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Old 22 August 2018, 01:31   #21
idrougge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post
Does anyone have any experience with these cheap Chinese tweezers?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aoyu...829958281.html
Oh yes, they're absolutely worthless.
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Old 22 August 2018, 02:52   #22
nexus
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they should be fine to get the job done correctly might not last forever though

i would look for ones like these though
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soldering-D...sAAOSwHZhbO85W
https://www.ebay.com/itm/230V-48W-SM...sAAOSw9gRZ70pD
as they dot use plastic nuts for the heating element

thats one of the cheap things these china irons have and over time it will warp and pop off

Last edited by nexus; 22 August 2018 at 03:12.
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Old 22 August 2018, 03:43   #23
idrougge
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They do not work at all. The tips can't be fastened correctly and hence do not align, and heat transfer is horrible.
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Old 22 August 2018, 04:39   #24
nexus
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well that doesnt mean they wont do the job
people here already said they use it and is fine sooo
it maybe be horrible not saying it isnt but to do a job it should be fine
not like you are gonna be using it daily or something
like buying harbor freight cheap shit to do jobs
if it breaks so what it was cheap but at least you didnt spend a ton on a tool that you will seldom use

just fyi if desoldering stuff that is on huge big ground planes etc its gonna be harder due to them sinking away the heat from the iron
but in this case you are using 2 irons 1 on each side so shouldnt really be a issue here

Last edited by nexus; 22 August 2018 at 04:49.
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Old 22 August 2018, 12:11   #25
idrougge
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I'd be interested to compare notes with Supaduper since our experiences with the Ayoue kit differs so vastly.

I'm otherwise very satisfied with my Ayoue soldering station, it's the tweezers that just don't hold up.
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Old 22 August 2018, 13:19   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
I'd be interested to compare notes with Supaduper since our experiences with the Ayoue kit differs so vastly.

I'm otherwise very satisfied with my Ayoue soldering station, it's the tweezers that just don't hold up.
To clarify...for normal light hobbyist work no problem but if used daily and driven hard then I will imagine like any cheapo Chinese stuff then you get what you pay for
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Old 22 August 2018, 13:20   #27
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I basically couldn't get it to lift a single capacitor.
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Old 22 August 2018, 14:30   #28
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
I basically couldn't get it to lift a single capacitor.
Guess you got a bad one set of tweezers, I have used it many times on SMD caps like on the CD32 obviously with copious amounts of flux
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Old 22 August 2018, 19:51   #29
nogginthenog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexus View Post
they should be fine to get the job done correctly might not last forever though

i would look for ones like these though
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soldering-D...sAAOSwHZhbO85W
https://www.ebay.com/itm/230V-48W-SM...sAAOSw9gRZ70pD
as they dot use plastic nuts for the heating element

thats one of the cheap things these china irons have and over time it will warp and pop off
I would prefer one with I can plug into my solder station with the round 5 pin connector. I might give it a try anyway as they're cheap.
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Old 23 August 2018, 03:18   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexus View Post
that twist method is retarded and can cost you ripped pads
Any method to remove SMD caps can cause ripped pads, especially if you don't do it perfectly.

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and to the guy above have you used a microscope to inspect your work? im sure you cause damage to pads
If you are referring to me then you are wrong. I inspect my work very closely and like I said the only time I have lifted a pad is with the Hot Air method.

Quote:
and also unlike the guy above heating 1 side will not hurt the pad
ripping and twisting is waaay worse
Have you tried twisting them off yourself? From your comments it is clear you haven't. You don't rip them off the board. You don't pull them off the board. When you twist it just right the legs break usually above the plastic retainer. not near the feet or the pads. I was skeptical too but it does work if you are careful and do it right.
The problem with heating one side is that it usually involves lifting that side up, then heating the other side and lifting that side up. It is the lifting part that can be hard on the pads, not necessarily heating one side then the other.
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Old 23 August 2018, 04:58   #31
nexus
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so basically you are telling me this is how they teach you in school?
what if corrosion had already damage the pad etc and then you go ripping it off like that?
you know it isnt correct so stop acting like it is
and i had to repair many boards with traces/pads pulled due to smd components being twisted and knocked also a lot are glued down too so that could also rip the mask up
its bad enough you have to stress the board when soldering no need to add more stress by ripping caps off with pliers
anyways its a bad thing to teach people who cant fix a issue that may happen when using this method
those that cut corners and do that also can repair the fuck up that may happen

Last edited by nexus; 23 August 2018 at 05:06.
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Old 23 August 2018, 10:02   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy Zapp View Post
Any method to remove SMD caps can cause ripped pads, especially if you don't do it perfectly.
True, but some methods, when done correctly, exert little to no force on the pads, thereby reducing the risk to almost zero.

Quote:
the only time I have lifted a pad is with the Hot Air method.
Then, either the pad was already destroyed and would not survive any method of removal, or you did it wrong. Very wrong. Melting *all* the solder joints holding a part down at once is the only way to eliminate mechanical stress from the removal process.

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Have you tried twisting them off yourself? From your comments it is clear you haven't.
Have you tried driving without a seatbelt? Just because you haven't been in a collision yet where you needed it, doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. You've been lucky enough to have pads that are strong enough to withstand the stresses you put them under - stresses they were never intended to bear.

Quote:
You don't rip them off the board. You don't pull them off the board. When you twist it just right the legs break usually above the plastic retainer. not near the feet or the pads. I was skeptical too but it does work if you are careful and do it right.
Did your skepticism extend to considering on what your torsional forces are reacting?

Quote:
The problem with heating one side is that it usually involves lifting that side up, then heating the other side and lifting that side up. It is the lifting part that can be hard on the pads, not necessarily heating one side then the other.
Indeed, it's a mechanical stress on the remaining pad. Why you can't see that similar forces in another plane are acting on the pads with the twist method, I don't know...

Oh, and going back to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy Zapp View Post
On the other hand, the first time I used a hot air station to remove SMD caps off a sound card I nuked about 4 pads on the one card.
Wow... You're really doing something very wrong there. Are you sure you were using the correct temperature? Are you sure it was a hot air gun and not a blowtorch you were using?

Quote:
The less times you heat the pads the better, IMHO.
While true as a general rule, pads are designed to be heated within certain limits for a certain length of time. They are, after all, designed to be wave or reflow soldered, and will be designed to withstand the reflow profile of capacitors. All you have to do is keep roughly to that profile and you won't burn anything. But you knew that already from your research, right?

What pads are *not* designed for are withstanding mechanical stresses above those exerted by the components during expected use of the board.

Last edited by Daedalus; 23 August 2018 at 10:10.
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