Mission Elevator sound (yet again?) - Page 3

amilo3438 · 15 December 2016, 15:08

Well, except the sound problem, there might be one more problem present !? (maybe not - see EDIT below)

For example, in Atari ST version (on the emu) the main character moves faster and on Amiga emu slower.
(of course, this should be tested on a real Amiga too)

I noticed, if enable the "Immediate Blitter" in latest WinUAE the character will move faster.
(now not sure is that speed correct as too lazy to test/compare it with my real A500)

EDIT: But I found an video where it compares different versions! (seems it was done on a real computers)

Let's Compare: Mission Elevator (C64/CPC/Spectrum/ST/Amiga) -> [ Show youtube player ]

Playlist:
00:13 - Commodore C64
07:07 - Amstrad/Schneider CPC
15:25 - Sinclair ZX Spectrum
22:31 - Atari ST/STe
30:25 - Commodore Amiga

On the video, the Amiga versions also run slower than ST version and what is interesting the sound bug appeared too at 32:06 in video !?

I am a little confused now; if that is done on a real Amiga and the sound problem appeared, is there any problem with this game at all in the WinUAE ?
(except that in the WinUAE the sound problem appears quite often)

amilo3438 · 09 January 2017, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

WinUAE 2.3.1 beta series: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=55757

Does beta series of WinUAE 2.3.1 still exist somewhere because download links (in above) does not work anymore ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Finding last working beta is the next step.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

WinUAE 2.3.0 (2010.09.24) = last working official !
WinUAE 2.3.1 (2011.02.26) = 1st problematic official !

To fast locate the sound problem is enough at the 1st flour to walk between the lift and the chair several times ! (or until the sound problem appears)

For now only 1st problematic "official" was possible to find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

There is still, possibly only 1-2 cycle, timing difference.

We will never know until find in what beta it starts to happen !

Edit: It could happen that the problem is not in the cycle timing difference, but somewhere else !

Also, it is possible to notice that the movement is not so smooth after the winuae 2.3.0 version!

Toni Wilen · 10 January 2017, 15:33

I deleted all old betas to save space. They are not coming back to new site but if there is some other place.

btw, no guessed without real hardware tests! Something looking or feeling wrong means nothing without proof!

DamienD · 10 January 2017, 15:37

I thought you said in post #41 that it seems to happen on a real Amiga too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

I am a little confused now; if that is done on a real Amiga and the sound problem appeared, is there any problem with this game at all in the WinUAE ?
(except that in the WinUAE the sound problem appears quite often)

So this seems like a game issue... Asman said he needed to patch quite a lot in the WHDLoad version to get this working.

If you're using WinUAE just use the WHDLoad version and I now am

amilo3438 · 10 January 2017, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

I thought you said in post #41 that it seems to happen on a real Amiga too?

So this seems like a game issue... Asman said he needed to patch quite a lot in the WHDLoad version to get this working.

If you're using WinUAE just use the WHDLoad version and I now am

I thought you said in post #7 that it happened in WinUAE 2.3.0 too, hmm, but I have tested it a lot on that version and it never happened. (so, it could be more similar to the mentioned video in the post #41 than next versions)

Btw. the solution is not to use WHDLoad, because if so, there would never be a need to make a winuae better (read more accurate) as all WHDLoad stuffs already worked well on older versions of winuae.

amilo3438 · 10 January 2017, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I deleted all old betas to save space. They are not coming back to new site but if there is some other place.

btw, no guessed without real hardware tests! Something looking or feeling wrong means nothing without proof!

Hmm, I am a little surprised that you're sounds not interested to find and see what changes in one of winuae2.3.1 betas produces that problem !?

(But if you find a way to send me those betas, I can find the problematic beta for you.)

I agree it needs also testing on a real hardware, but as it behaves now is probably not close, as it happens more often.

Edit:
Fast and simple test for winuae and on a real hardware would be:
At the 1st flour walk between the lift and the chair several times !

If the sound problem happens frequently same on both, winuae and a real hardware, no problem.

DamienD · 10 January 2017, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

I thought you said in post #7 that it happened in WinUAE 2.3.0 too, hmm, but I have tested it a lot on that version and it never happened.

Yes, happened for me with v2.3.0 from memory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

(so, it could be more similar to the mentioned video in the post #41 than next versions)

Isn't the YouTube video you linked to a recording of somebody playing the game on a real Amiga?

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

Btw. the solution is not to use WHDLoad, because if so, there would never be a need to make a winuae better (read more accurate) as all WHDLoad stuffs already worked well on older versions of winuae.

Not really sure what you're getting at with this comment...

WHDLoad is a tool to play games from a hard drive, also on later Amiga models these original floppy disks wouldn't work. Corrections to any bugs in the original floppy disks are also patched thanks to the slave coders.

amilo3438 · 10 January 2017, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Yes, happened for me with v2.3.0 from memory.

Isn't the YouTube video you linked to a recording of somebody playing the game on a real Amiga?

Not really sure what you're getting at with this comment...

WHDLoad is a tool to play games from a hard drive, also on later Amiga models these original floppy disks wouldn't work. Corrections to any bugs in the original floppy disks are also patched thanks to the slave coders.

So, it happened with v 2.3.0 then, but now it doesn't?

Yeah, it seems very clearly that yt-video is made on a real hardware.
(I don't know if there exist a such nice filter for winuae.

)

IMHO, beside of a tool to play from a hard drive, there is a lots of patches applied into every WHDLoad to make thinks work. (that's what I meant, or in other words it can't help to improve winuae accuracy)

DamienD · 10 January 2017, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

So, it happened with v 2.3.0 then, but now it doesn't?

Ok, just re-read all posts in this thread.

Yes back when I tested, the issue occurred for me using v2.3.0.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

IMHO, beside of a tool to play from a hard drive, there is a lots of patches applied into every WHDLoad to make thinks work. (that's what I meant, or in other words it can't help to improve winuae accuracy)

It's not about improving WinUAE's accuracy; if there's an issue with the original game on floppy disk and it also occurs on a real Amiga (as per your linked video) then it's not a WinUAE issue...

Anyway, obviously I cannot post the small self-booting WHDLoad .HDF on EAB as it contains a Kickstart ROM.

I will however upload and send you a link so that you can try it

...use a Quickstart "A1200 - 4MB Fast RAM expanded configuration".

amilo3438 · 10 January 2017, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

It's not about improving WinUAE's accuracy; if there's an issue with the original game on floppy disk and it also occurs on a real Amiga (as per your linked video) then it's not a WinUAE issue...

Anyway, obviously I cannot post the small self-booting WHDLoad .HDF on EAB as it contains a Kickstart ROM.

I will however upload and send you a link so that you can try it

...use a Quickstart "A1200 - 4MB Fast RAM expanded configuration".

Yeah, but the problem happens so frequently in versions after v2.3.0, and that is the point. (Even I didn't managed to repeat it on v2.3.0 ever, but you said it happened.)

Thanks for hd version, but that is also not the point.

(v2.3.0 already works fine for me)

Toni Wilen · 10 January 2017, 19:14

I am going to analyze this (again) more carefully sometime in the future. It happens far too commonly. (But game sound code is bad, it just accidentally works..)

DamienD · 10 January 2017, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

(But game sound code is bad, it just accidentally works..)

Totally agree Toni, as has been proven from the "real" Amiga video

amilo3438 · 10 January 2017, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I am going to analyze this (again) more carefully sometime in the future. It happens far too commonly. (But game sound code is bad, it just accidentally works..)

"Sometime in the future" sounds so promising!

Also, without finding problematic v2.3.1 beta (if still exist somewhere) there are not much hope. (but OK, as you wish)

DamienD · 10 January 2017, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

"Sometime in the future" sounds so promising!

Seriously man, Toni has said he will investigate... That should be enough to make anyone happy (and usually is).

...except maybe you!!! No need to be a twat about it; be patient

You have other alternatives available that definitely work 100% but yet you still press Toni constantly... You haven't even been bothered to opened my PM with the link to the self booting WHDLoad .HDF that I created which will solve all your issues (as it did mine)

We are very lucky that Toni is sooooo devoted and here on EAB constantly to help / assist / debug / improve. Most emulator authors would totally ignore your post (especially when very negative / sarcastic).

amilo3438 · 10 January 2017, 20:23

Seriously man, I don't understand how you thinking, but there must be some big misunderstanding from your side.

Btw. I didn't open the pm yet because I am momentary on tablet and not on PC.

Also,there are no need to pressurize no one, so take your time as needed Toni. (that was my message)
Hope its now a little bit clearer.

DamienD · 10 January 2017, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

Seriously man, I don't understand how you thinking, but there must be some big misunderstanding from your side.

If I've misunderstood then I apologise, let's move on

prowler · 11 January 2017, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

"Sometime in the future" sounds so promising!

Also, without finding problematic v2.3.1 beta (if still exist somewhere) there are not much hope. (but OK, as you wish)

I can upload the WinUAE 2.3.1 beta series 1-13 for you tomorrow if you really want to test them.

amilo3438 · 11 January 2017, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

I can upload the WinUAE 2.3.1 beta series 1-13 for you tomorrow if you really want to test them.

Yes, I would like to test them.

Asman · 11 January 2017, 12:10

I think that we need a real hardware test with this game. Perhaps ZEUSDAZ can check this game for his New "Sh*t Game Time" video

amilo3438 · 11 January 2017, 12:32

Yeah, I agree, but we already have that in #41 post yt-video!

What we need is to make a test on a real hardware to be similar to test on a winuae!

My proposal is to test it on the way I tested it as it's fast and simple:
At the 1st flour walk between the lift and the chair several times ! (or until the problem appears) (EDIT: At least two minutes !)

11 January 2017, 12:32	#60
amilo3438 Amiga 500 User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: EU Posts: 1,501	Yeah, I agree, but we already have that in #41 post yt-video! What we need is to make a test on a real hardware to be similar to test on a winuae! My proposal is to test it on the way I tested it as it's fast and simple: At the 1st flour walk between the lift and the chair several times ! (or until the problem appears) (EDIT: At least two minutes !) Last edited by amilo3438; 11 January 2017 at 19:05.

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15 December 2016, 15:08	#41
amilo3438 Amiga 500 User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: EU Posts: 1,501	Well, except the sound problem, there might be one more problem present !? (maybe not - see EDIT below) For example, in Atari ST version (on the emu) the main character moves faster and on Amiga emu slower. (of course, this should be tested on a real Amiga too) I noticed, if enable the "Immediate Blitter" in latest WinUAE the character will move faster. (now not sure is that speed correct as too lazy to test/compare it with my real A500) EDIT: But I found an video where it compares different versions! (seems it was done on a real computers) Let's Compare: Mission Elevator (C64/CPC/Spectrum/ST/Amiga) -> [ Show youtube player ] Playlist: 00:13 - Commodore C64 07:07 - Amstrad/Schneider CPC 15:25 - Sinclair ZX Spectrum 22:31 - Atari ST/STe 30:25 - Commodore Amiga On the video, the Amiga versions also run slower than ST version and what is interesting the sound bug appeared too at 32:06 in video !? I am a little confused now; if that is done on a real Amiga and the sound problem appeared, is there any problem with this game at all in the WinUAE ? (except that in the WinUAE the sound problem appears quite often) Last edited by amilo3438; 15 December 2016 at 15:53.

10 January 2017, 15:33	#43
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	I deleted all old betas to save space. They are not coming back to new site but if there is some other place. btw, no guessed without real hardware tests! Something looking or feeling wrong means nothing without proof!

10 January 2017, 19:14	#51
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	I am going to analyze this (again) more carefully sometime in the future. It happens far too commonly. (But game sound code is bad, it just accidentally works..)

10 January 2017, 20:23	#55
amilo3438 Amiga 500 User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: EU Posts: 1,501	Seriously man, I don't understand how you thinking, but there must be some big misunderstanding from your side. Btw. I didn't open the pm yet because I am momentary on tablet and not on PC. Also,there are no need to pressurize no one, so take your time as needed Toni. (that was my message) Hope its now a little bit clearer.

11 January 2017, 12:10	#59
Asman 68k Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Somewhere Posts: 828	I think that we need a real hardware test with this game. Perhaps ZEUSDAZ can check this game for his New "Sh*t Game Time" video

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