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Old 08 November 2019, 01:02   #1
malko
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KS 3.1.4 missing in the drop-down list

Hi Toni,

In WinUAE 4.0.1, I have added KS 3.1.4 in the appropriate folder and re-scanned but is doesn't appear in the Main ROM drop-down list

I have then added it manually in the WinUAE.ini under the section [DetectedROMs] as :
Code:
ROM_117=KS ROM v3.1.4 (A500,A600,A2000) rev 46.143 (512k) / "Roms\KS ROM v3.1.4 (A500,A600,A2000) rev 46.143 (512k).rom"
ROM_119=KS ROM v3.1.4 (A1200) rev 46.143 (512k) / "Roms\KS ROM v3.1.4 (A1200) rev 46.143 (512k).rom"
but still not displayed in the list (have used 177 & 119 like this, no particular reason except that these numbers were unused in this section)

The addition in the Registry didn't change the result as well.

Except upgrading WinUAE , what should be done to make it appears in this drop-down list ?
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Old 08 November 2019, 01:57   #2
DamienD
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Toni has mentioned this before in some thread malko; too lazy to search ATM.

Unless someone purchases all version of 3.1.4 (KS ROMs for various models and Workbench disks) for him, he won't be adding into WinUAE.
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Old 08 November 2019, 10:43   #3
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Thanks Damien. Didn't see Toni's answers regarding this topic and when I searched for "3.1.4" I got no result ... and Rom or Kickstart word return too much results to check them all

Maybe Hyperion can consider the "donation" or a "time limited loan" of the 3.1.4 ROMs to Toni for them to be recognized by WinUAE. Isn't emulation a big enough part of today Amiga market?
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Old 08 November 2019, 12:36   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
Thanks Damien. Didn't see Toni's answers regarding this topic and when I searched for "3.1.4" I got no result ... and Rom or Kickstart word return too much results to check them all
I can't find Toni's exact post, but this thread also mentions this: AmigaOS 3.1.4 A1200 ROM not detected in WinUAE 4.1.0

I guess people don't won't these ROMs added into WinUAE that badly to warrant a purchase / donation to Toni.
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Old 08 November 2019, 13:14   #5
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Thanks again Damien
Missed this linked thread for sure.

Regarding this topic, Toni's position seems a bit strange to me, but he is the boss behind WinUAE, so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I am not going to add it for long time because it only makes it more "collectable" just because it is missing from the list..

EDIT: and above reply too. and it has already been changed at least once, it probably won't be the last time..
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Old 08 November 2019, 13:36   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
Regarding this topic, Toni's position seems a bit strange to me, but he is the boss behind WinUAE, so...
Why?

3.1.4 is a little pointless in emulation so Toni's in no rush to add...

Plus, as mentioned, why should he have to purchase all versions of 3.1.4 (KS ROMs for various models and Workbench disks) in order to make this happen?

If someone really wants this added into WinUAE then purchase / donate the above to Toni; it's that simple.

I find absolutely nothing wrong with this stance
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Old 08 November 2019, 13:59   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
[...] why should he have to purchase all versions of 3.1.4 (KS ROMs for various models and Workbench disks) in order to make this happen?
No one requested such things in the posts I have read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
[...] If someone really wants this added into WinUAE then purchase / donate the above to Toni.

I find nothing wrong with this stance
Neither do I.
But it's not the reason I understand from the reply he made and I have quoted.

Having it in the drop-down list is a "nice have". Because it's not there, it will not prevent me from sleeping .

So my initial question still apply. Hope Toni, or somebody else, may answer it ? These WinUAE.ini and regedit entries should be of any use for the application, thus, if something can be done on my side :
Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
[...] what should be done to make it appears in this drop-down list ?
Maybe a specific number must be used ? And not 117 as arbitrarily chosen ? (Saying also that I would like to keep the others entries that are present as well)
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Old 08 November 2019, 15:12   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
No one requested such things in the posts I have read.
Toni specifically said that he will accept the whole rom set (not only one or two) payed by someone as a gift in the thread below. He will not accept money.

Small donations would do it in minutes, but it's a bit difficult to do it in the forum because it's about trusting someone that will collect money and purchase them.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=94572
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Old 08 November 2019, 15:21   #9
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Thank you for the link ceztko
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Old 08 November 2019, 17:17   #10
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Having ROMs and having checksums added to WinUAE are two different things.

I am still not going to add any checksums for reasons I already said in other thread and because I want to stay as far away as possible from <x>. Current climate is too polluted..
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Old 08 November 2019, 20:57   #11
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OK. No problem.
We all have our opinion about company "x" or "y"
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Old 11 November 2019, 17:37   #12
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@ceztko - I'm afraid it's not possible. There are at least two different 3.1.4 ROMs for a given model, and multiple (probably at least 3 or 4) sets of floppy disks. All have just one version number 3.1.4, and when purchasing you don't actually know what you'll get.

Hyperion did a complete mess with 3.1.4.
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Old 13 November 2019, 18:06   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
@ceztko - I'm afraid it's not possible. There are at least two different 3.1.4 ROMs for a given model, and multiple (probably at least 3 or 4) sets of floppy disks. All have just one version number 3.1.4, and when purchasing you don't actually know what you'll get.

Hyperion did a complete mess with 3.1.4.
Do you mean there's already different minor versions for a given model? Well, if I understood correctly Toni is saying he won't add checksums for automatic rom detection. If he receives the roms/floppy images maybe he can still support them as he's supporting emulation of many hardware devices that more or less officially were released for Amiga computers, which I think it's the case for these Kickstarts. This would explain his initial availability to receive the whole rom set as donation. @Toni: please clarify if this is not correct or you changed your mind about supporting KS 3.1.4 at all.
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Old 13 November 2019, 18:45   #14
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There are no different versions. But there are two kinds of ROMs you get, one for burning to an eeprom and one for use with a romtool (or emulator). You will get both when you download it from the hyperion website.
Also there are different sets of disks you get, depending on the Amiga model you choose when buying. But as far as i know only the Modules disk is different.
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Old 13 November 2019, 19:10   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
@ceztko - I'm afraid it's not possible. There are at least two different 3.1.4 ROMs for a given model, and multiple (probably at least 3 or 4) sets of floppy disks. All have just one version number 3.1.4, and when purchasing you don't actually know what you'll get.
You know exactly what you get. The ROM(s) for the system you ordered and the disk set, or the Modules disk for the system you ordered, plus the disk set. There is one (common) ROM for A500,A2000 and A600, one for the A3000, one for the A4000 and one for the A4000T. Was never any different. CBM had different ROMs for all their machines, exactly in the outline above. An A4000 Rom in a A2000 machine - well, despite that it would not even fit physically - would not work even work as far as the software is concerned either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
Hyperion did a complete mess with 3.1.4.
Nope. CBM did by not supplying a unified architecture, and failed to provide autoconf for their components (a problem reproduced by another more recent hardware - thanks guys). The 3.1.4 developers just had to follow what CBM did. There is, actually, not even possibility to even create a unified ROM, though 3.1.4 certainly cleaned up a couple of strange concepts. All kickstarts before had different versions of graphics (AGA, non-AGA) or utility (68020 or not) or mathieeesingbas (again, 68020 or not). All of that went away, with only one version for all. What is different is exec, expansion, and the scsi.device, plus the corresponding bonus code (i.e. A3000.bonus, A4000.bonus etc). That is, unfortunately, very hard to fix. Thus, please think twice before you make such pointless complaints.
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Old 14 November 2019, 01:21   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
There is one (common) ROM for A500,A2000
This is simply NOT TRUE. For example, I've got two A500/A1200 ROMs:

- file dated 27th Sept 2018, MD5 sum 7fe1eb0ba2b767659bf547bfb40d67c4
- file dated 19th Oct 2018, MD5 sum 61c5b9931555b8937803505db868d5a8

Both were downloaded by me from my Hyperion account. Similarly with A1200 ROMs (and, AFAIK, all the other ROMs), there are some differences between floppy images too. How many versions were actually released (and how many more will be released in the future under the same version number) - I don't have any idea, probably pirate sites are the only reliable source of information.

I'm getting too old for this and I'm really happy my half-baked plug&play script system is only my unreleased private script system (dealing only with software/hardware I personally own or emulate) and I don't have to deal with users running into problems due to this mess (and this is a mess the Hyperion itself created - not the CBM!).

<offtopic>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
CBM did by not supplying a unified architecture, and failed to provide autoconf for their components (a problem reproduced by another more recent hardware - thanks guys)
I think I know which hardware you are talking about, that's the other reason I'll probably never be able to do my p&p right. I can forgive the PlipBox team (it's a hack straight from the beginning and it's amazing that they made such product at all), but full-fledged FPGA boards with several variants and different cores with different functionalities... no, I just don't want to deal with anything like this.

</offtopic>
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Old 14 November 2019, 03:18   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
This is simply NOT TRUE. For example, I've got two A500/A1200 ROMs:

- file dated 27th Sept 2018, MD5 sum 7fe1eb0ba2b767659bf547bfb40d67c4
- file dated 19th Oct 2018, MD5 sum 61c5b9931555b8937803505db868d5a8


Both were downloaded by me from my Hyperion account.
Obviously, as the A1200 ROM is different from the A500/A600/A2000 ROM, and has been different ever since. Forgot this model in my list, sorry. The regular disk sets are identical, though there is a A1200 modules disk, and a A500 modules disk, the latter being identical to the A600 modules and the A2000 modules disk.



This is really not hard to understand: "A modules disk replacing a machine dependent ROM".



Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
there are some differences between floppy images too.
On the modules disks, yes, and those are the only differences. Excuse me, I'm building these disks, and I know the build procedure. All disks *but* the modules disks are identical for all machines, and have not changed ever since. There is not even a "per model" build file for the disk set.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post

How many versions were actually released (and how many more will be released in the future under the same version number) - I don't have any idea, probably pirate sites are the only reliable source of information.
There was one (initial) ROM image version with the wrong copyright statement which was fixed slightly after. Nothing changed but the copyright text (instead of "copyright hyperion" it says "developed under license"). Hence, the answer is "two per machine type", and it remains as such. There are no new 3.1.4 ROMs going to appear. There are new 3.2 ROMs going to appear, one per machine type, same logic CBM used.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post


I'm getting too old for this and I'm really happy my half-baked plug&play script system is only my unreleased private script system (dealing only with software/hardware I personally own or emulate) and I don't have to deal with users running into problems due to this mess (and this is a mess the Hyperion itself created - not the CBM!).
Which mess? There is no difference - there is a per-model difference in the ROMs/modules as it has always been. If you complain about that, complain at bad development practise of CBM. Nobody can fix that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post



I think I know which hardware you are talking about.
I talk about the vampires.
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Old 14 November 2019, 10:38   #18
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I don't understand the problem with the 3.1.4.-Kickrom not appearing in the list. You can choose it manually and it works without a problem. Choosing it with the file-requester is only a matter of seconds. As *I* don't add WinUAE-configurations on a daily-basis, this solution is good enough *for me*.
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Old 14 November 2019, 20:01   #19
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Separate version for a group of machines was never a big problem - this was clearly communicated. The necessity to change the ROMs... well, sh*t happens.


But silent changes of the ROM images, without ANY notice to customers should never happen in XXI century. The checksum does not care how small the change was (and, AFAIK, it was a little bit more than just a single string modification) - even if just one bit of the unused ROM area gets flipped, for the purpose of ROM management it is not the same version anymore. Now, imagine someone decides to buy all the versions for Toni... unpleasant surprise, I would say.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the way OS 3 gets developed. But I hate the way Hyperion treats the customers - creating such a mess.
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Old 14 November 2019, 20:28   #20
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@Romanjuan

You are really blowing things out of proportion on this one.
It is a small string change regarding copyright. Nothing else.
The product functionality remained untouched.

If you really dig deep enough then you would probably understand why the EULA is so strange and why did the string change happen. It is really hard to blame Hyperion on this one if you use your intelligence.

But of course, you are free to choose your path.
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