Commodore Amiga Global Alliance

[TCD]

I do notice that much of the condemnation of people, ideas, and activities comes from those who prefer to hide behind pseudonyms. Perhaps this is a result of not wanting to be exposed for actually not contributing anything of any worth?

Says David Pleasance. Made my day.

[TCD]

Just found this on Mastodon:

[trixster]

Originally Posted by TCD

Says David Pleasance. Made my day.

Yup, he’s doubling down on the nonsense. There will be countless people over the years who mightn’t have produced the latest open source accelerator or created an aga A3000 or produced a diagnostics rom but have provided feedback, advice, support and advice on forums just like this, all for free.

[a_crow]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

David Pleasance on FaceBook:



Link:
https://www.facebook.com/david.j.ple...dE9wYC6GG3W1Sl

Never touch Facebook myself, but to answer the questions in my personal opinon:

1) If there are already sites in existence which offer everything AGA does - please send the link(s)for me (and everybody else) to peruse.


The absence of a similar service in a given market does not necessary mean you've found a gap that needs filling. Perhaps there isn't a site that offers everything AGA promises to because there is no need for there to be. The need is met by the existing sites and services already existing.

2) If any other site is offering to reinvest income received, back into supporting developers who want to produce new software and/or hardware - then likewise send us the link(s) so we can see for ourselves.


"Offering to invest income received" is a very vague and nebulous promise. Perhaps some concrete details about the offer would assuage some scepticism. For example, pledge to operate an open ledger showing exactly how every penny is spent and how spending decisions are made. State exactly what percentage of income received will be reinvested into what projects and why, don't just say 65% and hope that covers it. Be specific.


Otherwise it all just seems very woolly and vague.


I don't think people are neccessarily slagging off the concept, rather they are questioning whether it's an idea past it's prime. There are valid questions to be asked about whether centralisation itself is a good idea. Having a central hub for everything Amiga might sound fine on paper, but the community seems to be thriving with a variety of websites, blogs and even BBS catering to various niches.


As for hiding behind psuedonyms, it's the internet mate. It's how we always used to do it and it's now many of us will always do it. You don't need to know someone's full name and face in order to decide whether their opinions hold merit.

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by a_crow

As for hiding behind psuedonyms, it's the internet mate. It's how we always used to do it and it's now many of us will always do it. You don't need to know someone's full name and face in order to decide whether their opinions hold merit.

I attended to many events and parties, so there is my face and everybody knows me as Predseda and can recognise me I do not need to know someone's real name if I know him personally, connected with his nickname. This modern movement "unhide yourself, drop your nick" is nothing for me, I am old fashioned internet user. I do not want to be anonymous, although "real" John Smith, I want to be an original Predseda.

[DanBy]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

1) If there are already sites in existence which offer everything AGA does - please send the link(s)for me (and everybody else) to peruse.
If they are there I am very keen to discover them and compare with our objectives.

This is of course a complete disingenuous claim. If you mentioned that amibay, aminet, eab and github all already exist he'd just tell you they don't count because they don't do everything his all singing and dancing site will do. Even though people seem happy enough with the state of things today.

Personally I'm against over centralisation, specific communities with specific sites that cater for their needs are good things. The world was not made better by facebook et al destroying 99% of web forums.

[S0ulA55a551n]

Originally Posted by TCD

Says David Pleasance. Made my day.

I would be keen to know what he has contributed to the community, excluding finding a way back in the day to sell more Amigas ( which was helpful to grow the user base back then). I mean , the community as it. If he has been providing time, and expertise and money to projects that I don't know about then I apologise.

All I have seen is him trying to line his own pockets with book sales and kick-starters.

[S0ulA55a551n]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

My two pence worth.

Pointless!

I love David Pleasance, I love that he had the forethought to do the Batman Pack and others and really help get the Amiga into homes across Europe.

I was gutted back in the day when Commodore UK couldn't buy what was left, whether or not the Amiga would have lasted any significant amount of time more, I can't say, but I think there would have been more general optimism, whether that helps a company survive, I don't know.

But that was back in 1994.

In 1998, I pretty much walked away from Amiga. All the promises of stuff didn't happen nor materialise, as far as I was concerned, Amiga was dead as a platform, and there was no hope that a new machine might come out to challenge all comers as it did before.

And then 2 years later, I was back, a cursory look on the Internet, and people remembered me and the stuff i'd done.

But the Amiga "scene" as it was back in 2000, was a mess, so fragmented, little to nothing happening, hopes and dreams of doing stuff were just that, hopes and dreams.

Software wasn't really forthcoming, plenty of talented people, but not enough free time to do anything.

WHDLoad went from strength to strength, I think that was a major reason why so many people came back, got their Amigas out of cupboards, next thing they knew, they were spending money on a machine they hadn't used in a long while.

I would say that since 2010, things really started to pick up, the trickles of sofware turned into something more. Lots of people from the demo scene that had largely quit the Amiga like I had, started coming back, demo programming, dentro, intro, cracktro, music, graphics, sure it was never going to be like it was in 1991, but you could see things were picking up.

New games, unreleased games finally seeing the light of day, then there was the accelerator market that was joined by several new people, prices coming down, now it wasn't quite so expensive to upgrade an Amiga to something that wasn't horrible to use in the 2010's.

Amiga repair services sprouting up, Amiga vendors, more commercial games, more demos, more cracktros, just generally more of everything, a massive change from what was happening in 2000, which frankly, was a whole heap of not much!

And where are we today? No more the "would be great if we could collaborate to make a game", people are collaborating, and making more games than ever, the Amiga scene has NEVER been as vibrant as it is today, the market for pimping Amigas and for writing software, its building up and up.

Magazines ffs, theres at least 3 of them, some are in the shops...... And the Amiga scene returned, people getting together and making time to make stuff on Amiga again, so much talent around, and some are even getting a return on investments.

What a sea change since 2000.

We as a community saw to that.

....But apparently, what the scene really needs is something "Official" setup that we have to pay for so everything is centralised in one place.

It's like the Internet was never invented!

The community on EAB and all the other forums and sites, has managed to muddle along just fine to where we are now. We don't need and didn't ask for an "official" website which claims it will help fund projects, but somehow needs our money to make that happen?!?!??!?

Amiga is now a hobby for me, i'm almost 50 years old, I have a business to run, i'm writing a game for a publisher (for Amiga!), and I just don't see how this AGA Directory website even remotely comes into play here.

If i've got a coding problem, I'll go on EAB, because frankly, thats where all the talent is, or i'll go ask friends who have already done it for their advice.

Everything we have NOW, works. All the forums work, the communities self govern to root out morons, and spammers, we already have our "AGA Directory"....... its called the Internet!

20 years ago, when the Amiga scene was so fragmented, something like this proposal would have been welcome, but not now, not after the hard work has been done, by a community that did it for the love of wanting to do it for others.

I can't support this, its detrimental to the Amiga community, its making an "EXCLUSIVE" club, when the LAST thing the Amiga needs is EXCLUSIVITY.

I think the kids call it "gatekeeping". I call it madness. If the Amiga community isn't free and open for all, then the Amiga DIES when all of our generation that was with the Amiga when it was new, dies, and I don't want that to happen.

Its why i'm happy to share information and answer questions I can, because I want more prospective people to want reasons to join us and help carry the Amiga name on into the next generation.

I don't want to be miserable at the thought that when i'm 70, all that is left of those that give a damn about the Amiga and its memory, is an ever diminishing group of people that will vanish, taking the Amiga with it.

I give my time freely, and other than occasional donations to Scoopexs website and EAB, within reason, I want to keep it that way.

People should not be put off by the financial impact, it will simply stop people joining us.

Peace!

Hard agree. And almost felt like a rally cry or call to arms for this to continue. I , and others , appreciate all that you others have done to keep this community alive. I am not a long time user here, was always an amiga.org user from back before 2000, until amiga kit basically killed it off. But I have found a new home on this forum.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by S0ulA55a551n

If he has been providing time, and expertise and money to projects that I don't know about then I apologise.

It would be very odd if he would have been involved in any project and kept quiet about it

[7-Zark-7]

Originally Posted by BippyM

Threads merged..

Oh and this is pure bait and scam.. DJP is only about this community for himself. He does't give anything back unless there is something for him directly.. Respect == lost!

Oh my goodness, my post "beer" virus braincells are going mushy, Bippy!
Lovely to see an old face!

@TCD That "About" section...reminds me of a "Great BIG thing gonna be built here soon,promise!"

Also bravo to everything Galahad had said!
EDIT:
Forgotten to add in my earlier post,but something Galahad touched on....Apart from the wonderful work he & others have done resurrecting old unreleased stuff, the "scene" coming alive enough the last few years to follow those of the C64,& CPC 128 etc., releasing remakes & reboots of old arcade games & other ports that put some of the rush job,weren't paid extra so we'll port the ST game efforts to shame! Just a few that come to mind were Tiny Bubble, Rygar, Green Beret, Metal Gear Solid, Bomb Jack,& that Turrican AGA port....right up there with some of the C64 miracles in Ghosts'n'Goblins Arcade, Commando, Frogger DX,DK/Jr,& even Sonic!
Makes me live in hope some Amiga wizards can get one of the better Ghouls'n'Ghosts ports somehow running on an Aga type tech & maybe put the disappointing official port back to the nether realms it belongs!

[arcanist]

I do notice that much of the condemnation of people, ideas, and activities comes from those who prefer to hide behind pseudonyms. Perhaps this is a result of not wanting to be exposed for actually not contributing anything of any worth?

Community building getting off to a good start, I see.

[Dunny]

This is the same David Pleasance who has two accounts on Kickstarter so he can get around needing one project to finish before he starts another? Or having to fulfill promises to backers on his other account? That David Pleasance?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Dunny

This is the same David Pleasance who has two accounts on Kickstarter so he can get around needing one project to finish before he starts another? Or having to fulfill promises to backers on his other account? That David Pleasance?

Yep You can't make it up

[BSzili]

Originally Posted by Predseda

I attended to many events and parties, so there is my face and everybody knows me as Predseda and can recognise me I do not need to know someone's real name if I know him personally, connected with his nickname. This modern movement "unhide yourself, drop your nick" is nothing for me, I am old fashioned internet user. I do not want to be anonymous, although "real" John Smith, I want to be an original Predseda.

They always like to go for the "hiding behind anonymity" argument, as if a statement becomes less or more true depending on who said it. I guess his wish came true, because now he is getting ratioed in the Facebook comments too by people using their real names

[DDNI]

That FB comment thread is pure gold.

[crabfists]

That Facebook thread is very good and worth a read. Mostly constructive criticism.

I think the big issue here is trust (and potentially an ego issue). He probably thinks being involved in Commodore back in the day actually means people will trust him with this project. Unfortunately, that argument doesn't work. You need to prove yourself to earn the trust. I could be wrong but it doesn't feel like people in the Amiga scene feel like he is a contributing member of the scene. I've not seen him contributing on forums or giving back to the community (happy to be proved wrong though). Selling books about your time at Commodore doesn't really contribute to the scene does it? It only profits himself. Sorry if I'm repeating myself.

DP might not get the warm welcome he expects when he shows up at the Kickstart 01 show. Wonder if he'll pull out?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by crabfists

I could be wrong but it doesn't feel like people in the Amiga scene feel like he is a contributing member of the scene. I've not seen him contributing on forums or giving back to the community (happy to be proved wrong though). Selling books about your time at Commodore doesn't really contribute to the scene does it? It only profits himself. Sorry if I'm repeating myself.

I would say so too. The whole concept of an 'alliance' feels so detached from anything that might actually be useful. If the last 20 years have shown anything it is that the Amiga community is much better off without a table of old wise men telling them what to do.

[Paulee_Alex_Bow]

Originally Posted by crabfists

That Facebook thread is very good and worth a read. Mostly constructive criticism.

I think the big issue here is trust (and potentially an ego issue). He probably thinks being involved in Commodore back in the day actually means people will trust him with this project. Unfortunately, that argument doesn't work. You need to prove yourself to earn the trust. I could be wrong but it doesn't feel like people in the Amiga scene feel like he is a contributing member of the scene. I've not seen him contributing on forums or giving back to the community (happy to be proved wrong though). Selling books about your time at Commodore doesn't really contribute to the scene does it? It only profits himself. Sorry if I'm repeating myself.

DP might not get the warm welcome he expects when he shows up at the Kickstart 01 show. Wonder if he'll pull out?

I noted too that the feedback was mostly constructive.

DP has been a good friend to me in the short amount of time we have known one another. I think his books are seen as a valuable contribution by many, just as any Amiga book or publication is…it’s just that Amiga is mainly a nonprofit community these days.

Sure there are sales of hardware, software etc, but there’s a limit to what we will pay for, and that certainly does not include information and online resources. Magazines feel different, of course.

There’s something in the Amigian’s psyche about feeling abandoned by the commercial world I think, meaning that any overly commercial enterprise that doesn’t feel like a guy in his garden shed making cool things for the love of it, is not widely accepted.

[crabfists]

Originally Posted by Paulee_Alex_Bow

I think his books are seen as a valuable contribution by many, just as any Amiga book or publication is…it’s just that Amiga is mainly a nonprofit community these days.

Fair enough. Maybe I was being unfair with the point about the book then.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the anti-capitalist mindset of the Amiga scene. Perhaps it's because we saw the capitalist world of the PC come in and take over back in the day? The Amiga is a rare product because it was created as an idealistic venture by Miner's team (or so I've been told).

[TCD]

Originally Posted by crabfists

The Amiga is a rare product because it was created as an idealistic venture by Miner's team (or so I've been told).

I wouldn't go as far, but it was not just a computer to make money. Which is something that I don't think DP really understands.