephew, 7, absolutely loves Smash TV.

I love platform games, so do they...I think they feel a little bit overwhelmed with 3D platformers, but give them Adams family or Superfrog with their obvious obstacles and they are away.

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by alanc5

People like old games now, even if they have never been in that era, because they are still good games even though they are old.

That hits the nail on the head. Good games are good games, full stop.

The very best Amiga games stand up alongside the very best PS2, XBox, Dreamcast, N64, PlayStation, Mega Drive, SNES, Spectrum, C64 etc. games.

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

That hits the nail on the head. Good games are good games, full stop.

The very best Amiga games stand up alongside the very best PS2, XBox, Dreamcast, N64, PlayStation, Mega Drive, SNES, Spectrum, C64 etc. games.

yes and we forget all the crap made for those old machines

[Mangar]

The gaming companies are mired in a cesspool of unoriginality and lack of creativity.

I remember playing a game called skooldaze on the c64 where you walk around a school using your slingshot, sitting in on classes and generally being an ass. Not sure if there was a point to the game. But I had many hours of fun.

All the games seem the same to me now. Wierd games like katamari and warioware catch my eye once in a while but most of the stuff is the same crap that's been floating in the sewers the past 10 years.

[Hungry Horace]

Skooldaze was also on the speccy, along with its sequel; Back 2 Skool which for some reason that i dont know, failed to appear on the c64.

brilliant games.

[chiark]

Best things that have "taken me back" to the joys of computing recently have been running OS X, which is great, and playing Super Mario Galaxy on the Wii.

The sad thing is I used to be so creative on the Amiga - deluxe paint, soundtracker, devpac, ... But I just can't find enthusiasm for photoshop or the like.

[blade002]

Originally Posted by chiark

The sad thing is I used to be so creative on the Amiga - deluxe paint, soundtracker, devpac, ... But I just can't find enthusiasm for photoshop or the like.

Yeah i know what you mean. Maybe its because DPaint was simple in design but very effective in output, but when you load up Photoshop there is just too much going on!, as in too many options.

Its a bit like playing F/A-18 Interceptor compared to today flight sims on the PC. The Amiga game was just power up the plane, turn off the landing brakes, kick the afterburners in and then pull up and raise the arrestor hook.

On the PC with flight sims, its check 400 dials, radio the tower, get clearance, polish your uniform, shag the stewardess, announce to the passengers that you just shagged the stewardess, power the thing up, check the wind, check the flight path... actually, you should have a PHD in rocket science before you actually take off!.

If your a pilot and you love things that full on, then great!. but i think most of us just want to get up there fly it, and not sit there for 2 hours just learning how to take off!.

[Merlin]

@ blade002

That's why Elite was such a landmark game, not exactly pretty to look at, but it had atmosphere and gameplay in spades, I spent way too much time fighting off the Thargons and pirates.

Flashy graphics doth not necessarily a good game make.....

Merlin

[chiark]

Originally Posted by Merlin

Flashy graphics doth not necessarily a good game make.....

That's why I think I appreciate the wii - Nintendo consciously decided not to compete in the graphics power battle, and took the machine in a different direction completely...

[webhead]

i think it sounds like were all waiting for a new amiga.

we need a new amiga with new gubbins thats not seen before,abit like a nintendo wii this is probably the only machine thats brought back the wow feeling for me in a long time ,its fun to play you can challenge people but it lacks the graphics power of the 360 ps3 this has let it down a bit.

but what im saying is imagine a lush new amiga with weird chipsets and new types of audio playing dvd,s burning ,all in a cute little box ,and i dont mean with os4 onit i mean something totally new.

then you might all feel better again.

i know i would.

[chiark]

Agreed, but then I don't have the vision to work out what would be as revolutionary as the Amiga was in the early 80s when it was first conceived.

I still find it amazing when you consider the jump from the 6502-based machines (Vic 20/64/etc) with fairly simple media to the all singing, all dancing Amiga with its holy triumvirate of Paula, Agnus and Denise taking the strain off the processor. Other machines did have display and sound chips, but nowhere near as well integrated with the rest of the system and able to run largely without the supervision of the processor. For example, the copper and its list - simple as it was - meant that the display was largely taken care of without any significant processor use.

I'll never forget seeing Juggler running in a shop window one grey winter's day. At the time I was hacking around with a C128 and pleased just to be able to run 80 column mode on the 1901 monitor... but juggler? Wow.

I've never been a big gamer but rather have always been interested in making things do as much as they can, and that to me was the beauty of the Amiga. Whether it was the OS, or the hardware, you stood a chance of understanding everything from the bits up (eg bit 6, $bfe001 = left mouse button state, the simplicity of the mountlist and later devs directory...)

I guess the real issue is that revolutionary power coupled with simplicity is no longer possible - we're at the point that a revolution will dictate more complexity.

Perhaps the successor to the Amiga should be powerful enough to do proper multimedia, and have multimedia at its core so be able to sync to external video sources, etc, but be fundamentally understandable.

Sure Linux is understandable in a way that Windows never will be, but to me the whole gnome/kde/wm proliferation does more harm than good.

It's a shame the wii isn't an open platform, or a general purpose computer as well - just as the Amiga was. nintendo's approach of tying down everything to protect their brand is almost diametrically opposite to the real Amiga ethos. Whether commodore intended it or not, people took the machine as theirs, then set about making it sing in whatever way they saw fit. Commodore were certainly complicit in this with the publication of the hardware reference manuals, even if advise was not to hit the hardware directly... Yeah, right

Perhaps a more general purpose version of the gp2x is the spiritual successor, with AROS on it...

Ah, this nostalgia is brilliant. I've just set up the 20MB hard drive and A500 that I bought from ebay that really cuold have been my old a500 setup, and the noise of a Seagate MFM drive starting up took me right back . i suspect what I really want is to be the age when discovery was such fun, and the Amiga (computer, and also noting that Amiga is spanish for girlfriend) was a perfect fun thing to discover.

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by webhead

i think it sounds like were all waiting for a new amiga.

we need a new amiga with new gubbins thats not seen before,abit like a nintendo wii this is probably the only machine thats brought back the wow feeling for me in a long time ,its fun to play you can challenge people but it lacks the graphics power of the 360 ps3 this has let it down a bit.

but what im saying is imagine a lush new amiga with weird chipsets and new types of audio playing dvd,s burning ,all in a cute little box ,and i dont mean with os4 onit i mean something totally new.

then you might all feel better again.

i know i would.

Yeah, and it should have a wireless gun, light sabre, steering wheel and loads of other cool accessories.

Imagine 5.1 surround sound on a Star Wars Jedi style game, with you armed with a wireless light sabre... that would be ubercool.

You can't have " an elegant weapon, from a bygone age" with a cable trailing from it.

[DrF]

Originally Posted by Merlin

You can't have " an elegant weapon, from a bygone age" with a cable trailing from it.

You know a woman said that to me once.... at least I think it was a woman

[pbareges]

@graham :

i also wondered about the nostalgia stuff ..but i don't think so ! i really agree with galahad when he says that the gaming experience is dead since ps1...you can'T compare 8 bits to 16 bits jump with 16 bits to ps1+ jump...really 8bits fun games, because of tech constraints, were all about originality , 16 bits were a good mix of techs and originality (the perfect mix according to me), ps+ became all about tech...the greatness of amiga was inpart the perfect timing where the potential of the machine was giving support for lots of dreams to be achieved while still preserving accessibility to amateur coders.
why do i think it's not about nostalgia ? because of the wii! right it's not a computer and you don't have any privilege to compose, code, draw, animate which were really parts of amiga fun....
but i never had so much FUN since amiga! it's all about the gaming experience again, bringing family and friends around the console to play! i love : super mario galaxy, wii sports, wii fit, super mario party, big brain academy....and expect with a lot of excitement : wii mario kart and wii worms next year!
@galahad and graham : have you tried to play wii (with full devotion, ie without any kind of septicism) ?

[Graham Humphrey]

Yes, my brother's friend has one, it's brilliant, superb fun. As soon as I've got enough space and cash I'm buying one for sure.

[alanc5]

Originally Posted by webhead

i think it sounds like were all waiting for a new amiga.

we need a new amiga with new gubbins thats not seen before,abit like a nintendo wii this is probably the only machine thats brought back the wow feeling for me in a long time ,its fun to play you can challenge people but it lacks the graphics power of the 360 ps3 this has let it down a bit.

but what im saying is imagine a lush new amiga with weird chipsets and new types of audio playing dvd,s burning ,all in a cute little box ,and i dont mean with os4 onit i mean something totally new.

then you might all feel better again.

i know i would.

You know mate that's it exactly, that's what I would love, it's what I do now in a way...try and tinker with various bits of hardware, but it's a lonely thing.

A new machine with some spiffy new hardware would inspire us all again. It doesn't have to be 50Ghz & graphics that could simulate reality, it just has to be interesting, a bit like the Wii I guess. But most importantly, something we can all get into and develop for, hack at, extend. That's the trouble with all of the modern machines - if you don't work for a big software company you just cant get near development kit or dev info. There's homebrew I guess but that's never going to create a buzz like the Amiga did. All those legal issues around modern kit, its stupid and restrictive for now real apparant reason.

I kinda hoped the PS3 was going to be open when I heard you could put Linux on it..but as usual it isn't really, it's sandboxed, you cant really get access to the interesting hardware from it.

I suppose my interest was peaked toward the GP2X too as its an open machine, but its just a gadget really isn't it, it's not an Amiga.

I really miss the community, the magazines, learning something new everyday, that's what the Amiga was, an open wonder machine that brought so many talented people in.

[webhead]

yes the mags were great, look at any pc mag there all the freakin same ,i used to spend hours in whsmith reading all the amiga mags ,they looked cool aswell defo best mags ever made.
there still interesting now,a pc or console mag you buy then hour later throe it in the bin.

what we need is the triple aaa set ,wouldnt that be nice even,to see what we could have had all them years ago but now and have sumit to play with ,whos got thos diagrams lol.

lets dig the old amiga engineers up and get them to make the aaa amiga come on you must still be out there,electronics are cheap now go for it i buy 10.

[tekopaa]

Good Old days:

I remeber that time when amiga was dying In my old school when i was 14/15 years old i bought amiga 500 that time about 15years ago In that time there was gangs in school PC againts Amiga One mate sayed to me u have bought Amiga its glad that u will come to your side againts thos PUUUCEE idiots XD..... i changed my 286 7mhz 512kb EGA DD 720kb,20mb PC To amiga500 soon i bought PC133+ Cyrix ...after 10years A1200tower and lots of amigas after that