C64 Games worth Conversion?

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by roondar

I know all about Copper reuse of sprites, I did do that 'lets see if I can't fill the entire screen with random sprite data using the copper' thing a while back

However, I really do think you're underestimating the C64 - I'm not saying you can't replicate (most) C64 sprite multiplexers using bobs (and/or sprites, though Amiga sprites lack width compared to C64 sprites so a one-to-one conversion can't be done) on the Amiga, but it's not 'easy' as such. Later life C64 sprite multiplexers could throw some pretty impressive stuff about, both in sprite count and size.

As for tile effects, I was thinking more along the line of tile based animation as seen in say Turrican (see the piranha boss fight, the C64 has the entire screen animating a rather nice looking water effect - note that this effect runs at 50Hz). Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not nearly as easy as you might think initially.

The C64 really was quite impressive from a 'number of pixels moving on screen' perspective. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it could display more sprite pixels in a frame when using a decent multiplexer (during a game anyway) than the Amiga can do bob pixels - assuming both have to use a full size 16 colour screen. Especially if the game to emulate also has an animating background.

Truth bombs being dropped here..
It's easy to have a lot of movement on the C64 screen for free with Sprites and char/tile manipulation.

One big reason that C64 games were almost always 50 fps, while Amiga games sucked ass being 25 fps or even 17 or lower (looking at rolling thunder).

In the end it comes down to what I am saying for years:
The C64 is really easy to get into and get stuff going but in the end hard to master.
The Amiga is really hard to to get into, but easier to master when your stuff is running.

[crazyc]

I just played the raid over Moscow demo. Please please please could this be completed, I loved this game!

[no9]

Star Paws and Usagi Yojimbo with the features that didn't make it into C64 because of its limits.

[Nightshft]

I'd really love to see Project Firestart, although that's not a small project. For a team it could be doable.

+1 for Action Biker (so laid back) and Ghostbusters (just an awesome game, right from program start).

[donnie]

Isnt c64 a pretty bad choice for conversions?

First you have to redo all the art since it would not look good with the garbled streched pixels on an amiga. And its not easy to up-convert art, you have to add information that isnt there. Just look at creatures for amiga. While technically more advanced. It has non of the c64s charm.


Then it would actually be pretty challenging to throw around all of the sprites and stuff the c64 is flexing but in amigas much higher resolutions.

Wouldnt spectrum be a better choice.

Spectrum has alot of cool games,


Look at:

myth
castlevania spectral interlude
sword of liana
gandalf
old tower
bobby carrot

[crazyc]

I guess the amiga was a natural progression for c64 owners.

[nobody]

Ranarama (spectrum or c64).

[DamienD]

Galahad is on this: Atari ST to Amiga Conversion: Ranarama

...but no news in a few years now

[roondar]

Originally Posted by donnie

Isnt c64 a pretty bad choice for conversions?

First you have to redo all the art since it would not look good with the garbled streched pixels on an amiga. And its not easy to up-convert art, you have to add information that isnt there. Just look at creatures for amiga. While technically more advanced. It has non of the c64s charm.


Then it would actually be pretty challenging to throw around all of the sprites and stuff the c64 is flexing but in amigas much higher resolutions.

Wouldnt spectrum be a better choice.

That's an interesting point. But I'm not so sure upgrading Spectrum graphics is really easier as such. While it is true you won't need to deal with the C64's fat pixels, there's still issues to solve.

IMHO, the main issue here is the different resolution used. The Spectrum displays in 256x192, compared to the Amiga's 320x256 (or 320x200). This means that a one-to-one conversion will lead to a rather small screen on the Amiga with horizontally squished graphics (including sprites), or will require you to stretch all the graphics (i.e. 'upconvert' / redraw them). This might even be more challenging than converting the fat pixel graphics of the C64, since they are a neat 1/2 size of the Amiga's native horizontal resolution.

I suppose you could accept the squished graphics and merely change the level lay-out, but it won't look great to anyone who knows the original. Personally, I think both are tricky to do well.

[donnie]

Thats true!

[macce2]

Clavell's Shogun (platform game).
Spyhunter!
Pyjamarama.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by roondar

That's an interesting point. But I'm not so sure upgrading Spectrum graphics is really easier as such. While it is true you won't need to deal with the C64's fat pixels, there's still issues to solve.

IMHO, the main issue here is the different resolution used. The Spectrum displays in 256x192, compared to the Amiga's 320x256 (or 320x200). This means that a one-to-one conversion will lead to a rather small screen on the Amiga with horizontally squished graphics (including sprites), or will require you to stretch all the graphics (i.e. 'upconvert' / redraw them). This might even be more challenging than converting the fat pixel graphics of the C64, since they are a neat 1/2 size of the Amiga's native horizontal resolution.

I suppose you could accept the squished graphics and merely change the level lay-out, but it won't look great to anyone who knows the original. Personally, I think both are tricky to do well.

Was thinking: convert in example Everyone's a Wally from Spectrum, but leaving the monochromatic look - of course without Colour Clash; that game is underrated a bit also because in my opinion the colour clash makes difficult to follow things.
Might be abstract but that is one of the advantages of using an Amiga, you can do several styles, you don't have to push graphics and sound all the time.

Same concept was the main drive for all artistic movements after Photography invention: since the duty of reality portrayal did not longer apply, artists now were allowed to experiment with new means and styles of painting that gave new expressions and ideas that now might even feel normal or taken for granted.

This will scruffle some feathers but i need to say it: is NOT REQUIRED to push the machine limits for every game and utility: there are lot of games that might have sucky graphics or sound but are tremendously playable or atmospheric! If i want a game to look like ZX81 because i think that making it look like ZX81 will add value then I can do it! Lots of indie do this approach on PC, and i want to employ Amiga as a modern creative machine, not a memorabilia one stuck in a single style to do things!

[roondar]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Was thinking: convert in example Everyone's a Wally but leaving the monochromatic look - of course without Colour Clash; that game is underrated a bit also because in my opinion the colour clash makes difficult to follow things

If you want the 'high res' look of speccy monochrome, you could also use a hi-res screen to really make it something special

More seriously: if you were to do a "Everyone's a Wally" conversion, would that also mean redrawing all graphics to suit the Amiga's different aspect ratio? Or would you be fine with all the graphics looking 25% less wide?

Because I'm still not 100% convinced that'll look like how you'd want it. It's basically the same problem as converting from or to the SNES - the graphics will look either stretched or squished unless you redraw them.

On the topic of monochrome and "high res", there's also a couple of high res (320x200) C64 games. Those tend to be less colourful, but do keep the charm of the Spectrums looks. They sometimes even have attribute clashing :P


Would those be good candidates for conversion here?

[saimon69]

Well what i thought was the ZX version but without the colour clash

[sparhawk]

I would like to see Trollie Wallie. Liked that game so that I finally beat it on an emulator after many years. Without cheating of course.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by roondar

More seriously: if you were to do a "Everyone's a Wally" conversion, would that also mean redrawing all graphics to suit the Amiga's different aspect ratio? Or would you be fine with all the graphics looking 25% less wide?

Why not just run them on a 256x192 screen on the Amiga? Sure, the borders will be larger than on a 320x256 screen, but the graphics will look correct.

It's basically the same problem as converting from or to the SNES

Not really, the pixels are square(ish) on both Amiga and Spectrum (at least in PAL), so the graphics will look almost 1:1.

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by britelite

Not really, the pixels are square(ish) on both Amiga and Spectrum (at least in PAL), so the graphics will look almost 1:1.

True that is

[roondar]

Originally Posted by britelite

Why not just run them on a 256x192 screen on the Amiga? Sure, the borders will be larger than on a 320x256 screen, but the graphics will look correct.

A 256x192 screen is really small though, I was thinking more along the lines of a full-screen/near full screen conversion effort (considering Amiga games often get flak for not being full screen). That said, it's certainly possible if you don't mind having around 40% of the screen being empty space.

I'll freely admit it makes more sense than my idea of re-scaling all graphics, though

Not really, the pixels are square(ish) on both Amiga and Spectrum (at least in PAL), so the graphics will look almost 1:1.

I should probably have actually checked this first instead of assuming they'd be different because of the 256 number. But indeed, you are 100% correct that the aspect ratio is not that different after all. No idea why I thought it would be given the Spectrum isn't known for odd-shaped pixels (unlike the SNES, which is).

So, consider me corrected

[Dunny]

Another vote for Cyclone, and the amazingly good fun Kickstart II.

Edit: Regarding conversions of Sinclair Spectrum games. Yes, the resolution is 256x192. But that does not mean you have to use that - you have double the CPU power and way more graphics power than a speccy, so just use bigger screens!

"But Dunny, that's not possible!" you cry. Well, it is. Not for all the games out there, but it is. For example:

Cyclone displays a small window onto the game world. Just make that window bigger. Boom!.
Pyjamarama, or other Wally Week games - display small portions adjacent map screens at the edge of the current screen, to fill the gaps.
Same for say, Sabre Wulf - just display more of the map in the edges of the screen where there would be blank space. It's not like we don't have the power to do that.

[sandruzzo]

@roondar

Rygar is 256*192, and don't seems tìso bad, quiet the opposite! Beside, you'll have a lot of free dma cycles that'll give you a lot of edge...