A1200 + KS3.1 + ClassicWB + PFS3 , am I safe with 4+GB HD?

keropi · 11 February 2008, 09:43

As topic, will PFS3 usage on a wb3.1 system allow me to use SAFELLY a hard disk larger than 4GB?
thanks!

Toni Wilen · 11 February 2008, 10:48

PFS3DS should be safe. Non-DirectSCSI version IS NOT safe without scsi.device update or idefix or similar.

keropi · 11 February 2008, 11:59

PFS3DS? is it part of the PFS3? I have the original CD...
thanks Toni!

edit: just checked my installation CD, there is also a PFS3DS version

thomas · 11 February 2008, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

PFS3DS should be safe.

I've heard that there is a bug in scsi.device which prevents to go beyond 8GB with HD_SCSICMD.

Quote:

Non-DirectSCSI version IS NOT safe without

Well, it is safe, because it does not work. PFS3 partitions above 4GB simply don't mount if TD64 is not available.

Quote:

scsi.device update or idefix or similar.

AFAIK IDEfix is the only choice. PFS3 only supports TD64 while the scsi.device update only supports NSD. And I don't know anything similar like these two.

keropi · 11 February 2008, 22:33

so thomas what is your suggestion?
I install a small boot parition ~500-600MB with PFS3 , then just install IDEfix and afterwards configure the rest of the HD space with PFS3? I will use a 12GB 2.5" one... (or do I still need PFS3DS with idefix?)

EmuChicken · 11 February 2008, 23:46

is SFS oldhat now or something? :/

Toni Wilen · 12 February 2008, 08:35

I'll test with huge hardfile someday.. Either 8G limit is real or it is yet another stupid Amiga rumour..

keropi · 12 February 2008, 18:37

as a sidenote, I have purchased an Elbox 4xEIDE'99 interface, will it help to overcome scsi.device limits like the FastATA?

ppill · 12 February 2008, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by keropi

as a sidenote, I have purchased an Elbox 4xEIDE'99 interface, will it help to overcome scsi.device limits like the FastATA?

Yes, and there's been an update recently that allows you to use disks larger than 128GB.

keropi · 12 February 2008, 19:24

allright! good thing I did not spare the money on that

orange · 13 February 2008, 14:50

er, how about just using setpatch from os3.9?
I think I have had no problems at all with it and 120Gb HDD, pfs3, KS3.1, WB3.1, a1200 builtin IDE
just don't write anything to 'higher' partitions before reboot.

thomas · 13 February 2008, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I'll test with huge hardfile someday.. Either 8G limit is real or it is yet another stupid Amiga rumour..

Don't bother, I am testing it right now.

The first result is that an inquiry command sent by HD_SCSICMD reports only 16514064 blocks while the HDF actually is 20 GB. So you cannot even partition more than 8 GB of the drive. I will force it to 20 GB, create a bunch of 2 GB partitions with PFS3ds and format them one after the other. Let's see how it shows.

thomas · 13 February 2008, 19:36

I don't even need to format them. A quick format already revealed a "write error 5 in block 0" for each partition which starts above the 8 GB limit. So scsi.device does not allow accesses outsize the first 8 GB with HD_SCSICMD.

This was tested with scsi.device 40.12 for an A4000. But I assume that the other Amiga models have the same restriction.

Toni Wilen · 13 February 2008, 19:49

But least this is better than silent data corruption..

btw, I just remembed this (from WinUAE changelog):

"Interesting note: A600/A1200 and A4000 KS IDE drivers are totally different, for example A4000 uses LBA addressing but A600/A1200 uses CHS. I don't see the point when the only hardware differences basically are base IO address and different interrupt register.."

thomas · 13 February 2008, 20:41

Now tested with A1200 and A600 rom/chipset, too. The result is always the same.

thomas · 13 February 2008, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange

er, how about just using setpatch from os3.9?
I think I have had no problems at all with it and 120Gb HDD, pfs3, KS3.1, WB3.1, a1200 builtin IDE
just don't write anything to 'higher' partitions before reboot.

The ROM update is one of the major parts of OS 3.9 which was criticised by its opponents. So IMHO if you use the ROM update you could use the rest of OS 3.9 as well. IMHO it's inconsistent to say "I don't like OS 3.9" and use 1/2 of it at the same time.

If I wanted to stick with 3.1 and use large hard drives I'd extract scsi.device from the ROM update and use it with LoadModule or BlizKick. This way only the needed parts of OS 3.9 would be used.

But to answer your question, yes, if the AmigaOS ROM Update is in Devs, SetPatch updates scsi.device and makes large harddrives available. But it only works with PFS3ds, not with the TD64 version of PFS3. The updated scsi.device does not support TD64.

keropi · 13 February 2008, 22:33

so thomas, what is the bottom line when using the Elbox 4xEIDE'99 ? Is it nescessary to use the DS version of PFS3?
I *think* that if it's driver is like the FastATA one then normal PFS and no other patches will be OK, am I right? Can I just partition the HD (with a 3.1WB disk+driver) and see if it works after a reboot?
I could use 3.9 , but I would like to stick with ClassicWB for this amiga...

Hewitson · 14 February 2008, 01:44

keropi I suggest this program:

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/check4gb

thomas · 14 February 2008, 07:35

Quote:

Can I just partition the HD (with a 3.1WB disk+driver) and see if it works after a reboot?

Yes, with PFS3 this should be safe, because PFS3 checks if 64bit commands are available. Don't try this with FFS.

Running Check4GB doesn't hurt nevertheless.

keropi · 14 February 2008, 07:36

thank you all!

11 February 2008, 09:43	#1
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	A1200 + KS3.1 + ClassicWB + PFS3 , am I safe with 4+GB HD? As topic, will PFS3 usage on a wb3.1 system allow me to use SAFELLY a hard disk larger than 4GB? thanks!

11 February 2008, 11:59	#3
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	PFS3DS? is it part of the PFS3? I have the original CD... thanks Toni! edit: just checked my installation CD, there is also a PFS3DS version Last edited by keropi; 11 February 2008 at 12:30.

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11 February 2008, 10:48	#2
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	PFS3DS should be safe. Non-DirectSCSI version IS NOT safe without scsi.device update or idefix or similar.

11 February 2008, 22:33	#5
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	so thomas what is your suggestion? I install a small boot parition ~500-600MB with PFS3 , then just install IDEfix and afterwards configure the rest of the HD space with PFS3? I will use a 12GB 2.5" one... (or do I still need PFS3DS with idefix?)

11 February 2008, 23:46	#6
EmuChicken Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nagoya, Japan (moved!) Age: 41 Posts: 746	is SFS oldhat now or something? :/

12 February 2008, 08:35	#7
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	I'll test with huge hardfile someday.. Either 8G limit is real or it is yet another stupid Amiga rumour..

12 February 2008, 18:37	#8
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	as a sidenote, I have purchased an Elbox 4xEIDE'99 interface, will it help to overcome scsi.device limits like the FastATA?

12 February 2008, 19:24	#10
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	allright! good thing I did not spare the money on that

13 February 2008, 14:50	#11
orange Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Belgrade Posts: 567	er, how about just using setpatch from os3.9? I think I have had no problems at all with it and 120Gb HDD, pfs3, KS3.1, WB3.1, a1200 builtin IDE just don't write anything to 'higher' partitions before reboot.

13 February 2008, 19:36	#13
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	I don't even need to format them. A quick format already revealed a "write error 5 in block 0" for each partition which starts above the 8 GB limit. So scsi.device does not allow accesses outsize the first 8 GB with HD_SCSICMD. This was tested with scsi.device 40.12 for an A4000. But I assume that the other Amiga models have the same restriction.

13 February 2008, 19:49	#14
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	But least this is better than silent data corruption.. btw, I just remembed this (from WinUAE changelog): "Interesting note: A600/A1200 and A4000 KS IDE drivers are totally different, for example A4000 uses LBA addressing but A600/A1200 uses CHS. I don't see the point when the only hardware differences basically are base IO address and different interrupt register.."

13 February 2008, 20:41	#15
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	Now tested with A1200 and A600 rom/chipset, too. The result is always the same.

13 February 2008, 22:33	#17
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	so thomas, what is the bottom line when using the Elbox 4xEIDE'99 ? Is it nescessary to use the DS version of PFS3? I think that if it's driver is like the FastATA one then normal PFS and no other patches will be OK, am I right? Can I just partition the HD (with a 3.1WB disk+driver) and see if it works after a reboot? I could use 3.9 , but I would like to stick with ClassicWB for this amiga...

14 February 2008, 01:44	#18
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,772	keropi I suggest this program: http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/check4gb

14 February 2008, 07:36	#20
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	thank you all!

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