A1200 DKB Cobra Hard Drive Speed.

dabone · 11 February 2010, 03:24

I've got a Commodore A1200 rev 1d.3 with a DKB Cobra (68030RC @ 40Mhz)
With the cobra installed my hard drive speed is reported at 1,175,553.
When I put in the M1230XA I got today (68030EC @ 40MHZ)
the hd speed is 2,215,301.

Why is the cobra soo much slower that the m1230xa?
I would just use the 1230 but it has issues with some whdload games.

The cobra was clocked at 33mhz last week, but tonight I changed the crystal to 40. That took the hd from just over 800,000 to the current speed.

Thanks.
later,
dabone

Zetr0 · 11 February 2010, 09:00

@dabone

If I am not mistaken the DKB Cobra requires a firmware update to work properly with Kickstart 3.1

insofar as IDE speeds from the motherboard there are a lot of factors here, however thats quite a gap in performance to be sincerely honest and it may be the start of somthing sinister -

All accelerator cards have to wait to talk to the motherboard and custom chips, different cards have different speeds of logic, as such this will either improve or slow up the communication between the mobo and the card -

A typical example is an Apollo 030 Mk3 @ 40 mhz is (upto) 10% faster when copying fast ram to chip ram -

this doens't mean its a faster or better processor when compared to a Blizzard of the same frequency, it just means theres either faster logic latching and loading times -

remember that some motherboards also have timming issues and these can interact and compound what would normally be a minor problem into a much larger one -

However most of the time when we compare processor cards of the same ilk (say 030's of the same frequency) then we normally expect a small varience but at most I would expect a maximum of say 15% -

Your report here suggest as close to 50% slower in IDE access - this is absurd (no not your report lol I totally believe your statement, I am on about the DKB performance) as such this leads me to believe that there could be a problem with the DKB -

Others would be better to advise you, there are some things to try, including timming fixes to the motherboard

I am curious to know why you would have WHDLoad issues with one 030 card but not the other.... this indeedis very curious.

I will say that my Apollo Mk3 030@40mhz with 64MB 60ns RAM could only push 1.78MB on the native IDE, where as my Apollo 060 will push between 2.0 to 2.16 on a good day.

Personally I would try to source a DKB Ferret SCSI adapter - this would give you up to 2.8 MB/s transfer speed -

I am not overly sure but its possible that the DKB Ferret is DMA - as such this will provide upto 2.8MB per sec with next to no CPU load (a very yummy thing indeed) - but try and get some reports from others first.

So - in essence my only advice is really to seek some one else with a DKB Cobra to compare numbers =)

good luck

dabone · 11 February 2010, 10:59

Ok, don't want to go scsi if I don't have to.
Would the fast ata atapters like the FastATA 1200 MK-III IDE Interface do the same kind of job?

Next question. I couldn't find any timing fixes for the 1d.3 motherboards.
Am I looking in the wrong place?

And lastly, I'll check on the rom upgrade. I thought that if it wasn't done that the ram wouldn't be seen. (My card sees ram just fine, put anywhere from a 2 to 32 meg stick in and it autoconfigures)

Thanks,
later,
dabone

gulliver · 11 February 2010, 11:55

Just to tell you that the FastATA will make harddisk transfers really fast (at about 8MB/s). The problem is like @Zetro said previously, you will have to say goodbye to multitasking when accessing drives. This is because the FastATA will eat your cpu cycles at an atrocious 90%.
That is why Zetro recomended you go the scsi route, with it you can reach fast transfer rates and still have like 90% of the cpu free for other tasks.

My 0.02

Matt020 · 11 February 2010, 15:07

Can the system boot from a scsi hdd connected to the scsi port on an a1200 accellerato card?

if so, can the IDE internal drive be removed from the a1200?

fc.studio · 11 February 2010, 16:30

About speed, I don't know why SYSInfo with same Blizzard 1230/IV in the same A1200 reports different (enough slower) MIPS values when I load the tool from floppy drive instead from HD.

Jope · 11 February 2010, 19:21

Depends on your screenmode..

rkauer · 11 February 2010, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt020

Can the system boot from a scsi hdd connected to the scsi port on an a1200 accellerato card?

if so, can the IDE internal drive be removed from the a1200?

Pending if SCSI controller have auto-boot feature, just install an IDE terminator/killer (look in Aminet) and then you'll have a very fast Amiga.

dabone · 12 February 2010, 02:01

Ok, I've had some more time to play today.
I'm running classicwb 3.1 advsp using the patched scsi.device for large hard drive support. I didn't think a patched scsi.device would make this big of a difference.

Here are some benchmarks.

40 Gb Hitachi HD
ks 3.1 scsi.device v40.12
2037388
Patched scsi.device v43.23 (128GB)
1228800
Patched scsi.device v43.24 (128GB)
1238475

4GB Compact Flash (Sandisk Ultra II)
KS 3.1 scsi.device v40.12
1913459
Patched scsi.device v43.23 (128GB)
1161642
Patched scsi.device v43.24 (128GB)
1168546

Apparently my DKB Cobra doesn't get along with the patches applied to the scsi device. So now I'm back on the one built into ks 3.1 and running over a meg a second faster than I was last week.
(had to give up the 40gb, but I'll deal)

Later,
dabone

dabone · 12 February 2010, 04:28

Ok, one last update.

Grabbed a copy of idefix-97 and NDS patch.
Now every thing is full speed and working correctly with my 40gb drive.
It's partitioned as a 605Mb boot drive, 7450MB Game Drive, 8121 Data Drive.

It's a huge difference in performance!

So here it is for the search engines...

DKB Cobra slow patched scsi.device

To fix use idefix-97 with nds patch instead of the patched scsi.device
v42.23 or v42.24

Later,
dabone

jimbob · 22 December 2012, 00:10

Time to awaken this thread as I'm having a simliar problem with this card. I have the magnum wizard badged version with 40MHz ec030, 33MHz FPU and 128MB RAM.

I have just put in KS3.1 to see if the firmware has been updated and the RAM works so I guess it has.

However HD speed is pretty dire with 3.0 ROM and 3.1 ROM. At the moment I am using scsi.device version 40.12 which I gather is the upatched version from the ROM but sysinfo reports 1, 287, 122 B/s. I think that only just beats a stock A600.

That is with a PFS3 Cf card. FFS HD was even slower ~1MB/s. This is similar performance as dabone reported above with patched devices and not as good as the decent speeds he reported using the same unpatched scsi device.

Looking at this page -

http://amiga.resource.cx/perf/sysspe...cobra&order=rc

it seems like this card has pretty poor communication with the motherboard. It is the only card in those tests which actually has worse chip RAM performance than a stock A1200.

So my questions is, what gives with this card, grrr, and also can I apply dabones solution when using PFS3, if so how do I do it, I'm a bit clueless when it comes to patching ROM devices and so forth.

sneeker · 22 December 2012, 17:51

If the card see's the ram, then the firmware hasn't been updated.

This is why I didnt do the update to mine, the update allows pcmcia to work, by disabling the ram

as it is it works fine with 3.1 but with >4mb on the card the pcmcia stops working.

Anyway with a 4gb kingston card in mine, with a 28mhz 030, scsi.device 37.64 and ffs I get 1,163,360..

I'll see if I can improve on that though.

jimbob · 22 December 2012, 19:32

Ok, I maybe got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the card failed to detect RAM properly when using KS3.1 without the update. I haven't tried PCMCIA since I put in KS3.1

Sysinfo also gives the RAM node name as DKB1240 which I thought was another indication that the firmware had been updated. I'll check PCMCIA function.

EDIT: Sure you're talking about the same card sneeker? I have PCMCIA and 128MB RAM both working fine on KS3.1. Slow HD is the only problem.

sneeker · 14 February 2013, 19:41

Further to this, Ive just changed amigas, to an escom 1200 with 3.1, Now with my old amiga, kickstart 3.0 everything worked, with the new 1200 it also works fine, see's all the ram, and pcmcia works fine as well, used my squirrel scsi and also a pcmcia cf card reader and they both work ok

11 February 2010, 03:24	#1
dabone Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chattanooga TN, USA Posts: 109	A1200 DKB Cobra Hard Drive Speed. I've got a Commodore A1200 rev 1d.3 with a DKB Cobra (68030RC @ 40Mhz) With the cobra installed my hard drive speed is reported at 1,175,553. When I put in the M1230XA I got today (68030EC @ 40MHZ) the hd speed is 2,215,301. Why is the cobra soo much slower that the m1230xa? I would just use the 1230 but it has issues with some whdload games. The cobra was clocked at 33mhz last week, but tonight I changed the crystal to 40. That took the hd from just over 800,000 to the current speed. Thanks. later, dabone

22 December 2012, 19:32	#13
jimbob Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kilmacolm Age: 45 Posts: 632	Ok, I maybe got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the card failed to detect RAM properly when using KS3.1 without the update. I haven't tried PCMCIA since I put in KS3.1 Sysinfo also gives the RAM node name as DKB1240 which I thought was another indication that the firmware had been updated. I'll check PCMCIA function. EDIT: Sure you're talking about the same card sneeker? I have PCMCIA and 128MB RAM both working fine on KS3.1. Slow HD is the only problem. Last edited by jimbob; 22 December 2012 at 20:49.

14 February 2013, 19:41	#14
sneeker Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Manchester! Posts: 308	Further to this, Ive just changed amigas, to an escom 1200 with 3.1, Now with my old amiga, kickstart 3.0 everything worked, with the new 1200 it also works fine, see's all the ram, and pcmcia works fine as well, used my squirrel scsi and also a pcmcia cf card reader and they both work ok Last edited by sneeker; 14 February 2013 at 19:52. Reason: New Update as I tried more stuff :D

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11 February 2010, 09:00	#2
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@dabone If I am not mistaken the DKB Cobra requires a firmware update to work properly with Kickstart 3.1 insofar as IDE speeds from the motherboard there are a lot of factors here, however thats quite a gap in performance to be sincerely honest and it may be the start of somthing sinister - All accelerator cards have to wait to talk to the motherboard and custom chips, different cards have different speeds of logic, as such this will either improve or slow up the communication between the mobo and the card - A typical example is an Apollo 030 Mk3 @ 40 mhz is (upto) 10% faster when copying fast ram to chip ram - this doens't mean its a faster or better processor when compared to a Blizzard of the same frequency, it just means theres either faster logic latching and loading times - remember that some motherboards also have timming issues and these can interact and compound what would normally be a minor problem into a much larger one - However most of the time when we compare processor cards of the same ilk (say 030's of the same frequency) then we normally expect a small varience but at most I would expect a maximum of say 15% - Your report here suggest as close to 50% slower in IDE access - this is absurd (no not your report lol I totally believe your statement, I am on about the DKB performance) as such this leads me to believe that there could be a problem with the DKB - Others would be better to advise you, there are some things to try, including timming fixes to the motherboard I am curious to know why you would have WHDLoad issues with one 030 card but not the other.... this indeedis very curious. I will say that my Apollo Mk3 030@40mhz with 64MB 60ns RAM could only push 1.78MB on the native IDE, where as my Apollo 060 will push between 2.0 to 2.16 on a good day. Personally I would try to source a DKB Ferret SCSI adapter - this would give you up to 2.8 MB/s transfer speed - I am not overly sure but its possible that the DKB Ferret is DMA - as such this will provide upto 2.8MB per sec with next to no CPU load (a very yummy thing indeed) - but try and get some reports from others first. So - in essence my only advice is really to seek some one else with a DKB Cobra to compare numbers =) good luck

11 February 2010, 10:59	#3
dabone Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chattanooga TN, USA Posts: 109	Ok, don't want to go scsi if I don't have to. Would the fast ata atapters like the FastATA 1200 MK-III IDE Interface do the same kind of job? Next question. I couldn't find any timing fixes for the 1d.3 motherboards. Am I looking in the wrong place? And lastly, I'll check on the rom upgrade. I thought that if it wasn't done that the ram wouldn't be seen. (My card sees ram just fine, put anywhere from a 2 to 32 meg stick in and it autoconfigures) Thanks, later, dabone

11 February 2010, 11:55	#4
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	Just to tell you that the FastATA will make harddisk transfers really fast (at about 8MB/s). The problem is like @Zetro said previously, you will have to say goodbye to multitasking when accessing drives. This is because the FastATA will eat your cpu cycles at an atrocious 90%. That is why Zetro recomended you go the scsi route, with it you can reach fast transfer rates and still have like 90% of the cpu free for other tasks. My 0.02

11 February 2010, 15:07	#5
Matt020 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: West Australia Age: 47 Posts: 210	Can the system boot from a scsi hdd connected to the scsi port on an a1200 accellerato card? if so, can the IDE internal drive be removed from the a1200?

11 February 2010, 16:30	#6
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	About speed, I don't know why SYSInfo with same Blizzard 1230/IV in the same A1200 reports different (enough slower) MIPS values when I load the tool from floppy drive instead from HD.

11 February 2010, 19:21	#7
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Depends on your screenmode..

12 February 2010, 02:01	#9
dabone Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chattanooga TN, USA Posts: 109	Ok, I've had some more time to play today. I'm running classicwb 3.1 advsp using the patched scsi.device for large hard drive support. I didn't think a patched scsi.device would make this big of a difference. Here are some benchmarks. 40 Gb Hitachi HD ks 3.1 scsi.device v40.12 2037388 Patched scsi.device v43.23 (128GB) 1228800 Patched scsi.device v43.24 (128GB) 1238475 4GB Compact Flash (Sandisk Ultra II) KS 3.1 scsi.device v40.12 1913459 Patched scsi.device v43.23 (128GB) 1161642 Patched scsi.device v43.24 (128GB) 1168546 Apparently my DKB Cobra doesn't get along with the patches applied to the scsi device. So now I'm back on the one built into ks 3.1 and running over a meg a second faster than I was last week. (had to give up the 40gb, but I'll deal) Later, dabone

12 February 2010, 04:28	#10
dabone Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chattanooga TN, USA Posts: 109	Ok, one last update. Grabbed a copy of idefix-97 and NDS patch. Now every thing is full speed and working correctly with my 40gb drive. It's partitioned as a 605Mb boot drive, 7450MB Game Drive, 8121 Data Drive. It's a huge difference in performance! So here it is for the search engines... DKB Cobra slow patched scsi.device To fix use idefix-97 with nds patch instead of the patched scsi.device v42.23 or v42.24 Later, dabone

22 December 2012, 00:10	#11
jimbob Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kilmacolm Age: 45 Posts: 632	Time to awaken this thread as I'm having a simliar problem with this card. I have the magnum wizard badged version with 40MHz ec030, 33MHz FPU and 128MB RAM. I have just put in KS3.1 to see if the firmware has been updated and the RAM works so I guess it has. However HD speed is pretty dire with 3.0 ROM and 3.1 ROM. At the moment I am using scsi.device version 40.12 which I gather is the upatched version from the ROM but sysinfo reports 1, 287, 122 B/s. I think that only just beats a stock A600. That is with a PFS3 Cf card. FFS HD was even slower ~1MB/s. This is similar performance as dabone reported above with patched devices and not as good as the decent speeds he reported using the same unpatched scsi device. Looking at this page - http://amiga.resource.cx/perf/sysspe...cobra&order=rc it seems like this card has pretty poor communication with the motherboard. It is the only card in those tests which actually has worse chip RAM performance than a stock A1200. So my questions is, what gives with this card, grrr, and also can I apply dabones solution when using PFS3, if so how do I do it, I'm a bit clueless when it comes to patching ROM devices and so forth.

22 December 2012, 17:51	#12
sneeker Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Manchester! Posts: 308	If the card see's the ram, then the firmware hasn't been updated. This is why I didnt do the update to mine, the update allows pcmcia to work, by disabling the ram as it is it works fine with 3.1 but with >4mb on the card the pcmcia stops working. Anyway with a 4gb kingston card in mine, with a 28mhz 030, scsi.device 37.64 and ffs I get 1,163,360.. I'll see if I can improve on that though.

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