12 December 2017, 08:39 | #401 |
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12 December 2017, 08:45 | #402 |
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12 December 2017, 08:50 | #403 |
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12 December 2017, 08:56 | #404 |
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12 December 2017, 09:05 | #405 |
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Well i’ll put it this way. I recall creating copper bars much easier on the amiga using the copper. I think on the st there were 4 timers in the mfp68901 ( i think that was the chip ) which you had to manipulate (timer b iirc) to get copper bars going.
Also take the video register, on the st u could only set the video registers to a 256 byte boundary and no smooth scrolling at all - different atory on the amiga. |
24 March 2018, 00:30 | #406 | |
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In many cases the game engine 68k machine code would be 100% different from the highest to the lowest level of program abstraction. THIS is why 95% of Amiga games are technically only suitable for the bin, to program an Amiga game the core routines have to be designed from the ground up to perfectly balance and synchronise the independent operations of Copper, Blitter and DACs via DMA meshed perfectly in the chipset/CPU alternating cycle and clock doubled memory bus. The scribbles on the back of a piece of paper stage of design is fundamentally different between the two, let alone the later stages. The games that do this on the Amiga have to be totally re-written from scratch on the ST. THAT is the correct way it should have been done, and the fact it wasn't done like that let alone with enough coding/video/audio talent makes it worse in many cases. Piracy on the Amiga was a major problem, a problem the software houses created by releasing insulting products AFTER the technically stunning 1986 arcade conversion of Marble Madness on the Amiga. Shadow of the beast runs just fine on a 1985 Amiga 1000 with just 512k, there was no excuses. Anyone writing arcade conversions more complex than Marble Madness in C were also not to be encouraged, the arcade machine in this case however was also coded in C and that's what they did, they rewrote the C code for the Atari custom chip libraries to work with the Amiga custom chip specific C libraries. This clearly can only work if the source machine has similar levels of a/v custom assistance and the original game engine is compiled C code. It can NEVER work with dual development between an Amiga and a glorified Amstrad CPC (which is what the ST is, a 16bit Amstrad CPC) They were also charging 25% more for the games and using incorrect aspect ratio 320x200 graphics from the ST release on a PAL Amiga screen displaying 320x200 instead of 320x256 which is like watching a 4:3 movie in forced 16:9 mode. Of course this was also done due to greed, not having to do ANY extra coding to sell their crap games to the NTSC region Amiga owners. |
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24 March 2018, 00:38 | #407 | |
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24 March 2018, 03:45 | #408 |
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Why are you quoting yourself, man?
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24 March 2018, 09:15 | #409 | |
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Last edited by mcgeezer; 24 March 2018 at 09:16. Reason: or was it byte? |
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24 March 2018, 09:30 | #410 | |
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27 March 2018, 12:30 | #411 |
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Conversions in general were an issue for the Amiga, because the hardware wasn't suited to some things but did others very well. Games designed for the Amiga took advantage of its strengths, but ports often needed stuff that the Amiga struggled with.
A great example of this is Robocop. The Amiga port is based on the Atari ST one. It makes dumb decisions like having a border around the screen, which means it can't use the Amiga's hardware scrolling support. It could easily have been so much better, but the publisher just wanted a straight ST port to cash in on the movie. |
27 March 2018, 12:38 | #412 | |
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27 March 2018, 13:10 | #413 | |
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Even if for some dumb reason programmers needed the same playfield area, they could use an edge made with sprites and use the hardware scroll.. |
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03 April 2018, 12:30 | #414 | |
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I actually really like that game for some reason, probably nostalgia. |
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03 April 2018, 13:00 | #415 |
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Lots of games look crap now but you could have some fun back then. I guess they took the spectrum level layout and added borders around on the ST. The choice of colors is too 8bit and mostly simple graphics without much detail even though the coin op existed and had a reference.
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04 April 2018, 14:56 | #416 |
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I think because it was harder to get games back then we were more willing to put effort into enjoying them. Once you can download every game ever you have little tolerance for crap and just move on, but when you had to get a cracked copy off your cousin or save up your cash and pay it was different.
Robocop has some good elements. The music, while using crappy instruments and only two channels, was kinda catchy. The speech was sorta good for the time too. The gameplay was okay, and it wasn't even too buggy. The only major one I remember is that if you punch barrels from the right they fly off in the wrong direction. The graphics were typical early 16 bit era, and in some ways charming. I love the way they drop French baguettes on you in the junkyard level. Maybe they are supposed to be girders but they look like bread. Even the performance, while not great, is at least consistent. Even when lots of sprites, or large sprites like ED-209 come on the screen it doesn't slow down. It's slow, but consistently slow. |
04 April 2018, 16:47 | #417 | |
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It has ZERO to do with the Amigas "limitations", and more to do with the ST limitations and the programmers writing for those limitations. Developers had limited time to get a conversion done and out the door, much like movie studios set in advance the release dates for sequels in established franchises, the software companies did the same. They wanted X game on X systems done by X date because all the advertising is telling everyone that X game is coming on that date. Now unless you're Thalion software (aka demo coders) who seemed to be the only guys that understand how to get the ST to perform miracles, you're just going to be churning out whatever you can that will pass muster on the ST. Scrolling window too small? Its as big as previous games. Only 16 colours? We got away with it last time. Scrolling a bit jerky? Its the ST, no-one is expecting smooth. And because of this lazy attitude to programming on the ST, developers simply don't bother to improve their craft on the ST, which also happens to invariably mean that they are the least capable programmers to be given the Amiga version to do. Scrolling window too small? Haven't got time to rehaul the entire game. Only 16 colours? Artist is busy on the next game and it would be a pain. Scrolling a bit jerky? The design around the ST limitations would mean a lot of extra work when theres a deadline. Quite clearly if David Broadhurst didn't have to consider the Atari ST in his thoughts, then it goes that his Amiga work would either of started out a whole lot better or at least would have accelerated quicker. Imagine that Ghouls n Ghosts was done with the same technical prowess as Assassin or Dojo Dan? It still wouldn't have been quite up there with the Megadrive version, but it would have been a hell of a lot closer. Its not that the Amiga couldn't do the game justice, its that the developers couldn't do it justice because of having to have development consideration for the Atari ST as well. |
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05 April 2018, 11:47 | #418 |
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Galahad is right, the gulf between games designed for the Amiga and those that are ports is huge.
Having said that, not all ports are terrible. Midnight Resistance was a pretty good arcade port. The original arcade system has a lot of slow-down anyway, and they did a good job keeping the port running at a more consistent frame rate. All the levels and enemies are there, it plays really well... The music is probably the weakest aspect. Great tunes, and the conversions aren't bad or anything, but not the best on the Amiga either. Since most of the music is in-game they were limited by the available channels and RAM though, rather than lack of skill. |
05 April 2018, 12:50 | #419 |
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Indeed, there are plenty of games from back in the 90's that show that the Amiga could do a whole lot better than the lets-not-use-the-hardware ports we almost always got. There's also a bunch of dual format games (ST/Amiga) made after developers decided to use the hardware and they usually have much better results on the Amiga.
There are some nicer ports though, I've always liked Dragon Breed, Pacmania and Rod Land for example. They run smooth, look good and play well. |
05 April 2018, 13:44 | #420 | |
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