WAV-16-bit-files converted to RAW-8-bit-files

[dissident]

I'm planning to compose some protracker-MODs with the Roland TR808 samples.

I have found the right WAV-samples in 16 bit format and converted them with wav2ami into RAW-8-Bit files to use them with the protracker. I know that the quality decreases converting 16 bit to 8 bit.

But the result in most cases is horrible. Much noise superimpose the samples data and the amplitude is very low so the samples are not very loud. The highhat/handclap/ claves samples on the ST-01: are much better than the converted ones from the WAV-files.

Reworking the samples (cutting the length etc.) with the protracker didn't help very much.

Does anyone know a better way or a tool for converting without decreasing the quality so much?

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by dissident

the amplitude is very low so the samples are not very loud.

That's part of the problem. The 16 bit samples have to be as loud as possible without clipping before you convert them to 8 bit. For use in Protracker they also have to be down sampled using a good down sampling algorithm. Also, DO NOT USE DITHERING! The sample rates will be way to low for dithering to be useful.

There may be a bit more to it than that. Some of our local audio experts will probably explain this better than I can

[dissident]

Originally Posted by Thorham

That's part of the problem. The 16 bit samples have to be as loud as possible without clipping before you convert them to 8 bit.

Thanks for the hints. Working with Audacity I changed the volume to the maximum before the converting.

For use in Protracker they also have to be down sampled using a good down sampling algorithm.

It seems that wav2ami already samples down and only works with 16 bit. Reducing the sample rate to 8 kHz and the depth to 8 bit in Audacity before saving didn't work. Strange effects with messed up data were the result of the wav2ami converting.

[adrdesign]

You can use the script in there (check the entire post)
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=940131&postcount=3

it will apply some compression to enhance the lost of resolution. You can modify the script to match your requirements

[dissident]

Originally Posted by adrdesign

You can use the script in there (check the entire post)
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=940131&postcount=3

it will apply some compression to enhance the lost of resolution. You can modify the script to match your requirements

Great, that helped me a lot. Now the converting of the 16-bit samples has a much better result of 8-bit samples. Many thanks adrdeign

[Knocker]

I came across this thread, and also noticed that wav2ami automatically down samples, as opposed to e.g. sox. I need to down sample, otherwise the pitch is too low for use in Protracker. Can someone explain why that is, why I need to down sample?

[DanScott]

because original samples are probably at 44.1khz... and Amiga will play at some much lower rate

[pandy71]

Side to this adrdesign script is incorrect as Amiga (Paula) have no 22050Hz sample rate.
Closest to 22050Hz is AUDxPER=161 and frequency 22030Hz (real 22030.4Hz).

It is easier to perform conversion on PC, bellow verified sox syntax:

(stereo is converted to mono, sample rate conversion to 22030Hz, automatic gain to maximize level without clipping)

@sox --multi-threaded --buffer 65536 -S -V -D %1 -e signed-integer -b 8 -c 1 %~n1.s8 remix - rate -v -s -L 22030 gain -n -0.07 stats -b 8 stat

[daxb]

If you play a 22050Hz sample in protracker 22168Hz or 22030Hz I don`t see/hear any problem. You get problems when your sample is a drumloop (at least 4 beats). Then it can go out of sync. I also noticed that BPM might be different from device to device. For example when I record a drumloop at 125 BPM from MC-303 and play it in Protracker at 125 BPM it needs finetuning to fit the sync.

However, for single instruments and most non drumloop samples a simple 44,1kHz to 22050Hz conversion is good enough IMO. Drift errors can be fixed by finetuning.

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by daxb

If you play a 22050Hz sample in protracker 22168Hz or 22030Hz I don`t see/hear any problem. You get problems when your sample is a drumloop (at least 4 beats). Then it can go out of sync. I also noticed that BPM might be different from device to device. For example when I record a drumloop at 125 BPM from MC-303 and play it in Protracker at 125 BPM it needs finetuning to fit the sync.

However, for single instruments and most non drumloop samples a simple 44,1kHz to 22050Hz conversion is good enough IMO. Drift errors can be fixed by finetuning.

I'm not a musician but even at this forum there are discussions about musical notation, frequencies etc where 20Hz detune seem to be big issue.
Playing 22050Hz transposed down by almost 20Hz seem to me like not the best idea especially in case where people complain that Amiga sample rate are not in line with common musical notation, and yes - i agree probably 20Hz detune will be not particularly noticeable by most of people but if things can be done correctly then why bother especially that proper sample rate conversion take on PC anyway less time than on Amiga (from my perspective modern PC with lot of RAM, CPU power, and storage space is better tool to convert from 16 bit to 8 bit than Amiga - also amount of data required to transfer is lower).

[Amiga1992]

If 22050 isn't correct, let's not use it! 20Hz could be a problem and finetuning within Protracker isn't the best option.

Then again it isn't all that simple. Supposedly, if you are converting samples in different keys, you need to use different sample rates.

The "one for all" method only works if you are going to use Protracker just for sample sequencing, meaning you aren't going to "compose" there or you convert every asset on the same key to the same sample rate. The moment you introduce a sample from another source, you're gonna hear the problems.

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Akira

If 22050 isn't correct, let's not use it! 20Hz could be a problem and finetuning within Protracker isn't the best option.

Then again it isn't all that simple. Supposedly, if you are converting samples in different keys, you need to use different sample rates.

The "one for all" method only works if you are going to use Protracker just for sample sequencing, meaning you aren't going to "compose" there or you convert every asset on the same key to the same sample rate. The moment you introduce a sample from another source, you're gonna hear the problems.

Well, my point was only related to 22050Hz vs 22030.4Hz on Amiga.
All above are valid and i believe this is well known limitation for wavetable samplers.

[dissident]

Like I did for the Roland TR-808, I want to convert 16 bit/WAV samples of these Roland Juno 60 presets:

11 Strings 1
12 Strings 2
13 Strings 3
14 Organ 1
15 Organ 2
16 Organ 3
17 Brass
18 Phase Brass
21 Piano 1
22 Piano 2
23 Celesta
24 Mellow Piano
25 Harpsichord 1
26 Harpsichord 2
27 Guitar
28 Synthesizer
31 Bass 1
32 Bass 2 !
33 Clavichord 1
34 Clavichord 2
35 Pizzicato Sound 1
36 Pizzicato Sound 2
37 Xylophone
38 Glockenspiel
41 Violine
42 Trumpet
43 Horn
44 Tuba
45 Flute
46 Clarinet
47 Oboe
48 English Horn
51 Funny Cat
52 Wah Brass
53 Phase Combination
54 Reed 1
55 Popcorn
56 Reed 2
57 Reed 3
58 PMW Chorus
61 Synthesizer Organ
62 Effect Sound 1
63 Effect Sound 2
64 Space Harp
65 Funk
66 Space Sound 1
67 Mysterious Invention
68 Space Sound 2
71 Percussive Sound 1
72 Percussive Sound 2
73 Whistle
74 Effect Sound 3
75 UFO
76 Space Sound 2
77 Surf
78 Synthesizer Drum

which I want to use in the Protracker and not in a VST/Plugin.

The problem is, that it was impossible for me to find all Juno 60 presets as samples, only a few of them. Does anyone know where to find the complete presets samples?

[savior]

hi

samplemanager convert maybe well, try it on aminet need guigfx and render library

[dissident]

Originally Posted by savior

hi

samplemanager convert maybe well, try it on aminet need guigfx and render library

Hi savior, thanks for the hint, but that's not the point. A have already the right software to convert WAV-samples on the amiga.

What I need are the sample-files recorded from the Roland Juno 60 presets, mentioned in my last post, played once with a certain note like C-3 !

Again, does anyone of you know where to get the recorded WAV-samples of the Juno 60 presets for a special note? They don't have to be for free, I would also pay for it.

[ElectroBlaster]

I found a way but it depends if you would like it!

I discovered Protracker for the PC. found it actually works quite well and allows protracker modules to load, play and edit. It not brilliant but its a pretty dam good stab at it.

The point here is, it can load 16bit wavs in, they work. But more importantly! you can save the sample back out as 8bit mono 22khz that is 100% what the Amiga wants

The quality is very good as well.