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Old 04 November 2019, 13:13   #21
Jack Burton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
This so much...
I was thinking lately about how to create a proper Amiga painting program that incorporates Copper color switches.

Not an easy task, though..

Wow, the day you create such a painting program I'll apply to be the first Beta tester ! Can be a simple program with minimal painting tools, not necessarily have the complexity of a program like DPaint or Brilliance for example.
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Old 04 November 2019, 13:15   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
Gameplay can be brilliant even for 160x100 monochrome graphics

It's exactly what I think.
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Old 04 November 2019, 14:03   #23
Shatterhand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
...
(I wish I could play Amiga versions of games like Penguin Adventure, Maze of Galious, F1 Spirit, Aleste 2, Vampire Killer, (SD) Snatcher, Undead Line, Ys 1/2/3, etc. which should be technically doable on an OCS Amiga.)

So a good use of hardware sprites on the Amiga, although being rather limited, can add a lot if used properly, like you said they are valuable little helpers.


Well, it was just my 2 cents of course.
Undeadline and Aleste 2 are moving a lot of stuff on screen (Even if they are just 16x16 sprites), more than what you usually see on Amiga games. Undeadline also is running on a constant slowdown state, so I don't know if it should count anyway .


Of course you can do great games with few resources, the Spectrum never stops amazing me on that regard, that machine is a piece of junk for gaming and still you had lots of great games on it.

And of course HW sprites are valuable, It's better to have them limited as they are than not having antything at all.
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Old 04 November 2019, 15:32   #24
Jack Burton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
Undeadline and Aleste 2 are moving a lot of stuff on screen (Even if they are just 16x16 sprites), more than what you usually see on Amiga games. Undeadline also is running on a constant slowdown state, so I don't know if it should count anyway .
Yes, you are right, Aleste 2 is smooth, fast, and moves a lot of stuff, but it's in 16 colors.

As far as I understand it, to get the max performance out of an Amiga you need to use 16 colors (or less). I asked once to an Amiga demo coder if he could give me an estimation about the number of 16x16 BOBs (in 8 colors) the Blitter could move at 50 fps when using a 16 colors display mode. He answered me that it should be, roughly, around 80 16x16 BOBs (8 colors BOBs). It's not bad at all. Add to that some (limited) HW sprites that can help a little too. So I guess some MSX2 games like Aleste 2 should be (almost) doable.

But maybe I was a bit misled by Mega Typhoon in this case, after all.


Quote:
Of course you can do great games with few resources, the Spectrum never stops amazing me on that regard, that machine is a piece of junk for gaming and still you had lots of great games on it.
Indeed.
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Old 04 November 2019, 16:10   #25
BippyM
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I have just looked at a longplay of aleste 2 and say Swiv is similar. I think an amiga could handle that game, especially when employing sprite tricks etc



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
Yes, you are right, Aleste 2 is smooth, fast, and moves a lot of stuff, but it's in 16 colors.

As far as I understand it, to get the max performance out of an Amiga you need to use 16 colors (or less). I asked once to an Amiga demo coder if he could give me an estimation about the number of 16x16 BOBs (in 8 colors) the Blitter could move at 50 fps when using a 16 colors display mode. He answered me that it should be, roughly, around 80 16x16 BOBs (8 colors BOBs). It's not bad at all. Add to that some (limited) HW sprites that can help a little too. So I guess some MSX2 games like Aleste 2 should be (almost) doable.

But maybe I was a bit misled by Mega Typhoon in this case, after all.


Indeed.
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Old 04 November 2019, 18:23   #26
roondar
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Amiga sprites work very well in vertical shooters: you can often make the player and/or all of the player bullets into sprites, or alternatively make all enemy bullets sprites. Both work fit the hardware quite well as it's not usually a real detriment to be limited to 8 bullets on a scanline given the 'free' vertical multiplexing.

SWIV does this: all player bullets are sprites and it displays quite a few of them.
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Old 04 November 2019, 21:16   #27
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Does apano sin do the same thing as mega typhoon? That game has slightly less moving objects. But it is in high resolution, and it has copper gradients mixed in in the background. Its very spectacular, with an unique graphical look. Even today. Not very good game though.


[ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by donnie; 04 November 2019 at 21:33.
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Old 04 November 2019, 21:30   #28
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To be quite honest I really think a *competent* coder could do Aleste 2 on Amiga without trouble. (I am not competent so do not look at me ) Mega Typhoon pushes more/bigger stuff on screen, and even though its running on Dual Playfield mode and it looks ugly as hell, I am sure with a good artist it could still make it look as good as Aleste 2 on MSX.

Aleste 2 on Amiga, exactly as it is on MSX, would be a killer shoot'em up. Like you, I also came from the MSX2+ when I got an Amiga, and I always say that while I was quickly in love with the Amiga, I really missed good shoot'em ups on it.

Space Manbow, Zanac EX, both Aleste games, Super Laydock and Laydock 2, the Gradius games... all those games would be great additions to the Amiga library, and most of them could even be upgraded on Amiga (if comparing to their MSX counterparts).

Most of those games also had lots of slowdown on the MSX. That's something japanese devs were never afraid of.... let your game slowdown if it will still be an amazing gameplay setpiece. Ron Pieket understood that and also let Swiv slowdown at points, but most Amiga coders would refrain in terror if they saw their games dropping a frame
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Old 04 November 2019, 22:04   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post

Aleste 2 on Amiga, exactly as it is on MSX, would be a killer shoot'em up. Like you, I also came from the MSX2+ when I got an Amiga, and I always say that while I was quickly in love with the Amiga, I really missed good shoot'em ups on it.
Reshoor Proxima is going that direction btw, beside having the screen a bit wider, but looks like having Soldier Blade in my opinion would be a good replacement: that game is awesome and has a very similar gameplay!!!

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 04 November 2019, 23:35   #30
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With Quasarius Rush I'm trying to get the Aleste/Zanac vibe, but with some complex score system on top (Compile games were notorious for having stupid socre systems )

[ Show youtube player ]

But this won't be ready before 2020 if I am lucky (2021 probably a more realistic deadline)
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Old 05 November 2019, 00:20   #31
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Has a nice Star Force/xevious vibe that i love
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Old 05 November 2019, 02:46   #32
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Has a nice Star Force/xevious vibe that i love
Thank you Star Force is a target to achieve for me , I am a really really big fan of it
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Old 05 November 2019, 19:31   #33
Jack Burton
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Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
and even though its running on Dual Playfield mode and it looks ugly as hell, I am sure with a good artist it could still make it look as good as Aleste 2 on MSX.
I've always wondered if it would be possible to hack Mega Typhoon in order to replace the tiles with new ones (redrawn).


Quote:
Aleste 2 on Amiga, exactly as it is on MSX, would be a killer shoot'em up. Like you, I also came from the MSX2+ when I got an Amiga, and I always say that while I was quickly in love with the Amiga, I really missed good shoot'em ups on it.

Space Manbow, Zanac EX, both Aleste games, Super Laydock and Laydock 2, the Gradius games... all those games would be great additions to the Amiga library, and most of them could even be upgraded on Amiga (if comparing to their MSX counterparts).
Exactly.

BTW there was a rumor (published on retropc.net in July of 2015) that the japanese game company ZOOM had planned to convert the game Phalanx for the Amiga in the past.
Quote:
??ZOOM???AMIGA? PHALANX ????????????????????????????

The kind of news that have the effect of a hammer blow on the head when you read it !


Quote:
Most of those games also had lots of slowdown on the MSX. That's something japanese devs were never afraid of.... let your game slowdown if it will still be an amazing gameplay setpiece. Ron Pieket understood that and also let Swiv slowdown at points, but most Amiga coders would refrain in terror if they saw their games dropping a frame
Yes, personally, slowdowns don't bother me much (after all, even NeoGeo games can have some slowdowns) OTOH, for me, gameplay really matters.

Last edited by Jack Burton; 05 November 2019 at 19:35. Reason: japanese text works on the preview but not in the post ???
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Old 05 November 2019, 19:37   #34
Jack Burton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
With Quasarius Rush I'm trying to get the Aleste/Zanac vibe, but with some complex score system on top (Compile games were notorious for having stupid socre systems )

[ Show youtube player ]

But this won't be ready before 2020 if I am lucky (2021 probably a more realistic deadline)

Looks promising !
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Old 05 November 2019, 19:48   #35
Jack Burton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saimon69 View Post
Reshoor Proxima is going that direction btw, beside having the screen a bit wider, but looks like having Soldier Blade in my opinion would be a good replacement: that game is awesome and has a very similar gameplay!!!

[ Show youtube player ]

Gunhed (designed by Compile, who made... Aleste 2 on the MSX2 !) and Soldier Blade were my 2 favorite shoot 'em up on the PCE. Bought them shortly after their release back then. There were very good seu on the PCE CD-ROM too, but I didn't have it unfortunately, it was way too expensive for me.
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