English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Requests > request.UAE Wishlist

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 23 March 2016, 19:23   #1
Aegis
Gentleman

Aegis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: The Fortesque Mansion
Posts: 235
Direct USB support in WinUAE?

Been meaning to post this for ages

Toni - how feasible/interesting do you think it would be for direct USB support via an emulated Deneb (or similar)?

I'm thinking the way something like VMWare works where it disconnects the device from the host OS and passes it on to the client?

Deneb support would in theory work for both 3.x and 4.x no? Then we could potentially use usb gamepads, tablets, MIDI devices, flash drives etc. (assuming the drivers are available).

I've got no shortage of things to test
Aegis is offline  
Old 23 March 2016, 19:50   #2
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
Same problem as with virtual host network card. Find working, stable, license compatible, signed Windows driver that does it and has good enough documentation.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 23 March 2016, 20:06   #3
Aegis
Gentleman

Aegis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: The Fortesque Mansion
Posts: 235
First thing I found that looks viable: http://libusb.info/ LGPL? (Sorry, not open-source license savvy).
Aegis is offline  
Old 23 March 2016, 21:04   #4
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
Ok, so that is already solved problem. Maybe. Next bigger problem: USB is extremely uninteresting for me.

-> Not going to happen for free and without full specs of Amiga USB hardware.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 23 March 2016, 21:25   #5
Aegis
Gentleman

Aegis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: The Fortesque Mansion
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Ok, so that is already solved problem. Maybe. Next bigger problem: USB is extremely uninteresting for me.

-> Not going to happen for free and without full specs of Amiga USB hardware.
Ahaha! Ok - those next two may take a little longer - let me get back to you

*Edit* here's some basic info: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/deneb (Zorro III)

There's also the Highway: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/highway (Zorro II, non-FPGA)

Last edited by Aegis; 23 March 2016 at 21:38.
Aegis is offline  
Old 24 March 2016, 09:30   #6
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
I am not going to do any reverse-engineering whatsoever for as boring (and totally useless for me) thing as USB.

I require FULL specs and support from manufacturer. Or someone else need to volunteer to do the reversing stuff.

As usual it also needs to be "all OS" supported.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 24 March 2016, 12:07   #7
Aegis
Gentleman

Aegis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: The Fortesque Mansion
Posts: 235
I'm speaking to the hardware developer at the moment - he's happy to help and has the full specs available for you but it depends on getting the permission of the Poseidon software developer - more news if/when I have it

Deneb is Zorro II/III with 3.x/4.x support and would also work with AROS 68k if they recompile the AROS Poseidon port for 68k (Olaf is looking into it).
Aegis is offline  
Old 24 March 2016, 16:08   #8
Gilloo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Grenoble, Isère, Rhône-Alpes, France, Europe, Earth
Posts: 175
Don't bother Toni with usb on Windows
The better thing to do is to use a pass thru via an external dll and libusb (or libusbX) directly.
Like that:

http://aminet.net/package/driver/other/anaiis_hostusb

of course it *works* (with a lot of limitations) with ANAIIS, not Poseidon.

The only use is gamepad with return force in amiga games.
SJA_RumbleSetSlowMotor, SJA_RumbleSetFastMotor and SJA_RumbleOff tags of lowlevel.library extensions.
Gilloo is offline  
Old 24 March 2016, 16:19   #9
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
I never said USB hardware emulation won't happen. I only said it is extremely boring and useless for me but it most likely WILL happen someday. (Just like PPC happened many, many years after I said something else..)

It is the only way to be "all OS" compatible, including NetBSD, Linux etc.. It is the correct way from emulation point of view, not necessarily the most optimal way
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 24 March 2016, 16:56   #10
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
I'm speaking to the hardware developer at the moment - he's happy to help and has the full specs available for you but it depends on getting the permission of the Poseidon software developer - more news if/when I have it
I don't think I want to touch any USB stacks (too big black box, even with a source..) but some debugging/testing program that directly accesses the USB card and returns some diagnostics information (connected USB device type and other information) is also required.

btw, you (I don't mean OP only) should have already learned that NO answer from me only means "NO! at this moment, it is not necessarily 'NO!' many months or year(s) later.." or something like that...
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 25 March 2016, 03:18   #11
wawa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: berlin/germany
Posts: 1,006
well, poseidon actually logs the usb devices and information about them (i dont remember to what extent), as far as they become viisible on usb port. poseidon is included in aros rom/usb and builds for 68k afair. i have a deneb laying around i have not used for some time, busy with other stuff, but i could put it back in the machine to test, whether with aros or aos, as soon as i get back to berlin.
wawa is offline  
Old 26 March 2016, 17:21   #12
Aegis
Gentleman

Aegis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: The Fortesque Mansion
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I don't think I want to touch any USB stacks (too big black box, even with a source..) but some debugging/testing program that directly accesses the USB card and returns some diagnostics information (connected USB device type and other information) is also required.
I'm pretty sure the devs can help you with that. I know you're busy with 3.3.0 at the moment but I've sent you an email with the (positive) responses I've had from the hardware and software developers - hopefully my investigations will be of some use if/when you decide to take a look at USB emulation
Aegis is offline  
Old 13 June 2016, 01:40   #13
kolla
Registered User
kolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,521
Why not just ... http://usbip.sourceforge.net - use for example a raspberry pi as USB host controller from any networked Amiga.
kolla is offline  
Old 29 December 2016, 17:33   #14
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
3.4 is out, now is the best time to find Amiga USB hardware specs before I lose too much interest

There was some talk about Deneb specs in early 2016 but not much happened. (DMA capability makes this optimal choice for emulation)
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 29 December 2016, 19:14   #15
Locutus
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 867
I just took a quick look in the AROS tree for what all is included from Poseidon and its a bit of a downer.

The only host drivers included are for PCI attached *HCI controllers. Not terribly interesting. (I assume that all real Amiga hardware host drivers were contributed and thus didn't fall under Chris Hodges' ownership)

There is a virtual usb driver (didn't read through it, my coffee break is only that long) which might make a interesting starting point but that would also require writing a new Poseidon host class 'fun'.

So someone will have to write the owner of a USB Poseidon host class and ask for GPL'd code, good luck :-)
Locutus is offline  
Old 29 December 2016, 20:13   #16
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
This has "nothing" to do with drivers or Poseidon. Hardware emulation = existing drivers work.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 29 December 2016, 20:51   #17
Locutus
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 867
Well yes/no....... if there were a host driver (for say, the algor) with some readable code and heavens forbid some hardware documentation in the tree it would definitely make life easier then not having any hardware docs.

Edit: i assume your idea is to write a good-enough emulation of a preexisting real-Amiga USB controller.
Edit2: People keep yelling 'but there is AROS code!' so i wanted to know what all was actually included.
Locutus is offline  
Old 30 December 2016, 10:30   #18
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
Edit: i assume your idea is to write a good-enough emulation of a preexisting real-Amiga USB controller.
Exactly. It must be existing very well supported USB controller = controller must have drivers for all Amiga compatible operating systems. No one writes multiple drivers for "new" devices.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 30 December 2016, 11:00   #19
Locutus
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 867
That essentially only leaves the E3B Highway and Subway which are supported by Poseidon and ANAIIS, NetBSD/Linux don't support native USB hardware anyway.

Of those the Highway would be preferable as Subway isn't autoconfig hardware.
Locutus is offline  
Old 30 December 2016, 11:57   #20
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 22,010
What exactly does different controllers support? Information availability seems to be not that good..

I'd still prefer DMA capability because it will make data transfers "instant" in emulation, PIO only wastes CPU time, both emulated and emulator's CPU time. (USB hardware level speed capability is mostly irrelevant)
Toni Wilen is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Direct kyroflux usage from WinUAE? Chipmunk_UK_1 request.UAE Wishlist 12 04 July 2011 17:59
crappy direct X in winuae 2.30? trydowave support.WinUAE 1 06 January 2011 19:30
Direct ISO support TEOL support.WinUAE 3 11 February 2007 12:27
Winuae 1.3 direct 3d filter problem PiCiJi support.WinUAE 3 18 July 2006 21:11
WinUAE and USB support??? nothingman New to Emulation or Amiga scene 3 10 April 2003 16:24

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.08935 seconds with 13 queries