What's the deal with broadcast monitors?

iddqd · 13 July 2017, 15:24

I know e.g. Sony broadcast monitors are popular among retro-gamers, due to "good/large scanlines", but I wonder what else they "offer". Why are they so big and heavy?

I've so far seen they support many different inputs, and have a lot of control knobs, but is that it?

Is the picture quality better?

Also, looks like they might produce a lot of heat, considering some of them look to have passive cooling?

nobody · 13 July 2017, 16:30

They have higher resolution than your normal CRT screen which is usually 300 vertical lines. These monitors have 600+ lines.

spiff · 13 July 2017, 16:44

They are possible to calibrate to a correct gamma curve, and generally have good contrast. Ie they won't blow out whites, sacrifice black levels and the R G B ratios are stable in relation to each other on different levels.

Alignment also in general is better than most arcade CRTs and edges sharper.

donnie · 13 July 2017, 17:11

If you want crt, which you would, since its how these systems where meant to be played. You need an monitor that accepts rgb.

in europe you can buy any standard 50hz crt with rgb-scart.

In america they they don't have an rgb-scart standard for their consumer crt. If you want rgb from your consoles in the us, amiga monitors and pvms are the only option.

the second best is to get some sort of component-rgb converter and hook it up to a late gen "ed"-crt. But like many late gen crt models in europe(like those crappy 100hz ones) they have digtial processing of the image and crap.

Beyond that. They are just very high quality crts, made for professionals. Without any digital after processing of the image.

idrougge · 14 July 2017, 11:59

They're usually big and heavy because they use Trinitron tubes (if it's a PVM or BVM), made to be stacked on top of each other or with other equipment on top, and made to run non-stop in broadcast studios, which puts higher demands on heat dissipation.

For better linearity, they also use deeper tubes than the shallow tubes of TVs or Amiga monitors.

iddqd · 14 July 2017, 17:21

Cool, thanks for replies. I just find they look way cooler than the plastic TVs / monitors I've seen.

Sadly, looks like one really should live in US or UK to buy one.

Lum · 15 July 2017, 12:26

Good CRTs give old games a look truly unequaled by screenshots and trailers on modern monitors.

If you haven't seen Rocket Knight Adventures, more impressive yet Xexex, or anything like that in their native RGB environment, it's impossible to describe.

idrougge · 15 July 2017, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by iddqd

Cool, thanks for replies. I just find they look way cooler than the plastic TVs / monitors I've seen.

Sadly, looks like one really should live in US or UK to buy one.

Why?

donnie · 15 July 2017, 16:39

how good is the amiga monitor compared to say an 50hz sony trinitron?

iddqd · 15 July 2017, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by idrougge

Why?

Well, never seen anyone for sale in Scandinavia, but plenty on ebay.co.uk, or ebay.com (some even for reasonable prices). Do you know of anywhere else to buy these?

kgc210 · 15 July 2017, 19:25

The beauty of broadcast monitors is the picture quality. They tend to have a lot higher dot pitch than a normal CRT TV. Some can also do over 1080P Height wise although not Width wise as the are 4:3 ratio.

Also some such as the NEC XM29 Plus (Which is what I have) is a true TriSync Monitor, so you can plug in a 15, 24 or 31khz video input and it just gets on with it. I can quite happily go from Say 15khz Amiga/MegaDrive to 24khz MAME/X68000/NeoGeo to 31khz Dreamcast/PC with out any converters.

The reason they are heavy is the fact they have a huge chunk of glass in them and wire coils for the beam and transformers. My 29" NEC is 55kg!
Regarding heat, some such as mine has twin fans in them, but most are fine passive.

They also have a nice feature for low res videos especially old DIVX / XVID's etc is that they almost remove the blockynes of the image. Hard to describe without you seeing it.

rare_j · 16 July 2017, 00:25

Never heard of that nec monitor before, but it looks nice. 29 is an excellent size.
I had a normal 21 trinitron tv for many years, eventually it went very soft for a while, then broke down altogether.
People go nuts over bvm's and pvm's, tiny 14 inch ones even. I'm sure the picture quality is a bit better than a normal rgb tv, if you were to examine it, but when you're actually really enjoying playing a game, does a bit better pq really matter that much?

lantus360 · 16 July 2017, 01:52

they offer : amazing quality image. some of the best you will ever see. many different input formats , rgb, svideo, composite, the ability to output to those video formats as well

iddqd · 16 July 2017, 14:35

Quote:

Never heard of that nec monitor before, but it looks nice. 29 is an excellent size.

http://www.bluegamer.net/nec-xm29-pl...l-of-monitors/

...although I don't see the NEC XM29 in this list of commodore/retrogame monitors:
Appiah's comprehensive 15KHz monitors list of caveat emptor

idrougge · 16 July 2017, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by iddqd

Well, never seen anyone for sale in Scandinavia, but plenty on ebay.co.uk, or ebay.com (some even for reasonable prices). Do you know of anywhere else to buy these?

They're usually sold on Tradera, Blocket or forums for video production.

iddqd · 17 July 2017, 19:58

Also, some seem to have a parallel port connection, or similar, for computer. I wonder what that might be for. Auto-calibration?

Amiga1992 · 17 July 2017, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by iddqd

Also, some seem to have a parallel port connection, or similar, for computer. I wonder what that might be for. Auto-calibration?

I thought that was for control of some kind of external devices. But not sure.
This photo clearly shows a serial port with "remote" written as description:

iddqd · 17 July 2017, 20:20

Also, how popular are these among Amiga / C64 people? Or do most people prefer the trusty 1084S?

I'll attach an image of the connector I had in mind, from a Sony monitor apparently from 1985.

idrougge · 17 July 2017, 20:29

Many or most controllers have remote control plugs of some kind. In some cases, they're parallel ports (not the same as on your Amiga or PC, but simply a port with one pin per function), sometimes serial ports and sometimes custom ports that may be cascaded from one monitor to the next. Often, you connected a wired remote to that plug and placed that remote on a desk or mounted it to your rack.

Most Amiga users use 1084s since there are a hundred 1084s made for each PVM.

donnie · 17 July 2017, 20:32

but how is the quality of the 1084s vs pvm?

13 July 2017, 15:24	#1
iddqd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 90	What's the deal with broadcast monitors? I know e.g. Sony broadcast monitors are popular among retro-gamers, due to "good/large scanlines", but I wonder what else they "offer". Why are they so big and heavy? I've so far seen they support many different inputs, and have a lot of control knobs, but is that it? Is the picture quality better? Also, looks like they might produce a lot of heat, considering some of them look to have passive cooling?

13 July 2017, 17:11	#4
donnie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: sthlm Posts: 226	If you want crt, which you would, since its how these systems where meant to be played. You need an monitor that accepts rgb. in europe you can buy any standard 50hz crt with rgb-scart. In america they they don't have an rgb-scart standard for their consumer crt. If you want rgb from your consoles in the us, amiga monitors and pvms are the only option. the second best is to get some sort of component-rgb converter and hook it up to a late gen "ed"-crt. But like many late gen crt models in europe(like those crappy 100hz ones) they have digtial processing of the image and crap. Beyond that. They are just very high quality crts, made for professionals. Without any digital after processing of the image. Last edited by donnie; 13 July 2017 at 17:24.

17 July 2017, 20:20	#18
iddqd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 90	Also, how popular are these among Amiga / C64 people? Or do most people prefer the trusty 1084S? I'll attach an image of the connector I had in mind, from a Sony monitor apparently from 1985. Attached Thumbnails

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13 July 2017, 16:30	#2
nobody Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: GR Age: 46 Posts: 1,416	They have higher resolution than your normal CRT screen which is usually 300 vertical lines. These monitors have 600+ lines.

13 July 2017, 16:44	#3
spiff Oh noes! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Neverland Posts: 766	They are possible to calibrate to a correct gamma curve, and generally have good contrast. Ie they won't blow out whites, sacrifice black levels and the R G B ratios are stable in relation to each other on different levels. Alignment also in general is better than most arcade CRTs and edges sharper.

14 July 2017, 11:59	#5
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	They're usually big and heavy because they use Trinitron tubes (if it's a PVM or BVM), made to be stacked on top of each other or with other equipment on top, and made to run non-stop in broadcast studios, which puts higher demands on heat dissipation. For better linearity, they also use deeper tubes than the shallow tubes of TVs or Amiga monitors.

14 July 2017, 17:21	#6
iddqd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 90	Cool, thanks for replies. I just find they look way cooler than the plastic TVs / monitors I've seen. Sadly, looks like one really should live in US or UK to buy one.

15 July 2017, 12:26	#7
Lum Registered User Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: USA Posts: 13	Good CRTs give old games a look truly unequaled by screenshots and trailers on modern monitors. If you haven't seen Rocket Knight Adventures, more impressive yet Xexex, or anything like that in their native RGB environment, it's impossible to describe.

15 July 2017, 16:39	#9
donnie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: sthlm Posts: 226	how good is the amiga monitor compared to say an 50hz sony trinitron?

15 July 2017, 19:25	#11
kgc210 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England Posts: 450	The beauty of broadcast monitors is the picture quality. They tend to have a lot higher dot pitch than a normal CRT TV. Some can also do over 1080P Height wise although not Width wise as the are 4:3 ratio. Also some such as the NEC XM29 Plus (Which is what I have) is a true TriSync Monitor, so you can plug in a 15, 24 or 31khz video input and it just gets on with it. I can quite happily go from Say 15khz Amiga/MegaDrive to 24khz MAME/X68000/NeoGeo to 31khz Dreamcast/PC with out any converters. The reason they are heavy is the fact they have a huge chunk of glass in them and wire coils for the beam and transformers. My 29" NEC is 55kg! Regarding heat, some such as mine has twin fans in them, but most are fine passive. They also have a nice feature for low res videos especially old DIVX / XVID's etc is that they almost remove the blockynes of the image. Hard to describe without you seeing it.

16 July 2017, 00:25	#12
rare_j Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,176	Never heard of that nec monitor before, but it looks nice. 29 is an excellent size. I had a normal 21 trinitron tv for many years, eventually it went very soft for a while, then broke down altogether. People go nuts over bvm's and pvm's, tiny 14 inch ones even. I'm sure the picture quality is a bit better than a normal rgb tv, if you were to examine it, but when you're actually really enjoying playing a game, does a bit better pq really matter that much?

16 July 2017, 01:52	#13
lantus360 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Olathe, Kansas Posts: 214	they offer : amazing quality image. some of the best you will ever see. many different input formats , rgb, svideo, composite, the ability to output to those video formats as well

17 July 2017, 19:58	#16
iddqd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 90	Also, some seem to have a parallel port connection, or similar, for computer. I wonder what that might be for. Auto-calibration?

17 July 2017, 20:29	#19
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	Many or most controllers have remote control plugs of some kind. In some cases, they're parallel ports (not the same as on your Amiga or PC, but simply a port with one pin per function), sometimes serial ports and sometimes custom ports that may be cascaded from one monitor to the next. Often, you connected a wired remote to that plug and placed that remote on a desk or mounted it to your rack. Most Amiga users use 1084s since there are a hundred 1084s made for each PVM.

17 July 2017, 20:32	#20
donnie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: sthlm Posts: 226	but how is the quality of the 1084s vs pvm?

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