P.I.D. and Elfmania datadisk graphics released!

[cai24]

Hi all!

First section from my web gallery -the amiga section -is now done. And
as I've been promising you many times here before, I have now released -with housemarque's kind permission- all the unused P.I.Dollarally and Elfmania datadisk materials on my webpage for everyone to see.

Here's a sample from each (you may want to click..)





It took quite a bit of my free time, because I had to go through piles of old disks and transfer them all to PC, then to convert them into GIF's - and there's LOTS of material; and I wanted to preserve them all. That's why it took so long.

I'm sorry that there is no actual code to download;if there was it would be there.
There's also other stuff worth to see; like unused animation tests for the Alien Incident game and my Nemesis the warlock upgrade that was done for Amiga.

http://www.miharinne.1g.fi/amiga/Amiga_index.html

Believe me, I'm really happy to show these out to the world at last. 12 years of wait is quite enough.

[Retro-Nerd]

The animations from the datadisk looks awesome, a shame that they didn't release it. I love the background with the treasure room.

[Ironclaw]

Cool, Elfmania has always been one of my fav games mainly because of the beautiful graphics.

[adolescent]

Good looking stuff in there.

[CFou!]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

The animations from the datadisk looks awesome, a shame that they didn't release it. I love the background with the treasure room.

Really splendid, it is a pity which the 2 games could not be finished

[demoniac]

The gallery is great!

Is that a female poster on the last frame?
http://www.miharinne.1g.fi/amiga/ter...odder_walk.gif

Here's the released version of the Altar/Cartilage split EP cover.
http://www.metal-archives.com/release.php?id=8126

[Ironclaw]

Originally Posted by demoniac

The gallery is great!

Is that a female poster on the last frame?

Yep, that's a poster on the wall :

[cai24]

Yes, it was Stavvys 'butt poster' we did the digitizing in his room. Terramarque office was actually his home, and my home too, it was a 6 room apartment which we all rented together. I wouldn't recommend living in an office, though

thanks for your comments, and thanks for that EP link too!

[candyman]

The site disappeared: can someone help me to find that stuff, please?

[Amiga1992]

Same, would love to see this stuff.
HOL has the P.I. Dollarally stuff:
http://hol.abime.net/5568/screenshot

[s2325]

P.I.D. as slideshow [ Show youtube player ]

[earok]

Thinking about this again since the artist for the original Elf Mania (NOT the original poster) passed away.

Does anyone have the complete set of Elf Mania graphics since the site went 404? Does anyone know anyone who might?

[Steve]

The only way will be to contact the original poster. His last activity was February 2012. Maybe someone know an email address for him? I would like to see this as well.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Akira

Same, would love to see this stuff.
HOL has the P.I. Dollarally stuff:
http://hol.abime.net/5568/screenshot

This looks absolutely awesome

What a shame it was never released and this note on HOL made me sad

Only one semi-playable demo ever existed of this game. That copy has sadly gone to data heaven.

Hello,

I had headsup from an old colleague that this thread was updated and I had to make new profile since I no longer remembered my password and my email had also changed couple of times.

I am glad people are showing interest to my old work again. I have all the stuff (I worked on) from PID and Elfmania, both on my A1200 hard drive and converted into animated .gif's

Lots of stuff has disappeared with my site, which is a bit of shame, because it had lots of animated character portraits. It should be noted that they were planned as animated wallpapers.

I am hoping to release these again, however I need some time and thought to think of best possible place for them. It should also be noted that they are still copyrighted by Housemarque, which may limit their use a little bit.

Right now I have deadline breathing down on me, so I am not able to do anything else, not for couple of months at least..

If I had proper time, I would like to reconstruct those portraits as wallpapers and animate & scroll them, so they would match the original plans. It would feel proper to finish them off. But I have no idea when that is possible. Might take very long time.

Here's some sample gif's for you anyway.

[DamienD]

Hello there mjr,

Your graphics are absolutely awesome

Do you think there will ever be a chance to finish P.I.D.? I get it that you're missing stuff and would probably have to re-create etc...

There are loads of coders on EAB who could possibly help you

Originally Posted by DamienD

Hello there mjr,

Your graphics are absolutely awesome

Do you think there will ever be a chance to finish P.I.D.? I get it that you're missing stuff and would probably have to re-create etc...

There are loads of coders on EAB who could possibly help you

Thank you very much!
I also wish it would be possible to "finish" P.I.D.
However, due to number of reasons, it cannot be finished. It can only be recreated. I give list as of why's.

-Stavros never made it past the rolling demo. The rolling demo is lost, I tried to search for it but in vain.
-I could only describe the game and what happens in it, or what was supposed to happen, from my memory, as what I remember from my discussions with him. And he didn't necessarily tell me everything.
-Legally, the project is property of Housemarque, and their permission would be needed
-The way background graphics is built is time-consuming to the extreme. I would not want to go building the levels they were originally meant to be built, therefore making it run on stock amigas would be impossible. You would need at least 8mb ram and HD install support.
-I don't even have all the background art and car sprites, as I wasn't so heavily involved with those. They could be mined from Housemarque's A1200, but again that would take time. And they were not all finished.
- Even if source code could be located and recovered from A1200 hard disk that is at the HMQ storage room, it is probably highly optimized spaghetti which would be extremely difficult to build upon. You would need to re-engineer it and build it from the scratch in order to be able to work with it. Also, the cars had surprisingly complex physics (each wheel was modelled and had their own traction, you could do sliding and other driving stunts that are common these days in car games but were absent back then). It would take time to figure it all out and make it run 50fps on unaccelerated Amiga. Technically the game was every bit as ambitious as Elfmania, which had some unusually complicated things (such as neural net and individual strong/weak points for every character and AI that was able to exploit it) running under the hood.

To summarize it; recreating P.I.D would take years and hundreds of man hours, and it is likely that Stavros would not be pleased, if other people would start messing around with his baby. Even though PID is legally owned by Housemarque, not Stavros (AFAIK), I would still advice against recreating the game. Just believe me on this one.

Best thing I can do, and I would be able to do some day maybe, would be to create mock-up video using animation software which could give you an illusion of what the game could actually have been. To make them run on amiga under some code would be tempting, but that would quickly lead to other things, and I don't want to open that particular can of worms. I am sorry.

Same goes for Elfmania datadisk: Elfmania is already built-in to support the data disk, but most of the character art is unfinished, and making the characters for that game is exceedingly laborious due to memory-saving tricks: after animating the characters, the sprites were sliced in horizontal parts, which were recycled all over the sequences in order to save the memory. And sometimes you had to alter the animation in order to recycle more parts. And thats why the animation in that game was smooth but bit flat, really. And I dont even want to think what it would take to figure out how the code for Elfmania works.

[earok]

Welcome back and all that!

I'm quite interested in the Elfmania datadisk thing. When I first heard about the datadisk I wondered if it was possible to simply "paste" the new characters over top of the old ones in order to get around needing to integrate the data disk with the core game, but I figure with what you've just explained about the horizontal slicing that wouldn't work either :/

[TCD]

Since Miha's old website is down and I just got the backup to add some images to HOL I think it's a good opportunity to add the diary of the Elfmania data disk to this thread:

1. Description of goals

Videodigitizing of Kor-Wa is a part of Datadisk project to help graphician´s work of doing the character animation. The videodigitizing prosedure is divided to two distinct stages: S1) Videoshooting with model to provide material for graphician use. S2) To actually digitize and choose proper frames of videotape by graphician.


2. Assignments

Project Management(PM):IK
Graphician(GF):MR
Stunt model(ST):MH


2.1 Timetables

Videoshooting and digitizing was made in 26th and 27th of April, 1994. The order of events is detailed below:

14.15 team is gathered together:(IK,MH,MR;) renting of a video camera
14.30 introducing the idea of Datadisk characters to ST and GF, especially Kor-Wa and Elfmania concept in general, testplaying and valuating the movements of finished Elfmania character movement to avoid repetition in the case of Kor-Wa
15.30 setting up the hardware and shooting facilities; explaining the videoshooting process
16.00 final planning, practicing and chance of ideas
17.50 actual shooting (was delayed because of technical problems)
20.35 break
21.15 evaluation of shot material; ST and GF tried to find out the best takes for the digitizing
21.45 videoshooting session ends

27th of April
02.15 videodigitizing:(GF + small assistance by PM)
12.15. digitizing ends

Followup
06/07/09-06-94 PM
totalmenworkhours 1) 1 h
-additions to this report (i.e. Hardware -where did we get it?)

Used time (rough estimates)
1)Planning 6-7h ( 4-5 hours by PM + 2(+?)hours by ST and GF)
2)Practicing 3h (1 hour:ST,GF,PM)
3)Shooting 6h45min (2 h 45 min ( ST,GF); 1h 15 min PM)
4)Evaluation 1h30min (30 min:PM,GF,ST)
5)Digitizing 11h (10 h GF; 1 h PM)
6)Followup 3-4 h PM

Total amount of time used: 31 h 15 min -33 h 15 min+? total menwork hours

PM 10h45min-12h45min
GF 15h15min
ST 5h15min
Total 31h30min-33h30min

2.2 Resources

Personel: S1) ST and GF (+additional assistance by PM)
S2) GF (+possible assistance by PM)

Hardware: S1) videocamera
television/monitor
videorecorder
needed cables to connect tv to videorecorder and videos to camera
clapper board (klaffi ottojen erottamista varten)
other considerations and possibilities: power supplies and needed electrical cables,
clothes, some kind of soft mat

S2) monitor
Amiga plus enough memory
videodigitizer + software
videorecorder
needed cables and power sources
recorded videomaterial from videoshooting session
storagespace (hard disk/floppy)

Space:to work: S1) big enough room to execute the stunt movements
S2) working facilities for digitizing


3. Description of the organization of the project

PM took care of organizing the videoshooting session and digitizing. He gave assistance during both stages 1&2.

GF was the director of the shootings and responsible for digitizing. He also was the main designer and decided which frames and movements were animated.

ST performed the needed stunts during videoshooting and was partly responsible for the design of Kor-Wa´s movements.


5. Comments

The whole "miniproject" of making material for the character digitizing and preparing it for the use of graphican can be divided to a few separate stages:

1) Planning
Planning the movements: GF and ST should together plan all the choreography before shooting even starts. All the previous movements and experiences should be taken account and remember all the restrictions that doing the characters have (i.e. number of frames: no room for several superimpressive movements).
Should take approx. 10-20 menwork hours

Planning the timetable:
A)making a timetable for the shooting, set a date for shooting and inform and all participants and relevant people;
B)make sure that every equipment and piece of hardware is available at the time of shooting and make reservations of the equipment, if necessary;
C)confirm that the needed space is available for the shooting and digitizing

2) Practicing
All the movements should be practiced beforehand and the final practice is just before the shooting, when ST and GF have a chance to view the movements on TV-screen. Also a perfect final planning possibility.
Should take approx. 3-10 menwork hours

3) Shooting
Shooting should be done with the aid of movie claff. It means that every take is numbered to separate one from another, which helps graphican to find the right takes. In addition, extra information on what movement is performed has proven to be usefull.
Should take approx. 6-12 menwork hours per character

4) Evaluation and possible additional shootings
ST and GF playback the recorded material and decide, which are the best ones to digitize. This one should be easy if the proper methods of numbering the takes have been done. If there seems to be something missing, then additional shootings should be done immediately
Should take approx. 2-4 menwork hours plus additional shooting time

5) Digitizing
GF digitizes the best takes, which were selected during a evaluation session earlier.
Should take approx. 3-8 menwork hours per character

6) Followup
ST and GF should make a followup report to list ideas and telling the problems and solutions. All this information should be recorded for further use and to help future projects. The comments of GF how the digitized material helped animation work could be usefull.
Should take approx. 2-5 menwork hours


6. Further recommendations

General
-the whole session should be planned carefully to avoid unnecessary work
-there should be a planned break during the shootings, because it is very tiresome for ST to perform stunt
movements for many hours in a row
-the project should be planned and executed by ST and GF; only the possible permission and recommendations should come from PM

Hardware -where did we get it?
S1) -a videocamera: Thorn Emi p.624 184, Kaivokatu 10, Helsinki (also in Mannerheimintie)
-a videorecorder and TV: Jani
-needed cables to connect tv to videorecorder and videos to camera:TMQ+Vcamera cable
-clapper board (klaffi ottojen erottamista varten):TMQ
-power supplies and needed electrical cables:TMQ

S2) - a monitor:Jani l. JA
-Amiga500 (plus additional memory): Tapsa l. AT
-videodigitizer + software:TMQ
-videorecorder:JA
-needed cables and power sources:TMQ
-storagespace (hard disk):AT

Shooting
Making a video cameras picture to show in a TVscreen
-in order to get the picture from camera to tv do as following
1) connect all the cables correctly: camera to video and video to tv
2) set videocamera to pause mode
3) set the video to receive cameras output (AV)
4) set the tv channel correctly
The only drawback is, that the video shuts down automatically from pause mode

Shutter speed of the videocamera
-Shutter speed should be set correctly (1/50) to get a sharp picture. If lightning permits, it can be set to much higher than 1/50.

Using the claff and keeping records
- the proper numbering each and every take is very important, it saves time and make the whole work more structured
- take number should be changed with every take; even if it seems to take so much time. This is very important, because it helps to file the information for the further use and helps GF to find the correct spot in videotape, when actual digitizing is done
-the claff should be kept in the front of the camera long enough to record the information to tape
Example of the claff information:
#EMBED MSDraw \* yhdmuot###
-filming diary should be kept to keep the track of time, takes and movements
Example of the filming diary information:
Filming diary KOR-WA 26/4/94
>From ...to: filming 17.50-20.35
evaluation 21.15-21.45
Total amount used
filming: 2h 45 min
evaluation: 30 min (too short, need more time)

Movement Takes
00 Stondis 001, 002; second of 002 the best
01 Walk 002, 003, 023; the first of 023 is the one!
etc.

Stunt cordination
- the model should start the movements from the base stance and perform the movement 2 to 4 times in a one take
-after the movements have been repeated the model should return to the base stance and not to move before camera is stopped; this will prevent the recording unuseful frames of picture
- angle of shooting should be carefully chosen, detected and supervised; ST should be always be correctly sideways, if this is not done, GF can have great difficulties doing his own job. For example in many frames back can be too visible covering the chest and frontal body area

Evaluation
-all the takes should be carefully evaluated by ST and GF
-extensive notes should be made, which are the best takes, which things should be taken account etc.

Filming diary KOR-WA 26/4/94
ST:MH & GF:MR & PM:IK
>From ...to: filming 17.50-20.35
evaluation 21.15-21.45
Total amount used
filming: 2h 45 min
evaluation: 30 min (too short, need more time)

Movement Takes
00 Stondis 001
01 Walk 002, 003 smaller stance
02 Turn 004 *5takes, 006
03 Stunned 007 (movement marked wrongly as 04)
04 Stunnedtodeath 022 roll-overs, best ones are the "sittings"
05 invitation 025 many hatversions
06 winnerpose 025 (clip doesn´t show up clearly) + additional sommersaults
07 standblock 008 last one
08 Middlepunch 009 last one (GF:chect the height)
09 highpunch 010
10 middlekick 011,012,013 2nd version
11 highkick 014 *2 versions
12 squat 015
14 squatblok (014)
15 squatpunch (015)
16 squatkick (015,15) (016,15)
17 jump 018
18 jumppunch 018, 019 2nd version
19 jumpkick 020
Extras 99 21 several invitations

Comments: The numbering of the takes did not work out as planned, that is why this information is partial and maybe not that correct. Also the claff did not show up in the beginning of every take - need more time in the front of the camera?

APPENDIX KOR-WA DIGITIZING COMMENTS
FROM:MJR

26-06-94

KOR-WA DIARY kommentit & mokat & aikaerittelyt & selvitykset
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mistakes what were done in filming and what shall be not done again

00 stondis. Digianimaatiosta ensin tehty sketsaus, joka jouduttiin

hylkäämään. Sen jälkeen tehty kaksi muuta sketsausta,

joista vasta toinen käytetty.

Idea, jossa karateka pomppii paikallaan, ei ollut mahdollinen koska se olisi
vaatinut spriten liikutusta koodissa. Ideaa toteutettaessa ei siis osattu
ottaa huomioon, onko se mahdollista.

01 walk. vanhasta ice-elfin digianimaatiosta sketsattu. jouduttiin

parantelemaan pariin kertaan fillattaessa yksityiskohtien osalta.


02 turn. Digianimaatiosta kaksi sketsausta, joista eka hylätty.

Turnin digianimaatio oli muuten hyvä, mutta jalat ovat liian leveällä, kuten
kaikissa muissakin, joten toteutus tuollaisenaan ei ole mahdollista.

03 stunned Digianim. ei toiminut, piti keksiä uusi. Muuten ei ongelmia

Ei voitu käyttää, koska kuvattaessa graafikko ei ottanut huomioon, että
stunned olisi parempi olla yhteensopiva deathin kanssa ja ehkä myöskin
käytettävissä kuvittamaan kaikista suunnista tulevia osumia.

04 turn Jouduttiin sketsaamaan kahdesti. Alkuperäinen idea, jossa pää
kääntyy ensin, piti poistaa.

Idea pään kääntymisestä olisi hidastanut koko hahmon kääntymis"fuckingprosessia"
Menikö jakeluun ?????

07 block Jalat piti muuttaa, muuten ei ongelmia


08 midpunch joutui sketsaamaan pari kertaa

Digianimaatiota ei voitu käyttää, koska stuntin selkä oli KAMERAAN PÄIN.
Aloitusasento oli myös väärä.

09 hipunch No problems

[utri007]

Nobody know who was Stavros Fasoulas. Name might be was just a alias.

https://www.pelit.fi/artikkelit/suom...vros-fasoulas/

Article in Finnish, but not a problem in these days.