Discussion about the cost and value of new Amiga games and whether they are overcharged or not!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Then quite obviously, you need to find a more competitive alternative to Digistore24.

That was just an "excuse example" that Richard used; as he knows the "20 - 45%" take is quite high with this distributor. Most definitely not the norm, but it obviously suited his agenda in this discussion

Richard doesn't use them; all his productions are advertised free across all Amiga forums / websites, but sold via Amiga Future / APC&TCP

...be it the game, soundtrack, poster or mouse mat.

Personally, I'm waiting for the "Reshoot" tattoo to appear for sale

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

I may be able to shed some light on this.

The first thing you have to take into account is Inflation, in 1992 £14 is the equivalent to £25 in today's prices, and £25 in 1992 is £45.

https://www.inflationtool.com/britis...e?amount=25.00

Here's the forecasts I did for the Rygar boxes:

Product (inc. VAT) £5.21 50 £260.50
Shipping and CIF £101.59 1 £101.59
Total £362.09
Duty @11% £46.00
Foam £1.00 £50.00
Envelopes £0.36 £18.00
Total Delivered Cost £476.09
Price per box £9.52

Now that doesn't include a manual, the floppy disks or the labels. So you can safely add about £4.00 to the price per game box.

£13.50 to produce a Frontier 2 sized box which if I'm honest, anything else just won't do as there's no point.

Now what is the real kicker is the delivery and distribution costs, unless you use a distributor who'll take a hefty cut, delivering into Europe is about £6 un-tracked, £10 tracked, outside of Europe costs more... like £13.

So before you even start you're looking at £15-£20 just to get the box delivered to the customer based on small numbers (50).

Now to code a game takes a long time, it took me a year to do Rygar and it's well documented, 6 months to do Bomb Jack, but did I do for the money? ... if I did I would be completely skint.

So what do I think is fair...? If a game is good people will buy it/support the devs/community, if it's bad people won't buy it (Iron Gate/Amiten shite)...or at least they won't buy it in decent numbers (At least 100+)

For me I would be well happy if I made £1,000 a year from making Amiga games, any money I made from Rygar I fed back into the Amiga and the community.

So I think for a well made game that took 6-9 months to create then on digital download people should be paying around £5 to £10, if they want a shiny box delivered around the World then it should be circa £30.

Don't forget - games is not just about the coder...the entire team should be paid depending on the circumstances.

Geezer

Get me a Boxed Rygar and I'll buy it, seriously

I can appreciate the effort people like you go to to create these games, bringing all the pieces together must be a real headache at times and we never really see or hear that, just the updates and final product, so the 'behind the scenes' glimpse is refreshing, just wonder how many others will be so transparent?

I do buy a fair few Amiga/C64 homebrew/indie games so I do pay 'whatever' they are priced at (except 'crowd funding' as I hate that) but i'm starting to spend too much trying to support these projects due to the points you raise, ever increasing costs which have to be passed onto the customer as you don't have the resources of a 'AAA' game studio to soak up distribution/development costs. I guess that's why there are only a handful of people willing to go to that effort to bring their ideas to the Amiga community?

Thanks for your valued contribution to this issue mcgeezer

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by BarryB

Get me a Boxed Rygar and I'll buy it, seriously

Considering there are only 10 made and these are as rare as hen's teeth... you can have mine for £500 BarryB

Of course I'm only joking; I'll never sell it

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by DamienD

That was just an "excuse example" that Richard used; as he knows the "20 - 45%" take is quite high with this distributor. Most definitely not the norm, but it obviously suited his agenda in this discussion

Richard doesn't use them; all his productions are advertised free across all Amiga forums / websites, but sold via Amiga Future / APC&TCP

...be it the game, soundtrack, poster or mouse mat.

Personally, I'm waiting for the "Reshoot" tattoo to appear for sale

I will await this tattoo, I'm thinking of a gaming arm to match my superhero arm

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Considering there are only 10 made and these are as rare as hen's teeth... you can have mine for £500 BarryB

Of course I'm only joking; I'll never sell it

And of course you're only over valuing it

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Considering there are only 10 made and these are as rare as hen's teeth... you can have mine for £500 BarryB

Of course I'm only joking; I'll never sell it

I dunno.... there's one going on Ebay for £770 and going....

and I have a long pokey nose.[/COLOR

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by BarryB

And of course you're only over valuing it

Oh, is the price not in-line with other certain Amiga Devs being discussed here?

Thought it was, and obviously took into consideration the same ludicrous factors that they did

...and you have to remember that there are only 10 ever made so; RARE, RARE, RARE!!!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

So I think for a well made game that took 6-9 months to create then on digital download people should be paying around £5 to £10, if they want a shiny box delivered around the World then it should be circa £30.

Graeme, your points are all very valid indeed

Please don't be confused by Richard's pricing though; all his products definitely exclude shipping costs... these are extra, and passed onto the consumer after adding into the basket / at point of sale

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

I may be able to shed some light on this.

The first thing you have to take into account is Inflation, in 1992 £14 is the equivalent to £25 in today's prices, and £25 in 1992 is £45.

https://www.inflationtool.com/britis...e?amount=25.00

Here's the forecasts I did for the Rygar boxes:

Product (inc. VAT) £5.21 50 £260.50
Shipping and CIF £101.59 1 £101.59
Total £362.09
Duty @11% £46.00
Foam £1.00 £50.00
Envelopes £0.36 £18.00
Total Delivered Cost £476.09
Price per box £9.52

Now that doesn't include a manual, the floppy disks or the labels. So you can safely add about £4.00 to the price per game box.

£13.50 to produce a Frontier 2 sized box which if I'm honest, anything else just won't do as there's no point.

Now what is the real kicker is the delivery and distribution costs, unless you use a distributor who'll take a hefty cut, delivering into Europe is about £6 un-tracked, £10 tracked, outside of Europe costs more... like £13.

So before you even start you're looking at £15-£20 just to get the box delivered to the customer based on small numbers (50).

Now to code a game takes a long time, it took me a year to do Rygar and it's well documented, 6 months to do Bomb Jack, but did I do for the money? ... if I did I would be completely skint.

So what do I think is fair...? If a game is good people will buy it/support the devs/community, if it's bad people won't buy it (Iron Gate/Amiten shite)...or at least they won't buy it in decent numbers (At least 100+)

For me I would be well happy if I made £1,000 a year from making Amiga games, any money I made from Rygar I fed back into the Amiga and the community.

So I think for a well made game that took 6-9 months to create then on digital download people should be paying around £5 to £10, if they want a shiny box delivered around the World then it should be circa £30.

Don't forget - games is not just about the coder...the entire team should be paid depending on the circumstances.

Geezer

This!

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Please don't be confused by Richard's pricing though; all his products definitely exclude shipping costs... these are extra, and passed onto the consumer after adding into the basket / at point of sale

I didn't know that, and if that's the case then I can only agree it's a hefty price.

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Oh, is the price not in-line with other certain Amiga Devs being discussed here?

Thought it was, and obviously took into consideration the same ludicrous factors that they did

...and you have to remember that there are only 10 ever made so; RARE, RARE, RARE!!!

Lol, now you're getting the hang of this valuation malarky

It's also the standard ebay tactic, put RARE in the title and see the bids roll in

[NeoHippie2016]

If someone not willing to pay the full price for a game, the creator spend much time to creating their products! Buy it or not! End of discussion...

[DamienD]

It's not about that NeoHippie2016; of course we can all decide whether to either purchase or not...

...and I imagine as others have already mentioned in regards to Rotator or Matchic; they definitely won't.

This thread is related to the unrealistic prices being set by a small minority of greedy Game Developers who overvalue their games to the Nth degree; without any valid reason.

If this continues, then others follow suit... and as is now clear, others are already jumping on the bandwagon and following a certain person's lead.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by DamienD

If this continues, then others follow suit... and as is now clear, others are already jumping on the bandwagon and following a certain person's lead.

and when they are reviewed, the reviewer will often view the game through rose tinted glasses, and praise it, even if the game is poor (I am not stating any of these will be poor).



Retrogaming has become mainstream due to social media and the likes of the average joe being able to jump on the band wagon. This has brought out the developers who are hoping to use that inexperience, gullible, nostalgia to push out new games at modern day retail prices!


There isn't an Amiga game on this planet I would pay more than £10 for., I genuinely don't think any new Amiga game would keep my interest long enough to warrant the higher prices.. But that is me!


At the end of the day, it is like anything.. Once it goes mainstream, the leeches move in. Once this retro bubble burts, things will hopefully settle down.. I hope users vote with their wallets!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by BippyM

and when they are reviewed, the reviewer will often view the game through rose tinted glasses, and praise it, even if the game is poor (I am not stating any of these will be poor).

Ain't that the truth BippyM, really funny that you should mention that

Recently there was an anniversary "Amiga Joker" released. Guess what game topped the charts; Reshoot R.

...and Rygar: The Legendary Warrior was slated as being "unoriginal" and "just a port"; Graeme knows this after getting the article translated from German to English. You can find the discussion somewhere on EAB.

Now, also take a guess who the chief editor / game reviewer of this magazine is? Yup that's right, none other than Richard Lowenstein.

Coincidence, you decide?

Funny that his own game was best and obviously no bias applied; that's some clever marketing right there and bound to bring in a few more sales

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Ain't that the truth BippyM, really funny that you should mention that

Recently there was an anniversary "Amiga Joker" released. Guess what game topped the charts; Reshoot R.

...and Rygar: The Legendary Warrior was slated being "unoriginal" and "just a port"; Graeme know this.

Also take a guess who the author of this magazine and Reshoot R is; none other than Richard Lowenstein.

That's some clever marketing right there

Unreal isn't it.

[BarryB]

This POLL about new Amiga games suggests $20 is what the majority of voters would pay!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by BarryB

This POLL about new Amiga games suggests $20 is what the majority of voters would pay!

Very interesting; sounds about correct, and fair in this 30 year old Amiga market.

I had to laugh with this comment from Predseda:

Originally Posted by Predseda

I have paid for a lot of recent games that have been released commercially or at least in boxed collectors edition, so I WOULD pay for it. On the other hand, it really depends on the game and maybe even the genre. I would buy Powerglove, I wouldn't buy Reshoot.

Let me guess, "Reshoot" way too expensive for what it is? I purchased this; and that's my honest opinion. Same with "Reshoot R"...

If the price was more realistic i.e. halved; would you then consider purchasing?

[Predseda]

I like ReshootR, i do not like Reshoot. But I am mostly into platformers.

[nikosidis]

Sorry, but how old the market is does not give any indication of the price of anything.
Sure the quality does. I can not imagine anyone buying Amiga pacman clone for 50£
Last but not least this is a very limited market. If you like to invest a quality game
for this market and survive the price must be high. A lot do this just for their own pleasure
and nostalgic reasons. This is shown with some of the best quality games done for the Amiga recent years.
Traprunner series and Gianna sisters remake. All free! I guess Gianna remake is like other quality releases
like Bombjack, beer edition and Rygar as they are not allowed to sell for copyright reasons.
The problem is that it is rare that quality like this come for free and do we want quality or do we want crap.